Instructor courses and the job

Rebrabuk

Just curious to the people who have done an instructors course and can or are working as an instructor how do you find it? I'm well aware the money is far from stellar and you more or less just make enough to live on but how does it fare as a way of life?

Does anyone move between hemispheres and literally follow the snow or stick to the same resort you already know and work there over the summer? How about finding work, if you are moving between Canada/NZ/Australia/Europe how much help can you really expect from employers with accommodation/visas(doesn't matter for EU).

In reality is it really a good idea to have it as your only qualifications for work, I have met several instructors and with the exception of one guy who is semi-pro and has setup his own school in england the vast majority all have some degree or trade along with their instructor cert and in fact really treat the instructor job as something on the side. One description I have heard for it is that it's a vocation and not a career is there really no way to progress in the job(I know there are different cert levels but not sure how much that improves your pay grade or chances of getting a job).

am i bovvered

Would love love and love to do it, and hopefully one day will. For now mortgages and teenagers to get rid of

Fattes

Rebrabuk; Right so here is the deal there is lots of options for everything from work to qualifications

Irish & British systems links are below. France is near impossible to get into the instructor system as is Italy (You have to pass your eurotest before you can do your level 1)

France only has one 2 levels Trainee and qualified

Allot of the others have levels 1-4 1 being entry level 4 being fully qualified.

Canadian and NZ & USA qualifications are not members of ISIA so outside of their respective countries they are not as recognised as they are in their home nations.

The Austrian ANDVWERT (Not sure about the spelling) is pants easy to get and only allows you to teach in Austria and you will end up with all the worst classes.

In France you probably could get bye with just the instructor job but outside of that you will have to have summer work lined up or have a second line of work.

Canadian employeers are quite good when it comes ot providing Visas etc but pay is crap and very few classes around in Jan and Feb.

This season has been very quite in some resorts and I know guys that have gone up to 5 weeks without a class

PM me if you have any question but I can promise you unless you find some secret everyone else has missed you wont be a rich man but you will be a happy man every morning


http://www.iasisnowsports.ie/index.php

http://www.basi.org.uk/courses.aspx

http://www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com/course_bookings.htm

paulharte

Switzerland is a great place to instruct. Pay is good, and they recognise a wide range of qualifications.

Rebrabuk, you should also tell us if you are interested in skiing or snowboarding, as the situation is a bit different for each one.

Rebrabuk

Snowboarding.

Thanks for all the info Fattes.

Main one I was looking at was to do a level 2 in New Zealand or Canada(could be bull but it did sound as though the SBINZ level 2 was better than the CASI) any idea how well recognised they would be? From what I had found out so far it hadn't sounded like there was a big issue with how well recognised your qualification would be with the exception of France/Japan(first I've heard of Italy!).

I know the money will be crap that's a given it's the lifestyle I'm after and a chance to get out of Ireland long-term.

Fattes

Rebrabuk; My advice was on skiing, boarder qualifications are pretty similar across the awarding bodies plus I have said it a million times its not the qualification its the person weilding it.

Work is getting tighter through resorts with the down turn etc I know people who have gone 4/5 weeks without work this year both borders and ski instructors.

But if you pick the right resorts especially ones with big boarding communites you will get work and will have plenty of people to hang with on your days off

paulharte

Ahoy reb,

I did my CASI in whistler, its super cool. It very focussed on teaching and your own riding, rather than peripheral stuff. Even if i had never taught snowboarding, its would have been a class experience on its own. They do fail ppl tho, esp if you don't do one of the long prep courses, just to warn you. BASI are not as likely to fail ppl, and the qualification is very well recognised.

The biggest advantage of the NZ qualification is the chance of an 'in' with the NZ hills. There are a lot of ppl who want to work there, and not many jobs, and its just best chance if you want to instruct in summer. Its very tough to get in there othewise. Plus you can go straight to the northern hemi and start instructed straight away!!

Fattes

Paul the Canadian system has a reputation for 100% which has a somewhat bad reflection on most ski schools

http://www.peakleaders.com/instructor_courses/Banff/1

I have seen BASI courses where eveyone has failed but I have never heard of any one fail the Canadian qualification exams.

