Dunguib given go-ahead for Champion Hurdle

Shane732

Has most of you have probably seen at this stage Dunguib will take on the big boys in Punchestown on Friday.

Opinions.....?

Myerz

General Miller a better bet maybe, on form at least.

chancer007

should be interesting to see how he gets on.
Dont think they will be riding him so far off the pace.
small field will suit

arkle121

we will see what he is made of now i fancy him big time .i beleive he is a bad traveler i wonder did this affect him at cheltenham now he is back home on home turf it could be a different game

sting60

arkle121 wrote: »

we will see what he is made of now i fancy him big time .i beleive he is a bad traveler i wonder did this affect him at cheltenham now he is back home on home turf it could be a different game

he won the bumper at cheltenham.If ground is fast he wont win .

SRFC

wants a bit of cut in the ground.. at the preview last night and ruby and a few others say he has no chance..said he would of won against the novices but wont win the champion..

arkle121

SRFC wrote: »

wants a bit of cut in the ground.. at the preview last night and ruby and a few others say he has no chance..said he would of won against the novices but wont win the champion..

ruby walsh said that he must be losing it:rolleyes: one of the best novices we have seen in a long time,i hope i am right mind you i was wrong once but that was a long time ago happy days

arkle121

sting60 wrote: »

he won the bumper at cheltenham.If ground is fast he wont win .

i know he won the bumper at cheltenham,but his traveling in the box is getting to him and if you have a bad traveler the race is left in the box,watch twist magic today if sweats up today in the ring leave him be. another worrier to note

mdwexford

arkle121 wrote: »

ruby walsh said that he must be losing it:rolleyes: one of the best novices we have seen in a long time,i hope i am right mind you i was wrong once but that was a long time ago happy days

Hes not even the best novice we have seen this season never mind in a long time.

Johner

3/1 joint favourite is such a laughable price.

arkle121

mdwexford wrote: »

Hes not even the best novice we have seen this season never mind in a long time.

well then who is

Shane732

mdwexford wrote: »

Hes not even the best novice we have seen this season never mind in a long time.

I'd be interested to know who you think is the best novice hurdler....

I think it'd be hard to accept Menorah as the best novice hurdler. Granted he won the supreme novices but has since been turned over by General Miller who was convincingly turned over today.

Menorah has only won one grade 1 - being the supreme novices.

Winner of 4 out of his 7 starts over hurdles. Never out of the top two. Very weak races when you look at the form from his hurdle races.

Perhaps GMOH -

Certainly a very progressive horse. Winner of an ordinary enough Totesport Trophy (Grade 3). Has not won a Grade 1 but was a gallant second to Menorah in the Supreme Novices.

Winner out of 5 of his 6 starts. Never out of the top 2.

Dunguib -

I'll admit I'm firmly in the Dunguib camp. I think he is a special horse and was bitterly disappointed to see him turned over in the Supreme novices. However, regardless of what anyone says about the ride or tactics etc... he was beaten.

Looking back through his form he's won two Grade 1 races very convincingly. Not the strongest of grade 1's but nevertheless grade 1's. He finished less than 2 lengths off Menorah and GMOH in the supreme novices.

He won his maiden doing handstands.

I think it's unfair to make such a general comment.

Shane732

Johner wrote: »

3/1 joint favourite is such a laughable price.

He was favourite for the champion hurdle with a run. You hardly expected him to be 10/1 now did you?

mdwexford

arkle121 wrote: »

well then who is

Id have the top 2 in the Sup Nov ahead of him anyway.

Shane732 wrote: »

I'd be interested to know who you think is the best novice hurdler....

I think it'd be hard to accept Menorah as the best novice hurdler. Granted he won the supreme novices but has since been turned over by General Miller who was convincingly turned over today.

Menorah has only won one grade 1 - being the supreme novices.

Winner of 4 out of his 7 starts over hurdles. Never out of the top two. Very weak races when you look at the form from his hurdle races.

Perhaps GMOH -

Certainly a very progressive horse. Winner of an ordinary enough Totesport Trophy (Grade 3). Has not won a Grade 1 but was a gallant second to Menorah in the Supreme Novices.

