am I overreacting

LegacyUser

I go to a mental health clinic every month. You go in and have to ring a buzzer and talk by intercomm to the ofice upstairs. They tell you go up and wait. If you want the toilet you have to go downstairs and use the inter comm to call up stairs and they come out and tell you go up stairs and they unlock the door to the toilets which are on floor two.

In an era when mental health people are supposed to be treated with respect I consider that an insult to people and that it is little more than a prision like environment in a brand niew building. am I overreacting?

Cheap Thrills!

I think you probably are overreacting a bit yes. It's probably just for security reasons. Even workplaces can be like Fort knox going in and out. Inconvenient but there are usually reasons behind these things that wouldn't be obvious.

I wouldn't overthink it too much.

Ickle Magoo

I think you are over-reacting too. Many modern buildings have high security, just as a result of having expensive equipment lying about and being of a nature where the coming and going of new faces is common place. I imagine security is even more prevalent in buildings that contain pharmaceuticals and/or unstable individuals.

Best of luck.

tenchi-fan

Agreed, you are overreacting.
Don't take it personally!! And at the risk of sounding blunt.. "get of your high horse". It's nothing got to do with respect.

Most places that buzz you into a reception room expect you to wait there!
The office I work in (not a doctor's!) has the toilets the other side of security turnstyles so you need to get permission to go through them. My GP has the toilets past the reception also... it's just got to do with security and building design really.

Actually, any time I had to go to a gp, interview.. anywhere really, I would pop into a cafe on the way to use the bogs rather than having to ask at reception in the place I am going. But maybe that's just me.

edit: come to think of it.. any office I worked in, clients visiting rarely ask to use the toilets. Just an observation!

LegacyUser

OP here. Thanks for the feedback

SerialComplaint

I don't think you are overreacting with your concern here. Dignity and independence should be important features of any medical service, and for adults having to effectively ask 'an bhfuil cad agam dul amach' is certainly not dignified, and does not support independance.

From the service's point of view, I guess they are concerned about security. Open access bathrooms can attract anti-social behaviour. I'd be interested to know if this is a purpose-built facility, or just a new building where somebody (HSE?) has rented a few rooms. If the former, then it is very dissapointing that the need for independence and dignity wasn't considered by the designers. If the latter, it is very dissapointing that the need for independence and dignity wasn't considered by the service provider when renting the facility.

The real question is what they can practically do now. Is there any alternative arrangement that you can suggest, given the layout of the current building. Can you provide clear access from level 1 (your clinic) to level 2 (bathrooms) without involving reception, while maintaining security? Just curious - is there a lift in the facility to allow a wheelchair user to get to the clinic and bathrooms?

tenchi-fan

SerialComplaint, an "alternative arrangement" even though the op only visits the clinic once a month? What's wrong with making a toilet stop before arriving at the clinic. People with mental health problems may also have problems with drugs and may shoot up in the toilets. Or some one could hide in the toilets and rape another person who was unfortunately enough to enter them. Yep, laugh it off but I would be completely in favour of a bit of security in a mental health clinic!

SerialComplaint

tenchi-fan wrote: »

SerialComplaint, an "alternative arrangement" even though the op only visits the clinic once a month? What's wrong with making a toilet stop before arriving at the clinic. People with mental health problems may also have problems with drugs and may shoot up in the toilets. Or some one could hide in the toilets and rape another person who was unfortunately enough to enter them. Yep, laugh it off but I would be completely in favour of a bit of security in a mental health clinic!

It would be completely unacceptable NOT to have any bathroom facilities in a clinic like this, assuming that patients may well end up spending a couple of hours or more at the clinic. I'm on some new medication at the moment that has me peeing every 45 minutes or so for parts of the day, so the options of taking a leak beforehand would be no good to me.

I'm in favour of having a bit of security too. That's why I said "Can you provide clear access from level 1 (your clinic) to level 2 (bathrooms) without involving reception, while maintaining security?"