I know its diffrent for Boarders but like I said does not matter what the paper says its all about the person that has it

earnyourturns

People fail the CASI exams quite regularly. Out of 6 of us in our CASI Level 1 class, 2 people failed and everyone always jokes about how you can do your Level 1 with your eyes closed. Level 2 is even more stringent and as for CASI Level 3 well even the shiz-hottest riders and best teachers in the world have difficulty with all five components of it.

robinph

Fattes wrote: »

Paul the Canadian system has a reputation for 100% which has a somewhat bad reflection on most ski schools

http://www.peakleaders.com/instructor_courses/Banff/1

The PeakLeaders course I did in New Zealand last year finished with 100% pass rate on level 1 for both the skiers and boarders. There were a number of people that had to re-take the level 1 ski though right before the end of the course and before then sitting the level 2. All of the people who took the level 1 and level 2 back to bak at the end of the course failed the level 2 though, and there were maybe the same number again that then failed the level 2 at that point as well. I don't think it was 100% on the boarder level 2 either but can't quite remember now.

The 100% pass claim is only possible because they have the people out there for so long that there is the chance to get everyone eventually up to the standard for level 1.

chillibruno

Hi All

One on the forum mods sent me this link. I am a ski instructor in Austria and NZ and have both countries qualifications. I did a lot of research on the courses beforehand and got some things right as well as a number of errors in hindsight.

In terms of international qualifications there is a big block of mostly English speaking countries where the qualification levels are fairly standard and recognised between each other. BASI (British), NZSIA (New Zealand), Canada (CASI), PSIA (America). I think IASI (Ireland) is similar but someone else locally may know better).
ALL of these have current ISIA membership.

These all have 4 levels of qualifications (Ski and Board) and I would advise anyone starting on this as a career to do a course that offers at least Level 2 to teach in the countries above. Level 3 take some time after Level 2 (time spent teaching 2+ seasons) and gets you your ISIA stamp which is important for a longer term career. There are so many course options you would be spoilt for choice - do the research on best provider once you decide on country.

When I did the NZ course I planned to go straight to the Northern Hemisphere to work. This is fine if you are UNDER 30 YEARS OLD (I am not). Why? because up to 30 you can get working holiday visa for US, Canada, Japan with loads of resorts. I would say you are almost guaranteed a job in the US/Canada with a level 2 qualification (or level 1 at times) and right to work already (Work Holiday Visa). The US do not have enough local instructors and the visa (H2B) that you need if you are over 30 is pretty impossible due to quotas.

So advice for those under 30 is do the NZSIA course (or BASI courses in South America) and get applying now (on the basis you pass) to US and Canadian resorts.

If you are over 30 DO NOT set all your expectations on a big English speaking resort. The best bet until all the visa mess over the pond is sorted is to work in Europe. This is where it gets difficult, Switzerland accept all the big qualifications above, BUT have very few jobs available. So you have two choices either go for a small emerging country (Poland, Bulgaria Andorra) or do a local qualification somewhere like France, or Austria.
Each of these have different systems, France is pretty impossible, you will need to speak good French and do a 2 year internship position. Austria is actually pretty easy and a lot of ski schools will support you to do the Anwarter (level 1) pre season to get you teaching in December. Apply to Austrian ski schools first saying you want to do this and see what they say. You will need some basic German and be prepared to learn skiing terms (although the examiners will help lots with this) I knew no German and passed the test after 10 days in Austria. After this I taught a range of levels from never skiied to strong parrallel skiers and kids in the snowpark.
Italy are a bit funny they let foreign qualifications work up to a certain amount of days in a season and have to supervise the work closely. I am not sure of the local Italian qualifications.

The post with the comment on an "in" for NZ resorts is dead right. I think I only got through the competition was previous experience with the resort. Remember this when doing the course as they do speak to your old trainer when you apply. I reckon this is the same whereever you train but NZ is high competition.

