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Buying first 4x4, help!
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19-04-2010 12:34am#1Hi everyone Im new to this and as the name suggests Im horse mad!
I have recently decided to take the plunge and invest in a 4x4 for towing. I have been looking at Commercial SWB (Im a girl and would feel a LWB would be too big for me) models of Pajero,Landcruiser,Trooper and Terrano preferably manual. Has anyone any suggestions where I could pick one up cheapy for approx 2000e? not so concerned about age more that its reliable. Also has anyone any advice on the most fuel efficient 4x4? Im open to any other suitable vehicles for towing 2 horses (from the what ive looked into 2 horses and a horsebox would weigh approx 2500kg +) so it needs to be capable of towing that.
So any advice where I could find a jeep in my price range and the best one to go for? Thanks
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Seriously though...the LWB model in general can tow heavier loads so it's worth having a look at them too. They're not much bigger, and give you more options with regards to carrying stuff. I have a LWB Pajero (95) and it's a joy to tow with. Just remember you'll need to have an EB licence to tow a trailer heavier than 750kg.
€2000 is small enough money for a decent model in any of those that you've listed. They're all pretty reliable (don't go for the 2.5 Pajero or 3.0 Trooper though). As regards fuel efficient, you'll never get one that will compete with car fuel economy, but a good service, good tyres, and a gentle right foot will have you doing ok...I'm getting up to 35mpg with my Paj at the moment.
It's also easy to convert an Irish registered passenger model to a commercial...take out seats and seatbelts and putty over mounting holes. That's all you have to do, get the class changed over from private to commercial, go get it weighed, DOE'd, and then tax it as a commercial. The passenger models are normally in better condition.
Have a look at the Daihatsu Fourtrak, Opel Frontera and others too...
here's a carzone search for a few models, up to a max of €2999 for ya...
link here
best of luck with the hunt!0 -
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don't go for the 2.5 Pajero or 3.0 Trooper though
I'd agree with this anyway, mate of mine has the 2.5 pajero and its a ball of sh1t!!
The l200 also has a 2.5 engine but I'm not sure are the engines the same so it might be worth checking that.....
You'd get better value by looking on websites such as donedeal.ie rather then in a dealership and there is plenty for sale at the moment
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/commercials/1256239 - SWB Pajero
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/commercials/1253248 - Jeep Cherokee
Just another few options there, I dunno what the pulling power of them would be but I'm sure someone here will be able to tell you more 0 -
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Thanks SGKM, that actually helps a lot.
I would be using it for daily use however I will not be driving to work in it, don't see the point in sitting in traffic in a 4x4! :P I would be mainly using it for short journeys (dual carraige ways mainly) and towing one/two horses not very long distances.
Now that I look into it I am thinking of spending a few bob more as there is nothing that looks suitable for €2000 and at the end of the day I might end up spending more than €2000 if I end up with something that needs work.
I only seem to see 2.5 Pajeros '99-'02 models so I am a bit wary now if they are no good
I wouldn't mind having a vehicle looked over before I buy, any suggestions where/who could do this and the rough price?
Cheers0 -
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horsemad23 wrote: »Thanks SGKM, that actually helps a lot.
I would be using it for daily use however I will not be driving to work in it, don't see the point in sitting in traffic in a 4x4! :P I would be mainly using it for short journeys (dual carraige ways mainly) and towing one/two horses not very long distances.
Now that I look into it I am thinking of spending a few bob more as there is nothing that looks suitable for €2000 and at the end of the day I might end up spending more than €2000 if I end up with something that needs work.
I only seem to see 2.5 Pajeros '99-'02 models so I am a bit wary now if they are no good
I wouldn't mind having a vehicle looked over before I buy, any suggestions where/who could do this and the rough price?