It is indeed theoretically true to someone could hide in the toilets in the mental health clinic and rape another person. It is also theoretically true that someone could hide in the toilets in the cafe where you are suggesting they make their toilet stop, ready to
rape someone. It is theoretically true that someone could be hiding in the toilets wherever you are now, waiting to rape you tonight. But all those scenarios are extremely unlikely. Research findings (Alaszewski et al, 1998) suggest that most mentally ill people present a greater risk to themselves than to others.

Like most things in life, a bit of balance is needed. There may well be an appropriate solution that provides reasonable security with a dignified environment, which will of course be important in treating any mental health condition.

chocgirl

I think you're overreacting a little bit. It's just a security procedure more than likely and an oversight in planning. I worked in a multidisciplinary HSE clinic setting for a couple of months and if I went out of the clinic area to the bathrooms I had to ring for a security guard to let me back in. It's not personal.

LegacyUser

OP back. Seems the only one who feels like me is a person who also attends a mental health clinic. I thought it was undignified anyway. I feel that when there are supposed to be more enlightened times the bit about the intercom is a joke

As for raping in toilets, yeah right, not me.

sam34

while its not the most practical and dignified arrangement, i dont think its really a big deal.

its hardly like it was decided upon to cause maximum embarrassment/lack of dignity/poor respect.

it's likely to be a combination of bad planning, non-purpose built facilities and a need for security.

tenchi-fan

mentaluser wrote: »

OP back. Seems the only one who feels like me is a person who also attends a mental health clinic. I thought it was undignified anyway. I feel that when there are supposed to be more enlightened times the bit about the intercom is a joke

the irony, eh? Actually I'm sure you're not the only one to be annoyed by such a setup. People with bladder problems especially could get very embarrassed and I would expect a better setup in a urologist clinic. But at the end of the day it's a pretty standard design and has nothing to do with the dignity of mental patients any more than garages who lock their toilets are discriminating against motorists!

mentaluser wrote: »

As for raping in toilets, yeah right, not me.

As I said, regarding the building layout or security precautions - don't it personally.

LegacyUser

tenchi-fan wrote: »

the irony, eh? .

I do not think it ironic just enlightening that the only one who agrees with me has experience of going to MH clinics. Experience........

cafecolour

It might also be for privacy - ie so you don't run into other patients who wouldn't want it known they were going to a mental health clinic (or who you wouldn't want to know you were there).

I know it's lost a lot of it's stigma, but unfortunately there are still many people who are touchy and wouldn't want to be 'seen' getting help. A lot of psychiatrists will stagger patient schedules and/or have separate exits and entrances from their office to avoid patients running into each other.

Agonist

Wow, I don't think the op is over reacting at all!
I also think it's to do with 1. the HSE and its lack of respect for all patients and 2. the fact that it's a mental health service and the situation described fits in perfectly with the numerous systems in existence to stigmatise and demoralise the patients.

tenchi-fan wrote: »

SerialComplaint, an "alternative arrangement" even though the op only visits the clinic once a month? What's wrong with making a toilet stop before arriving at the clinic. People with mental health problems may also have problems with drugs and may shoot up in the toilets. Or some one could hide in the toilets and rape another person who was unfortunately enough to enter them. Yep, laugh it off but I would be completely in favour of a bit of security in a mental health clinic!

sam34 or another medical expert could tell you want kind of disorders people go to these clinics for. I have no doubt that the overwhelming majority are there for mood disorders etc. and if they have an addiction problem chances are its alcohol and not hard drugs.
It's that kind of perspective that conflates mental illness and antisocial behaviour that makes measures like the buzzer to use the toilet seem acceptable. We're talking about some kind of outpatient department, which should have more in common with a dentist's rooms than a remand centre.

chocgirl wrote: »

I think you're overreacting a little bit. It's just a security procedure more than likely and an oversight in planning. I worked in a multidisciplinary HSE clinic setting for a couple of months and if I went out of the clinic area to the bathrooms I had to ring for a security guard to let me back in. It's not personal.

