Tell me what you want!

shayleon

Making a special deal for rock bands. I was thinking:

3 tracks + mix
+ mastering by Aidan Foley (U2, Sinead O'Connor, Sony)
+ album graphic
All for €850. (based on 2 days at the studio which is enough time for most bands for 3-4 tracks)

Optional website (with graphic design) for extra €400.

What do you think?
Is there any other deal that you would like to have?
Do you see any flows in this offer?

Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks.
Shay.

PaulBrewer

Whilst I think separating yourself from the pack is important you may be opening a can of worms trying to get 3 or 4 tracks down and mixed in 2 days.

I think even a well seasoned band would struggle to get that amount of work done to an acceptable standard within that time frame..... and that's just playing - there would be very little, if any, time for trying ideas.

I guess my point is, that unless the product is good it's not the band who is 'bad' but the studio, from their point of view.

Might be worth a rethink ...

shayleon

Many thanks for your reply Paul

When I started, I had here a lot of young bands, and they usually came for 2 days, and we got 3-4 songs done. Obviously that does not allow time to melodyne everything, quantize drums, and finalise some corners, but it is enough time for a rather good sounding demo.

I'm afraid I had become a wee bit too expensive for these bands (or maybe it's just that there are more studios than bands) so came up with this, but I do appreciate your point, and will rethink.

I really wonder what bands have to say about this, and would like to hear what are they looking for.

I have a nice core of clients, but since I'm not running 24/7 and I suck at marketing, perhaps I can do some things better.

All the best.

S.

PaulBrewer

Perhaps that was the missing word Shay ....'Demo'

shayleon

Thanks!

shayleon

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Perhaps that was the missing word Shay ....'Demo'

P.S. just heard Michael Gira's album "I am not insane", and it's just guitar and vocals. One live take with a wee bit of reverb. I wouldn't call this a demo - it's AWESOME, and (to my opinion) puts Timberlake to shame (actually even the comparison is ridiculous!), so it's not always about freakin' precision and sterility.

OK.. I digress... sorry!

PaulBrewer

shayleon wrote: »

P.S. just heard Michael Gira's album "I am not insane", and it's just guitar and vocals. One live take with a wee bit of reverb. I wouldn't call this a demo - it's AWESOME, and (to my opinion) puts Timberlake to shame (actually even the comparison is ridiculous!), so it's not always about freakin' precision and sterility.

OK.. I digress... sorry!

True - but it's amateur bands we're talking about really isn't it ?

I have a Pepe Romero album from 1963 that is also mind blowing performance and sonically.

However that, I'd guess, is not a typical customer ?

seannash

im not too well versed in traditional recording but if i was looking to record a demo id be looking for the best sound i could afford.

i might not have a clue about equipment but even if the price was very reasonable i would still expect my recording to be on par with what you hear on the radio.

if you cant fulfil those sorts of expectations the customer will be dissapointed regardless of price.
id be more interested in hearing some recordings before id look at how expensive or cheap you are

(i know theres alot more factors that go into making a professional sounding recording and maybe the expectation of it being radio quality is a bit of an exaggeration but you kinda get what i mean)

Rockshamrover

seannash wrote: »

im not too well versed in traditional recording but if i was looking to record a demo id be looking for the best sound i could afford.

i might not have a clue about equipment but even if the price was very reasonable i would still expect my recording to be on par with what you hear on the radio.

if you cant fulfil those sorts of expectations the customer will be dissapointed regardless of price.
id be more interested in hearing some recordings before id look at how expensive or cheap you are

(i know theres alot more factors that go into making a professional sounding recording and maybe the expectation of it being radio quality is a bit of an exaggeration but you kinda get what i mean)

Very true. It's all about meeting heightened or even unreal expectations.

Great idea though to do the complete package.

studiorat

seannash wrote: »

im not too well versed in traditional recording but if i was looking to record a demo id be looking for the best sound i could afford.

i might not have a clue about equipment but even if the price was very reasonable i would still expect my recording to be on par with what you hear on the radio.

With all due respect, if a client was inexperienced enough to expect €600 demo of 3 songs to be on par with commercial radio playlists, I don't think the client could tell the difference at first.

In my experience amateur bands are usually quite happy with what they leave with doing 3 songs in a day or two...

I have a theory that when they listen to the finished tracks (even if they are god awful), they aren't actually hearing what's on tape, rather they are hearing the mental picture of the song they have painted in their head.
I call it cover song syndrome, people going to see a covers band are reminded of the original song so they are remembering that and the enjoyment they get from it inaddition to the performance infront of them.