Cheers
No probs,
So what do you reckon that you'll spend then? If it is your car in opposed to your second car, I would strongly advise spending as much as you can afford... a couple of grand more will push you into Landcrusier territory. This isn't bad for €3k and looks genuine & clean, although it doesn't state the mileage (Timing belt done so obviously over 60/70k) - http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1230554
Here are a few others:
This looks like a stunner - http://www.carzone.ie/search/Toyota/Landcruiser/3.0-TD-S/201014197519603/advert?channel=CARS. They're asking €5k but you'd probably get it for a few hundred less. If you could stretch to €4,600-ish I'd say this is probably the best one for sale at the moment. I actually really like this one but it's way over my budget and way to nice for what I'm looking for!
This looks like it might be okay - http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/commercials/1185263
There are sh1t loads of Pajeros on Dondeal - most around the €2k mark are 91-97ish 2.5s and a few 2.8s. The 2.5 from '91 to '99 had 98bhp, the 2.5 from '00 to '05 (I think) which is the newer model had 115bhp so it's slightly better. The 2.8 from '93 to '99 had between 123bhp and 135bhp(later Jap imports had slightly more power). The 2.8 had a lot more torque (pulling power - which is what you're looking for... don't know how much you know about cars!). A 2.8 SWB manual would probably do about 24ish mpg and the 2.5 about 27ish, the extra power and torque is defo worth it! But if you're spending more money I'd go Landcrusier if I were you - they're more reliable (Pajeros are also reliable but Landcrusiers are better), faster, more economical and probably better to drive. The interiors in Pajeros are as nice in my opinion though.
Have you looked into insurance yet? I got a great quote today for a commercial policy (in my dad's name cause I'm a 24 year old lad) with me named on a 3.5 205bhp V6 petrol Pajero commercial worth €2,500 for €320 Third Party Fire and Theft. But we both have our own policies so that makes a difference I think. I'll send you the details if you want?
Where are you based? I think the AA do it but it's probably expensive. If you find one you like that's miles away from you do not let the seller recommend a local "independent" mechanic. Personally I wouldn't spend €100/€150 on a mechanic to look over a €2k jeep cause I'd probably be confident enough to do it myself at this stage, particularly a Pajero but I think you should definitely try and get a mechanic or someone who know's their stuff (preferably jeeps) to go with ya to view it. As there is so much sh1t out there you have to be very careful not to be taken for a ride. I have a reasonably detailed "guide" on viewing used Pajeros (but would be applicable in most parts to all jeeps) that I can send you if you want? It's bascially what to check and look out for when viewing used Pajero.
Just realised this is a VERY long post, sorry!0 -
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Wow a lot to take in! Ive done a bit of research into 4x4 towing etc so I'll pretend I know a bit haha...
Well im thinking of 4000-4500 max! So im reckoning a 99-02 Pajero or maybe an older Lancruiser.
If you have the name of that insurance company that would be great. I did get some quotes for €1100 (fully comp) for a pajero 2.5 worth 2000, which i personally dont think is too bad considering I'm 23 and my 1.3 car worth 1000 is costing me €850!
If you have any info on what to look for when buying a jeep that would be great
And yeah I have heard rangerovers, jeeps are useless,Im steering well clear0 -
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horsemad23 wrote: »Wow a lot to take in! Ive done a bit of research into 4x4 towing etc so I'll pretend I know a bit haha...
Well im thinking of 4000-4500 max! So im reckoning a 99-02 Pajero or maybe an older Lancruiser.
If you have the name of that insurance company that would be great. I did get some quotes for €1100 (fully comp) for a pajero 2.5 worth 2000, which i personally dont think is too bad considering I'm 23 and my 1.3 car worth 1000 is costing me €850!
If you have any info on what to look for when buying a jeep that would be great
And yeah I have heard rangerovers, jeeps are useless,Im steering well clear
Would you not be better off getting rid of the car? Are you on a provisional licience or something!? That sounds dear for insurance... I'm 24 and paying €900 or so fully comp with Aviva on a 1.9TDI Audi A4 that's probably insured for €16k (but that was before my penalty points:() Try Munster Group and Arran Insurance for the jeep.