Hope thats not too much info all at once will try to keep an eye out for any questions as I dont use this forum much (being a bit of an English imposter:D)

paulharte

Fattes wrote: »

Paul the Canadian system has a reputation for 100% which has a somewhat bad reflection on most ski schools

http://www.peakleaders.com/instructor_courses/Banff/1

I have seen BASI courses where eveyone has failed but I have never heard of any one fail the Canadian qualification exams.

I know its diffrent for Boarders but like I said does not matter what the paper says its all about the person that has it

Fattes: i think you are mistaken here, the course you are looking at there is a season long deal where they prep you for the test, and they don't let you do it if they think you might fail. A separate company actually administer the tests. On my CASI one guy from england failed and one from the US. A guy I worked with in switz was the only one in his group to pass his level 2! (but then he can land 900s!)

You are right in that fringe things other than just having a qualification are important, such as competition results, if you have done any racing, etc.

Fattes

chillibrunoWelcome all of the below is based on not just my own but a large pool of British, Irish and one NZ instructor in Europe. All of it is based on skiers and is not Gospel but tends to be the. Up untill last year Level 1 BASI and IASI guys where getting teaching hours in Austria/Bulgaria/Sweden/Norway because they needed instructors.

There is a big diffrence in the standard required for NZSIA and IASI based on the videos posted here. Most of the stuff being demod would not get you a pass with IASI for leve 1 or 2 . This was done before in depth if you can find it.
http://www.nzsia.net/ski/gallery/videos/

It is almost impossible to get work in Europe with all but the highest PSIA (America) qualification. It is not recognised at all by France I know 2 people that have the level 2 equvelant and one did Basi and the other did IASI to get work in europe.

The IASI standard is a slightly ramped up version of the BASI the attitude being because it is a smaller organisation the standard has to be higher to get it noticed. There was an IASI level 2 course in Saas last year and the BASI guys thought the standard was at least there level 3 for 3 of the 5 people on the course.

The canadian qualification is not recognised at all in France,and for ski at least most of the other European nations look for Canadian Level 3(FOR SKIING) One thing the Cunnuks have nailed is there Race modules which are amazing and held in very high regard by all (But the French they hate everyone but the French:D)

The French pretty much only recognise BASI/ IASI/PSIA level 4 and Swiss qualified instructors as long as you have your Eurotest and your test Technique (Slalom race administered by the esf in resort). Most of the Basi Guys work for the likes of BASS and only a small minority get work with the ESF

France is impossible to get into their qualification system unless you are a local or you have got an ISIA Stamp already they are incredibly protective The 2 year internship is actually a once off (For ISIA holders going in)and you must pass all the modules and the exams required in that period. You only get one shot at it and if you have not completed everything within the time frame you are out.

Italy will allow you work up to 3 weeks with a local ski school normally administered through intersport but to get the Italian qualification you are required to pass your Eurotest just to get on the programme. No idea why you have to be within 10% of a world cup racer to teach but hey there the rules

Anwarter is completley usless outside of Austria The swiss dont even recognise it as a valid instructors qualification.,people using it for teaching tend to get a majority of kids and beginners classes and the local boys get the higher end stuff but if you do the training that the ski schools provide it is an awsome way to improve your skiing and will open doors for you and teach you German

Allot has changed in the last 2 years has seen a big tightening up of the availability of teaching jobs and the qualifications ski schools look for in Europe

The Irish will get a one year working visa for Canada up to 35 through USIT. There are still some left for this year.

This year has been incredibly difficult to get work in the US as a ski instructor as they have cut the number of Visas they are issuing due to the down turn.

Allot of smaller ski schools will be less difficult when it comes to the qualifications they require or ask for. Austria, Bulgaria,Spain (They love instructors that can speak English) are easy enough to get work.

This year there have been plenty of stories of guys getting work and only teaching for the peak periods (School Holidays Etc) and struggling with teaching hours for the rest of the season.

This is why this year has become a whole new ball game and ski schools can be picky about the people the choose to teach and why they are asking for diffrent and advanced qualifications.

But as I have said plenty of times. Its all about the individual and theri ability to teach and the standards they set for themelves