Winner out of 5 of his 6 starts. Never out of the top 2.

Dunguib -

I'll admit I'm firmly in the Dunguib camp. I think he is a special horse and was bitterly disappointed to see him turned over in the Supreme novices. However, regardless of what anyone says about the ride or tactics etc... he was beaten.

Looking back through his form he's won two Grade 1 races very convincingly. Not the strongest of grade 1's but nevertheless grade 1's. He finished less than 2 lengths off Menorah and GMOH in the supreme novices.

He won his maiden doing handstands.

I think it's unfair to make such a general comment.

Menorah wasnt seen at his best at Aintree, when it mattered he put in the performance.

I think GMOOH will prove to be the best long term prospect myself.

Dunguib beat trees all season and was found out against serious horses.
Hes a nice horse and theres probably not a whole lot between the 3 but all this hes special and the next Istabraq etc is laughable hype.

Shane732

mdwexford wrote: »

Id have the top 2 in the Sup Nov ahead of him anyway.



Menorah wasnt seen at his best at Aintree, when it mattered he put in the performance.

I think GMOOH will prove to be the best long term prospect myself.

Dunguib beat trees all season and was found out against serious horses.
Hes a nice horse and theres probably not a whole lot between the 3 but all this hes special and the next Istabraq etc is laughable hype.

The same argument could be said for Dunguib - he wasn't seen at his best in Cheltenham.

I agree with you in that I think GMOH will prove to be the better of the two (Menorah and GMOH) in the long term. I think he'll progress nicely.

I still think Dunguib has the potential to be a very successful horse perhaps not along the line of Istabraq but I think there's plenty of big races to be won with him in the future. I also think he'll turn the form over with Menorah and GMOH at his first opportunity.

Personally I think putting him in against the big boys (and perhaps girl) on Friday is a mistake. I think he would have won the novice hurdle yesterday and it would have been a fine way to finish the season off.

Fridays race is a seriously competitive race.

Johner

Shane732 wrote: »

He was favourite for the champion hurdle with a run. You hardly expected him to be 10/1 now did you?

No, where did I say he would be 10/1? He has done nothing to suggest he should be 3/1 favorite in this field.

Shane732

Johner wrote: »

No, where did I say he would be 10/1? He has done nothing to suggest he should be 3/1 favorite in this field.

I was using 10/1 as an example. He's 5/2 in places now btw.

Well the Supreme Novices was 3 seconds slower than the Champion Hurdle and he was less than 2 lengths off the winner in the Supreme Novices. Solwhit was 17 lengths or so off the winner in the Champion.

I know this doesn't tell the full story but based on the most recent times he deserves to be at the forefront of the betting.

Shane732

I think this is about the most gutted I've ever been having the winner of a race. I had Dunguib backed and cover the bet with Hurricane Fly, so finished about €50 up out of the race but it feels awful!

I absolutely love Dunguib but I think it's proven today he should not have got for the Champion Hurdle. You can argue that the pace wasn't good enough but that's the way racing goes. It's hard to see him being as good as Hurricane Fly and the other boys come next season.

You have to take your hat off to Paul for trying to get the lot keen behind him and Davy for taking over so early.

Nulty

Shane732 wrote: »

I was using 10/1 as an example. He's 5/2 in places now btw.

Well the Supreme Novices was 3 seconds slower than the Champion Hurdle and he was less than 2 lengths off the winner in the Supreme Novices. Solwhit was 17 lengths or so off the winner in the Champion.

I know this doesn't tell the full story but based on the most recent times he deserves to be at the forefront of the betting.

I'm just reading this now but Shane can you honestly take Solwhits Cheltenham CH form seriously? IMO its absolutely ridiculous to refer to that run as a line in form. Seriously, 5 Grade 1's, and you think he's 17 lengths worse than Binocular?

Shane732

Nulty wrote: »

I'm just reading this now but Shane can you honestly take Solwhits Cheltenham CH form seriously? IMO its absolutely ridiculous to refer to that run as a line in form. Seriously, 5 Grade 1's, and you think he's 17 lengths worse than Binocular?