For €4,500 I'd defo go Landcruiser, but at that budget you'd be able to get an early 3.2 DID. I assume that you are aware that running costs on these are high (insurance and tax are cheap, fuel is okay) servicing is expensive on these - you'd be talking €300+ for a service and on that rare occasion when they go wrong they are VERY expensive to repair... I paid €1,600 to fix mine when the flywheel failed! Don't want to put you off, just want to make you aware of what's potentially in store.
I'll PM you that guide, I'm pulling it together at the moment from a couple of different sources - It's pretty detailed and will be 4-5 pages in MS word.0 -
Thanks SGKM.
Yea the car is def going, cant afford to run two of them. I'm going to drive a pajero this weekend and we'll see where that leaves me. '02 SWB Pajero, 125k on the clock, DOE'd in Feb, no tax and never towed anything, apparently only for sale coz the guy lost his job....but we'll see!
Yea I realise its going to be expensive, thats why I dont want a big loan to be paying back too. More importantly I'm really hoping nothing major will go wrong with it. Eitheir that or ill be back to my little run around and the horse will be staying put. Failing that I need to find a cheaper hobby!
In general would you say more things go wrong with 4x4 than cars? Ive a 96 colt and it never has much wrong with it, only regular things like tyres, timing belt etc.0 -
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Went to see the Pajero. It was lovely to drive and looks to be in good nick with 4 new tyres and a spare. It actually has 130k mileage, a lot for a 2002 I know. However I called into a few dealers/garages to see what they have and it seems that for around 4500e im looking at 100-140k.
The pajero I went to see was a 2.5, didn't seem slow to me (i know it might be a different story towing). It will need a new timing belt I reckon, it was supposed to have been done at 75k! Im having someone to go look it over on Monday see what kind of condition its really in! So I'll decide then. Am I mad? I really liked it.
Haven't seen many 3.2 pajeros for sale, maybe just not in my budget.
I had a qucik look into a local dealer, I also saw a nice 99 3.1 Trooper, looks ok, comes with full years DOE for 4000e, its in a dealers and I dont know how realiable he is, he couldn't tell me on the spot what the mileage was (reckoned less than 100k). Im not sure if he'd let me have it looked over. So just wondering whats my best bet at this point 0 -
No 99 Trooper should have a 3.1 engine. The 3.1 finished in 98.horsemad23 wrote: »
I had a qucik look into a local dealer, I also saw a nice 99 3.1 Trooper, looks ok, comes with full years DOE for 4000e, its in a dealers and I dont know how realiable he is, he couldn't tell me on the spot what the mileage was (reckoned less than 100k). Im not sure if he'd let me have it looked over. So just wondering whats my best bet at this point
It could be a late registration but I reckon it is either a transplant into what was once a 3.0L or else it is a 3.0L. Either way I would think it would be a bad move0 -
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horsemad23 wrote: »Went to see the Pajero. It was lovely to drive and looks to be in good nick with 4 new tyres and a spare. It actually has 130k mileage, a lot for a 2002 I know. However I called into a few dealers/garages to see what they have and it seems that for around 4500e im looking at 100-140k.
The pajero I went to see was a 2.5, didn't seem slow to me (i know it might be a different story towing). It will need a new timing belt I reckon, it was supposed to have been done at 75k! Im having someone to go look it over on Monday see what kind of condition its really in! So I'll decide then. Am I mad? I really liked it.
Haven't seen many 3.2 pajeros for sale, maybe just not in my budget.
I had a qucik look into a local dealer, I also saw a nice 99 3.1 Trooper, looks ok, comes with full years DOE for 4000e, its in a dealers and I dont know how realiable he is, he couldn't tell me on the spot what the mileage was (reckoned less than 100k). Im not sure if he'd let me have it looked over. So just wondering whats my best bet at this point
First off... who told you that the timing belt was supposed to be done at 75k??? The interval for those is 62k miles! Are you saying that it is still on its first timing belt? If so do not walk away from that jeep... run!!! Is there any service history with it?
