Lampin' the roads away

kay 9

Is it illegal to lamp the roads lads? I was out lamping a week ago with a couple of lads, I was in the back of the jeep, lamp man was out the sunroof, I was the gunman. We were lampin away anyway, and seen a good few foxes. 14 to be exact in a country bog/mountain road with the two lads having most of the permissons and i having the rest from the uncles land. Anyway, we got 4 of them as we didnt bother with callers and took the nearest of them, 4 kills out of 4 shots was ok and all was goin great, the craic, the banter and so on so fourth as you all know. Then we were about to lamp the last permission when we were stopped in our tracks, mid road by a guy at 3am in his pyjamas flashin a light in our faces, telling us "No lights around here lads" He got a rude awakening though by us after we were got our bearings and I think he had to change his jocks when the 2 boys were finished speakin their finest french to him.
Anyway, what I want to ask is, is there a law at present that makes it illegal to shine/flash lights around land with shooting permissions from a "Public" road from 11pm-3am?


Ps. Disclaimer... ( No shots were fired within 100mts of the Public road )

patsat

kay 9 wrote: »

Is it illegal to lamp the roads lads? I was out lamping a week ago with a couple of lads, I was in the back of the jeep, lamp man was out the sunroof, I was the gunman. We were lampin away anyway, and seen a good few foxes. 14 to be exact in a country bog/mountain road with the two lads having most of the permissons and i having the rest from the uncles land. Anyway, we got 4 of them as we didnt bother with callers and took the nearest of them, 4 kills out of 4 shots was ok and all was goin great, the craic, the banter and so on so fourth as you all know. Then we were about to lamp the last permission when we were stopped in our tracks, mid road by a guy at 3am in his pyjamas flashin a light in our faces, telling us "No lights around here lads" He got a rude awakening though by us after we were got our bearings and I think he had to change his jocks when the 2 boys were finished speakin their finest french to him.
Anyway, what I want to ask is, is there a law at present that makes it illegal to shine/flash lights around land with shooting permissions from a "Public" road from 11pm-3am?


Ps. Disclaimer... ( No shots were fired within 100mts of the Public road )

the last time i read up on this the rules were that it was perfectly ok to lamp from the road with the intention to shoot, but you must be over 60m from any road to shoot. i read that on the NARGC website , i'd put up a link only i don't know how!

IMO opinion tho i'd try and stay on the side of these ppl tho as more than like the farmer may be more friendly with them than he is with you, and may not be impressed with the way you treated him!

Vegeta

From the NARGC website

However, please note that while it is not illegal to lamp a fox or rabbit from a public road for the purposes of shooting, it most definitely is illegal to shoot from a road.

johngalway

My memory isn't the best, but something is niggling at me.

Is there not a new rule brought in, that in transit you must have your firearm dismantled and access to that firearm should be denied to passengers, i.e. that the rifle is in the locked boot, the bolt in the glove box, and the ammo on your person, or some such combination?

If my memory on that is correct, it's definitely something to be aware of. Meeting someone out in their PJ's at 3am, versus meeting the Traffic Corps with someone wanting to get higher up the ladder, world of difference.

Just to add, if someone does confront you about lamping, it always pays to be polite, while sticking to the laws you know to be correct.

clivej

To be honest here if I was given a mouth of abuse at 3am from a truck load of lads with firearms my next call would be to the local nick with the reg of the vehicle.

I'm all for the lamping and from a road but show some respect to the locals or your find yourself's meeting the boy's with a blue flashing light the next time.

It wasn't me!

Nothing wrong with shining a lamp from the road. If you want to be properly careful and safe about it, then when travelling you should have the rifle in a slip in the back of the jeep, loaded mag and bolt out, and they can be quickly inserted as you're moving out to take the shot.

The lads have made very good points so far however about being considerate and polite to the locals. I have no issue with lamping, but if I had a bunch of lads giving me dogs' abuse while they were at it I'd be distinctly unimpressed. What's wrong with being civil, even in disagreement? Maybe he didn't want anyone lamping, for whatever reasons, and he's entitled to say that, and if it's not his land, you're still entitled to continue on, but nobody's winning any good publicity if they're ignorant in their response, and good publicity is worth infinitely more to us than it is to the detractors of our sport, because it's a damn sight harder won.