I did say that the times don't tell the full story. Solowhit scoped badly the week before the race and was basically a non-runner up to 4 days before the race. I don't think he's 17 lengths off Binocular but on the form Binocular showed in the Champion hurdle I do think he is off him even on his best run.

Binocular was speculator. It'd be hard to look beyond Binocular for the Champion Hurdle next year purely based on what I've seen so far. Naturally we have a whole season in front of us and anything can happen. As we've seen Binocular had a stinker of a season right up to the hurdle- anything can happen (within reason).

The one good thing for Dunguib is that he jumped better today with the exception of one hurdle. If he progresses when he comes back in from the field then he might be there but it's hard to see it now.

I forgave him the Cheltenham race on the basis that he didn't get the run of the race and tactics didn't work out. It's hard to do to it again but I'll probably give him one more chance.

Morgans

I cant remember more people getting sucked in by horse in a long time. Favourite today after being exposed at Cheltenham. Unreal. Those who cant see Dunguib's limitations now never will. A decent horse, whose greatest wins are behind him. To old to progress past those who finished ahead of him Cheltenham. I hope O'Connell gets a few apologies. Its the very rare critic who made any sense. Hopefully the first two get to cheltenham in the best of health next year.

RichieLawlor

Nulty wrote: »

I'm just reading this now but Shane can you honestly take Solwhits Cheltenham CH form seriously? IMO its absolutely ridiculous to refer to that run as a line in form. Seriously, 5 Grade 1's, and you think he's 17 lengths worse than Binocular?

Its quite possible that everything will prove to be 17 lengths worse than Binocular;)

SRFC

hopefully the eeijits blaming o connell will realise the horse isnt a machine..the fly is though

mdwexford

17 lengths is a lot but Binocular put in the best performance in a Champion Hurdle in the past 20+ years. He is streets ahead of the rest at his best.

Dunguib has had his limitations exposed for sure now i think but he still has a lot of fans and there will be plenty of money to be made laying him at shorter than he should be next season i reckon.

RichieLawlor

mdwexford wrote: »

17 lengths is a lot but Binocular put in the best performance in a Champion Hurdle in the past 20+ years. He is streets ahead of the rest at his best.

Dunguib has had his limitations exposed for sure now i think but he still has a lot of fans and there will be plenty of money to be made laying him at shorter than he should be next season i reckon.

Dungib will win a few races next year on bad ground in slow run races, probably as impressive as this year.

Shane732

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Dungib will win a few races next year on bad ground in slow run races, probably as impressive as this year.

That really depends on what route he goes. If he comes up against Solwhit and the likes (which he presumably will at the start of the season anyway) he'll have a tough task.

UrbanSea

Dunguib...the next Cousin Vinny? Very unimpressive yesterday.

LutherBlissett

In Cheltenham, I think it could validly be argued that Dunguib wasn't given a brilliant ride. O' Connell either missed the kick or deliberately sat too far back in the early stages - in a pacey 2 mile race at Cheltenham, a horse needs cruising speed to lie up, at least in mid div as the race unfolds. Notably, Alderbrook came from a long way back to win a Champion Hurdle, but he was a fairly exceptional horse in a much smaller field than run in the Supreme Novices. Istabraq won the Sun Alliance from the back, but that's 2m 5f, so not comparable. If anyone has read the Richard Dunwoody autobiography (cracking read), he reckons he lost a Champion Hurdle on (I think) a Mercy Rimmell horse by missing the jump, racing in rear and then having to make up the lost ground. Dunguib was given a lot of work to do by the jockey just to get to the leaders.

As regards running in the Champion Hurdle at Punchestown, I just cannot see the rationale. A young horse who has had a hard race at Cheltenham should not be tossed in against leading older horses. Difficult races break horses, so I'd say Dunguib is best watched in future races.

sting60

He never was the super horse some thought he was.Some think he could win an Ascot gold cup these people are the bookies best buddies.Please refer to pre cheltenham threads regarding same.Its time to close this thread im thinking.