I used to do it myself, you leave the studio delighted that the session went well and you got everything recorded, and delighted to be hearing yourself on tape. Listen to it a year later and you're thinking WTF?

Looking at the price on the OP and the extra expense and work involved I think it's too cheap. Do three months of those and you'd be kicking yourself you didn't charge a little more.

shayleon

Many thanks for your replies guys.

Rocksham and Sean - While the ideal client would be like yourself (I did have one project that took a month and it was very rewarding to reach such level of perfection), for many, budget is an issue, and sometimes even time is. I therefore tried to give something that is what I see as a good money/time deal.

Studiorat - with so many studios around, and me located in the middle of nowhere, I sometimes have to make extra effort. Hopefully I'll kick myself as you say, and then change the deal. I think of running it for 2 weeks and then revise.

Pity there is no feedback from more bands - it would be beneficial to know "what they want" (we only know what the client that show at the door want, but never what those who didn't).

cheers.

PMI

I see Shays side of things as alot of guys up this side are looking at the clock only, so explaining that the snare he brought should be swapped and lets draft in an old ludwig kick drum for this etc.. is NOT an option as they just want to setup and hit record.

In Ideal world we would all want a min of 2 days per track without mixing but you also have to remember that alot of bands that are recording shouldnt be so sometimes we have to just go through the motions.

seannash

studiorat wrote: »

With all due respect, if a client was inexperienced enough to expect €600 demo of 3 songs to be on par with commercial radio playlists, I don't think the client could tell the difference at first.

surely someone who doesnt know how difficult it is to achieve that sort of quality will expect it for there recordings.i do think amateurs will be able to recognise if it doesnt sound like whats on the radio.

shayleon

I think one can get decent quality in 2 days, but fair enough if you think differently.

People don't just record to be on the radio. A lot are doing recordings to get gigs, to put it on myspace and to show the world what they are about.

In fact, in Ireland, you rarely get on the radio, even if you have the best recording on the planet.

PaulBrewer

shayleon wrote: »

I think one can get decent quality in 2 days, but fair enough if you think differently.
.

It's invariably the Band who are the problem, not necessarily the studio.

But no matter who is to 'blame' - the problem remains.

It's very rare for all members of a typical band to be up to a recording standard with out time being put into it.

seannash

shayleon wrote: »

I think one can get decent quality in 2 days, but fair enough if you think differently.

People don't just record to be on the radio. A lot are doing recordings to get gigs, to put it on myspace and to show the world what they are about.

In fact, in Ireland, you rarely get on the radio, even if you have the best recording on the planet.

i didnt really mean to be on the radio.I meant that the overall sound of the recording should be up to scratch with other bands that you hear on the wireless.

I think thats what alot of people would expect.

High expectations i know

Welease

It's a good deal, I (as per the feedback) would just modify the elements of the deal..

Instead of stating "3 tracks + mix" which is always going to be open to interpretation and could be the source of arguements with clients who are slower at recording, why not reword to "2 days studio/mix time"... (indicate up to 3 songs could be recorded in that time).

The band graphic is a nice idea but again, what if I don't like what you do, will you continue to redo it for me? You need to bulletproof yourself a bit on this.

I think you are going down the right road with the value add (graphic, web site etc.) elements. I'm not going to go out into the arse end of nowhere to save 50 quid on recording, but I will if there were extra services that allowed me to package up my band for public consumption..

Maybe it's worth talking to local B&B's to see if a accomodation deal could be struck up (night out in Galway), or local pubs so the option of a gig is thrown in for bands etc. ..

Best of luck.

shayleon

Welease - many thanks for the ideas.

There is actually a deal with local B&B and a self-catering house.

Great feedback.

Appreciated guys.

Welease

shayleon wrote: »

Pity there is no feedback from more bands - it would be beneficial to know "what they want" (we only know what the client that show at the door want, but never what those who didn't).

You know this comment has been bugging me for a couple of hours (don't worry in a good way )..

(my primary business is developing new business, but for specific non music related areas, so pinch of salt with my comments).

You will never know why you lost business unless you make them so angry, they complain and they will probably never use you again.. or you make it worth their while to tell you (and lets be fair, you won't work for them for free, why would they work for you for free)..
We generally offer an incentive to take the time to give us feedback (and this is from employees lol), you could work out some draw for those who give reasonable feedback on the site of why they didnt use your services.. You could post out surveys to contacts asking for feedback and again run a draw or something. Multiple ways of getting feedback and increasing your contacts lists (for future promotions that they would be interested in).


Just my 2c.. (and i have had a couple of vino's so i may ramble )

Do you know your market? Do you have a target market?