Ghost.

I hate it when you come across people like that. But its always best to resist the temptation of unloading your 'finest french' on them and keep on side as best you can.

As far as I know its legal to lamp from the road as long as the shot isnt taken within 60m of the road or a house. Ive never heard of any time restrictions on lamping.

This is according to the nargc website. If you scroll 3/4 way down the page on the link below you will find the bulliten on the legal position lamping fox.

http://www.nargc.ie/site.aspx

However, johngalway may be right about a new rule brought in, that in transit you must have your firearm dismantled and access to that firearm should be denied to passengers. Its ringing a bell with me.

I remember reading that somewhere and thinking it took a right genius to come up with that, how could you go lamping if that was the case?

Unfortunately I cant remember where I read it either.

CJhaughey

What SI is the 60ft/m rule in?
I hear 60ft/60m all the time but have yet to see the actual legislation for it.

J.R.

clivej wrote: »

To be honest here if I was given a mouth of abuse at 3am from a truck load of lads with firearms my next call would be to the local nick with the reg of the vehicle.QUOTE]

Agree 100%.....it's definitely not the best approach.

If a complaint is made to the Gardaí in relation to a firearms offence the gun is automatically seized until complaint is investigated. I couldn't see a judge reacting too kindly or sympathically to such behaviour at 3 a.m.

This man may have feared for his stock, possessions or whatever or there may be old people / young children in the house.....who would definitely be petrified at the sound of a centrefire in the dead of night in the vicinity. Just because he doesn't own the land being lamped doesn't mean he doesn't have an opinion......if living on the road he has every right to be concerned.

I have lamped foxes for years but I can perfectly understand how someone could be annoyed & nervous as seeing lamping shining in the vicinity at 3 a.m. ........I'm surprised he didn't ring the Gardaí immediately rather than investigate the matter himself, single handed.......an approach he will definitely adopt, I'm sure, next time he sees lamps shining.

meathstevie

I've never seen the legislation that says you can't fire from within 60 whatever it is from a public road. I know you can't fire from or over a road. Up North it's 60 feet.

johngalway

meathstevie wrote: »

I've never seen the legislation that says you can't fire from within 60 whatever it is from a public road. I know you can't fire from or over a road. Up North it's 60 feet.

It's either 60 or 100 metres, and fire away from the road. But, that said, I can't tell you where it is either Stevie. Not sure about the "public spaces".

It wasn't me!

I've seen it in an old set of Garda guidelines on shooting. Regardless of whether specific distances are enshrined in law, I suspect if you pushed it you'd be done for recklessly discharging the firearm, with the recklessness being by virtue of your proximity to a road.

bunny shooter

Ah but guidelines are only there for guidance

IWM is right they's do ya on the wreckless discharge of a firearm if they could get nothing ya on nothing else

Ghost.

Ya, I think the whole thing of wreckless discharge of a firearm is a bit vague and wooley. Its all depending on the circumstances as far as I know.

But if a complaint was made about lamping foxs in an area and that was the angle being taken how far would you have to be from houses or road to be reasonably sure they couldnt accuse you of wreckless discharge of a firearm?

Or is it always a possibility regardless of how far away you are?

Tackleberrywho

Ghost. wrote: »

Ya, I think the whole thing of wreckless discharge of a firearm is a bit vague and wooley. Its all depending on the circumstances as far as I know.

But if a complaint was made about lamping foxs in an area and that was the angle being taken how far would you have to be from houses or road to be reasonably sure they couldnt accuse you of wreckless discharge of a firearm?

Or is it always a possibility regardless of how far away you are?

2 Guys I know of(article was in print media) were done for shining a Lamp on to Coillte lands a year or so ago, even though the Rifle was in the back and was not loaded.
The disturbance of game was cited, the Devil can quote scripture for his own purpose boys.

Mods, I'd close this thread before lads walk them selves into a world of hurt;)

Ghost.

Tackleberrywho thats a new one to me, Ive never heard of a case where people were prosecuted for shining a lamp!!

But I dont doubt you. Anything is possible in this country.

As for closing the thread, I think it should be left open. Its good.

Its important for any responsible shooter to know exactly whats legal and whats not. And as we can see from the posts here its not always that easy to find out. In some cases its all very vague, and a lot of people read it or heard it somewhere but cant be sure where.