That Trooper is defo a transplant engine, Slidey's right.0 -
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Think I'll avoid the that "3.1" trooper then! Place looked a bit dodgy I have to say. There was also a 3.0l '96 Trooper but had no tinted windows in the back, I thought this wasn't allowed in commercials?!
As for the pajero it last had its timing belt done at 75k so would need it done again as it is now at 130k (sorry didn't make that clear)...hmm I'm thinking maybe this one is a no go!
Just out of interest how much would a time belt change set me back? I believe the 2.8l has a chain and not a belt whats the difference?
Also is the 2.8l only available in the older models and the 3.2l in newer pajero models?
Phoned around a few people about landcruisers and pajeros in my price range and some were sold and others didn't seem that suitable, but I'm still on the hunt! And will be doing more phoning and trawling thorugh the internet today 0 -
horsemad23 wrote: »Think I'll avoid the that "3.1" trooper then! Place looked a bit dodgy I have to say. There was also a 3.0l '96 Trooper but had no tinted windows in the back, I thought this wasn't allowed in commercials?!
As for the pajero it last had its timing belt done at 75k so would need it done again as it is now at 130k (sorry didn't make that clear)...hmm I'm thinking maybe this one is a no go!
Just out of interest how much would a time belt change set me back? I believe the 2.8l has a chain and not a belt whats the difference?
Also is the 2.8l only available in the older models and the 3.2l in newer pajero models?
Phoned around a few people about landcruisers and pajeros in my price range and some were sold and others didn't seem that suitable, but I'm still on the hunt! And will be doing more phoning and trawling thorugh the internet today
Well I would only avoid a 99+ 3.1 because you don't know the history of the engine, there isn't really anything dodgey about replacing the newer 3.0 with an older 3.1 unit as the 3.0 was so unreliable, if you look around it's actually fairly common. I'd be more wary of a '96 3.0 as there is no real rationale for that!
You can have a commercial with clear glass in the back... basically if you import and VRT a jeep as a passanger and get fed up paying €1,500 road tax you can rip out the back seats, put in a flat floor, make the seat belts unusable, weigh and DOE it you can bring it down to your local motor tax office and get it moved to commerial tax. BUT if you are VRTing a jeep as a commercial you have to have metal panels in place of the glass (or behind the glass)
In my view if someone has left the timing belt 13,000 miles past the recommended time of replacement when there is a massive risk of it snapping and if it does the engine is fcuked... you have to wonder what else have they skipped or done on the cheap! I would avoid that jeep if I were you.
Yep, the 2.8 and 3.2 have timing chains (I don't know a lot about engines but my understanding is that the 3.2 is based on 2.8 with an increased bore and stroke and more modern components), timing belts/chains control the opening and closing of an engine's valves. Timing belts are cheaper and apparently quieter. I don't know how much a timing belt would set you back but I recently paid €380 at my local mechanic for my 2004 Audi A4 1.9TDI 130bhp and was quoted up to €800 at Audi main stealers so I would guess that a Pajero is a bigger job... I'd hazard a guess at around €450+ at good local mechanic, but that could be miles off the mark!
The 2.8 123bhp & 215lb/ft was only available in what I would call the MKII ('91-'93), MKIII('94-'97) and MKIV('97-'00) Pajeros from 1993 to 2000. The 3.2 160bhp & 275lb/ft is in the MKV('99-'03), MKVI('03-'07), MKVII('07-'10) but has been updated in the MKVIII('10+) with 200bhp & 325lb/ft... My God I'm sad and anal!!!!
Still think this is BY FAR your best bet... http://www.carzone.ie/search/Toyota/Landcruiser/3.0-TD-S/201014197519603/advert?channel=CARS and at least worth a phone call, it look so genuine from the ad!
Hope that answers all your questions!!0 -
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