When i look at all studio pages (not just yours), they don't seem to understand which market they are going for, and don't make me as a musician understand which of them I would use. So it will end up down to hearsay from friends/price/location. Those may not be sufficiently positive to make we want to drive half way across the country to record a tune I could record locally.

So why would I bother?

I would bother.. if i think the studio is best suited to what I want to do..

I personally love Dav's (?) Popstar image.. It's the only studio that seem clear on the type of client it is trying to attract (note: i dont know Popstar or have any affiliation, i just see when he used to post on here). He (and forgive me if i am wrong) seems to be targetting the Popstar/X Factor singer crowd, so focusses on what they need to understand and what would appeal to them. (I would love to see his figures, and how well this has served him). He focusses on what they need and what they will understand, as opposed to a mass of boring (to the average punter) list of cables the studio posseses..

All studios are equal (except cost and location) to 99% of musicians, so some will need to focus on the value add that attracts people. I think your web package is a great idea.. but being 100% honest (with respect), your web page is mid 1990's... its old, static, and looks like a Geocities template.
You may do a better web page for me, but I will judge your ability from the portal you present me.
People expect (fair or not) a much more professional feel from web pages nowadays (flash etc.), and you have to be fair they cannot be expected to pay your undoubted audio skills prices for your average web skills (and i dont mean to offend).

I think you are right on track with the value add.. I would hone in on a specific market (weekend away in Galway, Singers/backing tracks, Young broke bands, Professional bands, Specific genre), understand what they are interested in (it won't effect your current clients).. market to their interests (and in the areas they read/listen to) and adjust as necessary.

Best of luck.

shayleon

Wonderful post Welease!

The guy from G4H (Major UK marketing company) had a similar opinion to yours on my web-site, and he phrased it in a wonderful way - "Your site looks like it was done 20 years ago, and the Internet only exists for 19" !

Actually big part of my business is... web design, and if you have a minute to check http://foundation-nepal.org/ which I did recently you'll see that technical ability is not necessary my weakness (also worked as a java programmer for 10 years). I thought more than once about changing this site, but ... the people that DO show at my door love it, and it's a tough decision.

I take what you say about the niche market, and Dav's site is indeed very defined. I already have a niche, but never thought of designing my site to appeal to other people from that niche. This is great stuff to think about!

Many thanks for taking the time to write such valuable feedback!

Shay.

Welease

I just checked out the site, and indeed you have the skillz

I would never have known had i not spoken to you.. your other potential customer's won't get the chance.. so change it You might not get the chance for a second impression in a competitive market..

You do seem to have a trad niche (god I hope I'm not wrong lol)... So is that working for you? You obviously enjoy it, the comments from customers are testament to that..
Is it worth focussing on that?, and continuing to expand in that direction? Are there specific events, magazines, web sites you could target for promotional offers to bring in more of that niche business.. can you be the go-to guy for folk/trad music. Lets face it, galway is far more trad and attractive than a dingy studio in dublin, so maybe that's a feature (with the accomodation).
I think you know what they want, you just need to make it clear on the site (while not alienating the death metal band from Oranmore who might use you :P) that you can offer it.

I read the comments, they were awesome, but I didn't know any of them. Not one of those names meant anything to me.. so thats a problem.. A single comment from someone I know is worth 1000 comments from folks i dont.. sounds obvious, but it may only take offering a "name" act a couple of free recording days over a quiet weekend to get a testemony that makes me go.. ok this place is worth considering (again if they are known in that market then job done, consider me ignorant )...

Again, i think the web site, recording package, logo is an amazing package and well worth following.. (but remember i judge your skills on the portal you provide me.. so fix it!)..maybe focus on a niche market where people know the names, and then expand upon that.

Edit - this is obviously based on the fact i have 0 knowledge of your client base, bookings or future plans.. so just some comments, some of it may be bad advice depending on the specifics of your situation/requirements. Obvious, but worth stating.

shayleon

Once again - many thanks for great feedback.

First thing - I don't trad (to be precise - 1 very famous trad act, that will remain anonymous for political reasons...). Do people record trad these days? Acoustic/folk/ethnic music is indeed my favourite, and what I do best.

The problem is that I think this genre might be very small in Ireland, and looks like the majority is young bands making rock. So do I take a leap and put all the cards in a genre which may be a very small niche?

If I'd be in Dublin, I think going for metal genre would be awesome, but that's not for me, here in the shtiks.

Again - you gave me some great stuff to think about.

All the best.

Shay.

shayleon

After writing last post, I remembered that actually some of my favourite projects were with a doom metal band, and some were putting music to stories. There is NO NICHE MARKET. This is probably why other studios also do not aim to only one genre. back to the drawing board