Would you not agree?

Now thanks to you Ive learned its possible for a person to be prosecuted for shining a lamp on coillte land. Id have never thought that possible.

deeksofdoom

kay 9 wrote: »

Then we were about to lamp the last permission when we were stopped in our tracks, mid road by a guy at 3am in his pyjamas flashin a light in our faces, telling us "No lights around here lads" He got a rude awakening though by us after we were got our bearings and I think he had to change his jocks when the 2 boys were finished speakin their finest french to him.

I'ld say now that there is a lot more to this story than what meets the eye. Whether lamping from the road or in the fields you have to be careful where you actually shine the light and not light up someone's bedroom at 3 O'clock in the morning.

Lamping is a privilege not a right, you have a duty to act responsibly when your out and that duty of responsibility is not just to the landowners whose land you have permission to hunt but also to his neighbours.

meathstevie

What's the definition of a reckless discharge in law ?

IRLConor

johngalway wrote: »

Is there not a new rule brought in, that in transit you must have your firearm dismantled and access to that firearm should be denied to passengers, i.e. that the rifle is in the locked boot, the bolt in the glove box, and the ammo on your person, or some such combination?

Over and above this, it's illegal to hunt from a vehicle. Here's the bit from the wildlife act:

Wildlife Act, Section 36 wrote:

1. Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section, a person shall not hunt or disturb for the purpose of hunting—
   1. any wild animal by means of a mechanically-propelled vehicle, vessel or aircraft, whether it is being so propelled or is stationary,
   2. any wild bird by means of such a vehicle, vessel or aircraft, while it is being so propelled.
2. Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, a mechanically-propelled vehicle, vessel or aircraft may be used to capture or kill, pursuant to and in accordance with a licence granted in that behalf by the Minister and for such educational, scientific or other purposes as are specified in the licence, wild birds or wild animals of a species so specified

That "by means of" is quite broad, so I'd be very careful how you interpret it. A Garda/judge could do wonders with that phrase.

johngalway

IRLConor wrote: »

Over and above this, it's illegal to hunt from a vehicle. Here's the bit from the wildlife act:

That's true, I'd forgotten about that.

johngalway

Jaysus I'd say ban all them Galway lads, causing nothing but trouble today the lot of them, some shower they are

bunny shooter

meathstevie wrote: »

What's the definition of a reckless discharge in law ?

Firing a shot that causes/could cause danger/offence/inconvience to others/animals ?

cavan shooter

meathstevie wrote: »

What's the definition of a reckless discharge in law ?

Dont go there, its based on opinion and the opinion of the following

the witness, the guard, the inspector/super, DPP office, and finally the Judge/Jury

Recklessness is normally also associated with taking an unjustifiable risk or doing something that puts people at risk or that the person felt he was at risk.

A firearm is not meant to be accessible to the driver of the vehicle, its in the CJA somewhere.

I lamp foxes at night, normally in the early hours of darkness on lands I have full permission using a red filter (its also less disturbing) 2 of us. Fairly discreetly

kay 9

deeksofdoom wrote: »

I'ld say now that there is a lot more to this story than what meets the eye. Whether lamping from the road or in the fields you have to be careful where you actually shine the light and not light up someone's bedroom at 3 O'clock in the morning.

Lamping is a privilege not a right, you have a duty to act responsibly when your out and that duty of responsibility is not just to the landowners whose land you have permission to hunt but also to his neighbours.

The only extra tad to this story is that all the land we lamped was owned by the lads with me, and the last permission was a cousins of mine. The guy in his purple pjs is actually a trouble maker in the vicinity for years and reports people for sweet f**k all to be frank. No lights were shon on any houses or private permissions ( come on, we have more off than that )

Lads, thanks a million for all the replies.. really appreciate it. I know the law a little better now anyway. Now all I need is a way to put that owl in his box next time. I'll be the one callin the gardai next time he stops us. I assure it will happen with that same fella. I'll keep ye updated;)


thanks again fellas:)

kay 9

johngalway wrote: »

Jaysus I'd say ban all them Galway lads, causing nothing but trouble today the lot of them, some shower they are