But you worked for the HSE. The same HSE that one toilet without a lock in a colonoscopy unit that I recently visited. Men + women + hospital gowns + enemas... This thread isn't about whose fault it is but holding up the HSE systems, whether for staff or patients, won't cut much ice with anyone here (in Ireland).

cafecolour wrote: »

It might also be for privacy - ie so you don't run into other patients who wouldn't want it known they were going to a mental health clinic (or who you wouldn't want to know you were there).

I know it's lost a lot of it's stigma, but unfortunately there are still many people who are touchy and wouldn't want to be 'seen' getting help. A lot of psychiatrists will stagger patient schedules and/or have separate exits and entrances from their office to avoid patients running into each other.

It would be nice if this were true but in the local HSE clinic here the patients line up on plastics seats and are called by name one by one. As for psychiatrists staggering patient schedules, they give every patient an appointment time of 10 am or 2 pm around here, ensuring maximum wastage of patients' time and plenty of opportunity for small talk.

To get to the OP's point, yes I think that making clients buzz up and down to have the toilets unlocked for them is unacceptable. Having the clinic in a place that doesn't have an open door and a reception area is unacceptable. Each little ignomony that psychiatric patients face is like a lump of lead added to the wrong side of the scales of their self-esteem. The line is blurred between the HSE failures of every patient and the special insults that are added to the lot of the psychiatric patients. Unlike midwifery and cancer care, the psychiatric patient is, by diagnosis, a lesser being than those in the team that treat him. There needs to be a higher standard in psychiatric services until the stigma, illustrated in tenchi-fan's post, is gone. Unlike in other illnesses, the stigma has a bearing on the outcome of the illness. It's as important and relevant as having quarantine zones for CF patients.

OP, you have a long fight ahead of you to get the respect you deserve, as evidenced in this thread. Good luck with it.

SerialComplaint

mentaluser wrote: »

OP back. Seems the only one who feels like me is a person who also attends a mental health clinic.

If this is referring to me, I'm not sure where you picked that up, but it is not correct.

mentaluser wrote: »

I thought it was undignified anyway. I feel that when there are supposed to be more enlightened times the bit about the intercom is a joke

You could raise questions about the effectiveness of the intercom. Does it actually add any security value? Does the person who buzzes you into the loo check to see that you come out within a reasonable time? If not, there is nothing to stop a client hanging around or hiding in the loo.

LegacyUser

SerialComplaint wrote: »

If this is referring to me, I'm not sure where you picked that up, but it is not correct..

sorry thought you said you were.

cafecolour wrote: »

It might also be for privacy - ie so you don't run into other patients who wouldn't want it known they were going to a mental health clinic (or who you wouldn't want to know you were there).

not for privacy cos after intercomming in everyone waits together. I overheard the next guy saying MR x to see Dr Y into intercom as I went upstairs

Agonist wrote: »

OP, you have a long fight ahead of you to get the respect you deserve, as evidenced in this thread. Good luck with it.

LOL I would not be long putting the HSE in their place if i chose to but i probably will not go there any more. Life is too short for arguing with them

ztoical

Agonist wrote: »

Wow, I don't think the op is over reacting at all!
I also think it's to do with 1. the HSE and its lack of respect for all patients and 2. the fact that it's a mental health service and the situation described fits in perfectly with the numerous systems in existence to stigmatise and demoralise the patients.

Having worked in a mental health facility doing workshops for in patients what the OP is describing is pretty common. I had to go ask for the staff toilet key, be escorted to the bathroom and then be locked inside. The reason? Safety. They'd had a number of cases of patients hiding in the bathrooms and attacking people and some cases of staff copying keys to steal drugs from the lock up so only certain staff had keys and they weren't allowed give them to anyone else or take them outside the building.

It's got nothing to do with trying to demoralise patients but rather to protect the place from law suits. While most mental health patients are in control of themselves there several conditions that can lead to people being very violent to others and themselves and as such staff need to be aware 100% of the time whose in the building and were they are. At least the OP is just buzzed in and out rather then escorted to the loo and having someone stand outside waiting for them.