To hell or to the wild west John.:D

johno2

Wildlife Act, Section 36 wrote:

1. Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section, a person shall not hunt or disturb for the purpose of hunting—
   1. any wild animal by means of a mechanically-propelled vehicle, vessel or aircraft, whether it is being so propelled or is stationary,
   2. any wild bird by means of such a vehicle, vessel or aircraft, while it is being so propelled.
2. Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, a mechanically-propelled vehicle, vessel or aircraft may be used to capture or kill, pursuant to and in accordance with a licence granted in that behalf by the Minister and for such educational, scientific or other purposes as are specified in the licence, wild birds or wild animals of a species so specified

It's still okay to fish from a boat, right?;)

johno

johngalway

johno2 wrote: »

It's still okay to fish from a boat, right?;)

johno

Only with corked hooks Can't have the fishies getting a boo-boo now can we :cool:

Johnny_Coyle

It wasn't me! wrote: »

when travelling you should have the rifle in a slip in the back of the jeep, loaded mag and bolt out, and they can be quickly inserted as you're moving out to take the shot.

It's quote like these - where people encourage others to skirt the law that makes me worry.

Legally, when your firearm is being transported in a vehicle it is not supposed to be at the ready: hence in the boot, locked, in a case...

Perhaps, you are not technically breaking the law, however, you are most definitely not following the spirit of the law.

The whole point is that the firearm is not to be readily usable.

Would you drive around with the boot open? Do the Gardai say that the boot has to be closed? That would help get things out faster and the foxes wouldn't hear you.

I've seen the eegits going down the road myself lamping from vehicles. They never get out, get firearm, and get into the field as they are supposed to.

Keep it up and you'll have the country shot out.

Tired of the poaching lads...

Tackleberrywho

Johnny_Coyle wrote: »

It's quote like these - where people encourage others to skirt the law that makes me worry.

Legally, when your firearm is being transported in a vehicle it is not supposed to be at the ready: hence in the boot, locked, in a case...

Perhaps, you are not technically breaking the law, however, you are most definitely not following the spirit of the law.

The whole point is that the firearm is not to be readily usable.

Would you drive around with the boot open? Do the Gardai say that the boot has to be closed? That would help get things out faster and the foxes wouldn't hear you.

I've seen the eegits going down the road myself lamping from vehicles. They never get out, get firearm, and get into the field as they are supposed to.

Keep it up and you'll have the country shot out.

Tired of the poaching lads...

Much lamping in London?;)

Johnny_Coyle

Hey Tackle,
Did you like my clip? - classic.

Seriously though, the country is fished out more places than I care to imagine.

How often do you get to see a red? Outside of Killarney?

Where I hunt has now been discovered by the lads. Not a problem, I can share. However, one day I saw the lads fill a horse cart with deer. It appears that they own a restaurant. That's just wrong.

That kind of ****e, along with the amateur lampers, needs to be stomped out.

Get your lamp, get permission, and walk the fields and you have my blessing. Heck, set a mount up on your mountain bike and I'll even let you draft. However, encouraging eegits to shoot from the road - hope they get you and your firearm.

We need a good enforcement system and some Rangers to get out there.

Tackleberrywho

Johnny_Coyle wrote: »

Hey Tackle,
Did you like my clip? - classic.

Seriously though, the country is fished out more places than I care to imagine.

How often do you get to see a red? Outside of Killarney?

Where I hunt has now been discovered by the lads. Not a problem, I can share. However, one day I saw the lads fill a horse cart with deer. It appears that they own a restaurant. That's just wrong.(again I do not hunt for profit)

That kind of ****e, along with the amateur lampers, needs to be stomped out.

Get your lamp, get permission, and walk the fields and you have my blessing. Heck, set a mount up on your mountain bike and I'll even let you draft. However, encouraging eegits to shoot from the road - hope they get you and your firearm.

We need a good enforcement system and some Rangers to get out there.

Point of fact, I never encouraged anyone to shoot from a public highway as it is unlawful.
I wish you will retract that remark
I discouraged this thread from the start. Point of Fact!

Johnny_Coyle

Tackle,
Sorry you took that as an attack against you.

Officially, it was not towards or against you. Rather, a general statement.

Again, I apologize if it appeared I was singling you out.

I was not.

Consider any inference or implication that you condoned such retracted.

=======================================================

Guns don't scare me, idiots with guns scare me - Charles Bronson.

It wasn't me!

Johnny_Coyle wrote: »

It's quote like these - where people encourage others to skirt the law that makes me worry.

Legally, when your firearm is being transported in a vehicle it is not supposed to be at the ready: hence in the boot, locked, in a case...

Perhaps, you are not technically breaking the law, however, you are most definitely not following the spirit of the law.

The whole point is that the firearm is not to be readily usable.

Would you drive around with the boot open? Do the Gardai say that the boot has to be closed? That would help get things out faster and the foxes wouldn't hear you.

I've seen the eegits going down the road myself lamping from vehicles. They never get out, get firearm, and get into the field as they are supposed to.

Keep it up and you'll have the country shot out.

Tired of the poaching lads...

Um, skirt the law my bollocks. I pointed out how it was possible to be entirely compliant without overly inconveniencing yourself. What about my system doesn't have the rifle beyond the immediate use of the driver or passenger or is in any way fudging the law? Bolt and magazine are with the operator, not with the rifle. The rifle is safe and inert. Upon stopping, the rifle can be retrieved from the boot, made operable and then you can move into the fields. Not difficult to understand how this has nothing to do with bending or skirting the law or poaching.

ssl

If lads can't lamp without lamping house windows, they're LAMPS!

The farmer may have shon a lamp in your faces to see who ye were. That does antagonise people tho (it's a section 2 assault).

fffing people out of it while holding a firearm? Serious no no

ssl

johno2 wrote: »

It's still okay to fish from a boat, right?;)

johno

I heard ya can't shoot from a moving boat

CJhaughey

ssl wrote: »

I heard ya can't shoot from a moving boat

Show me a floating boat that doesn't move.

IRLConor

CJhaughey wrote: »

Show me a floating boat that doesn't move.

The wording is in post #19 in this thread.

So long as it's not being propelled, and you're shooting birds, it's OK.

clivej

ssl wrote: »

I heard ya can't shoot from a moving boat

CJhaughey wrote: »

Show me a floating boat that doesn't move.

IRLConor wrote: »

The wording is in post #19 in this thread.

So long as it's not being propelled, and you're shooting birds, it's OK.

Is this not the same as shooting from a punt. And the punt being made for that exact purpose??

With the hunter laying under a camouflaged cover to hide his/her outline, and then drift/row up to the chossen target.

IRLConor

To simplify, this is my reading of the law:

|Wild Animals|Wild Birds
Car/Jeep (stopped)|No|Yes
Car/Jeep (moving)|No|No
Boat (no engine)|Yes*|Yes
Boat (with engine stopped)|No|Yes
Boat (with engine running)|No|No


* This is a bit of a loophole and I wouldn't like to have to argue it in court.

I'm leaving out the "aircraft" case since any of you rich enough to hunt from aircraft should call the firm of solicitors you own.

Double Barrel

IRLConor wrote: »

I'm leaving out the "aircraft" case since any of you rich enough to hunt from aircraft should call the firm of solicitors you own.

Ah hell Conor!!!

kay 9

ssl wrote: »

If lads can't lamp without lamping house windows, they're LAMPS!

The farmer may have shon a lamp in your faces to see who ye were. That does antagonise people tho (it's a section 2 assault).

fffing people out of it while holding a firearm? Serious no no

I didn't say anywhere that we shon the lamp at anyones house or private property! I wasn't holding the firearm either whilst he got a a "fffing" All we did was perfectly legal from what I have read so far. I have reported him in angst to my local garda and he said he will have "ANOTHER" word with him over this. Apparently it aint his first time crossing people:rolleyes:

PS. the only thing he has is a possible case of verbal abuse. He needs to prove that though unfortuantely enough. 3-1 in court. Our win:p

Duck's hoop

Law or no law I think there's more than a few foxes/greys/mags shot from the road. This is of course to be condemned in the strongest possible terms. Scurrilous and abominable behaviour, bringing all decent hunting enthusiasts into disrepute.

A bit like that shooting pigeon over stubble. That's terrible carry on.

And there's been more than one prosecution (or attempted) of boys shooting ducks from boats. Hard to prove in court the engine was/wasn't running/idling but.