New Satellite Service For UK & Ireland

Mr McBoatface

Fortec Stars new satellite service for the UK & Ireland is currently taking submission from broadcasters to join it's epg service that is going to be provided to the UK and Ireland. The service called "Real Digital" http://www.realdigitaltv.com was granted it's broadcast license by Ofcom on the 30th of March .

The end of May/start of June looks like the launch date. Boxes are due to be in stores on the 28th of May

http://www.realdigitaltv.com/files/letter-to-broadcasters.pdf

Martin_F

I'm not sure that this competition in the EPG market for FTA channels is a good thing.

For the Irish market it looks good - but only if RTE/TV3 were to sign up for regional access via FTV card. But IRL based viewers could also find themselves needing a UK FTV card - if some UK channels went FTV instead of FTA especially on HD channels. Would you be able to get a card with both - or would you have to get 2 cards and keep switching ???

And the the EPG service will only take off if BBC/ITV/C4/Five etc sign up too. These are already signed up to Freesat - would they really switch? or sign up to both (extra cost)? Surely the BBC & ITV would be slow to sign up when they are actually behind Freesat.

Mr McBoatface

From reading the pdf file it seem that BBC, ITV, Five and C4 are "must carry" channels and are going to be the first 5 channels on the EPG.

I honestly don't know but I don't think it's going to be FTV channels only. The PDF file has Pay Per View channels included in it's listing channels 700-799. It only 5 or 6 days until the submission deadline so the site may be undated with more info.

My understanding it's geared as a competitor for Sky. The EPG itself is planned to generate revenue. The PDF file states the EPG main menu will carry banner advertisements , which is something i don't recall Sky's EPG doing.

The box-set I'd say will be made by Fortec Star I doubt the epg will be compatible with any of boxes on the market (at least until some Linux guys start coding), this will make more money for Fortec Star.

I doubt RTE/TV3 will take up on this, but time will tell. For the moment it's really a case of watch this space.

Mike 1972

Cant see what the EPG service offers to broadcasters or viewers that they arent already getting from Freesat.

Im assuming the service is going to use 28 East

Im in two minds about the encryption service. on the one hand Sky have a stranglehold on this market at the moment. On the other hand is the market fragmentation and platform duplication really a good thing ?

L1011

It is going to use 28E.

The must-carry rules in the UK are "The BBC digital services, the Channel 3 services, the Channel 4 service, the Channel 5 service and S4C digital service" off the top of my head so it'll definitely have 1->5 and the other BBC services from day one.

Mr McBoatface

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Cant see what the EPG service offers to broadcasters or viewers that they arent already getting from Freesat.

Im assuming the service is going to use 28 East

Im in two minds about the encryption service. on the one hand Sky have a stranglehold on this market at the moment. On the other hand is the market fragmentation and platform duplication really a good thing ?

It's going to use 28E . Only speculation on my part but it may provide a similar service to freesat but with the options of getting pay TV services if required. Also it will be interesting to see if it offers a FTV card similar to Sky's FTV. Also unlike Freesat it does appear to have considered the Irish Market unless the "Ireland" bit in the phrase "UK & Ireland" refers to the North.

If it offers a FTV card (at a reasonable price) like Sky's with some additional channels like Virgin, Living, E4-HD being decoded I'd sign up for it it a heart beat.

Consumer choice is a good thing, time will tell what services and advantages if any it will provide. If as a response from Sky it drives the cost of the basic Sky package down and aligns the cost to Irish consumers of Sky Ireland to Sky Uk not many would complain.

Edit :- From the website

" Alongside 100s of free channels, REAL Digital will also offer a subscription service for those who want even more TV! The first option works just like a mobile phone with a 'pay as you go' package. When you want to watch, you just need to log onto our website or use your phone to purchase an electronic voucher, which will give you seven days of viewing. That way, you have control over how much you pay each month. It's ideal for those who only watch occasional programmes on pay TV.

The second (and lowest cost) option is to take out a 12-month subscription, enabling you to watch REAL Digital all year round.

Full pricing details will be announced shortly. "

L1011

Ireland is more than an after thought, at that; theres actually a concerted effort being put in to the Irish market by Real due to our lack of a multi-channel DTT system at present.

byte

If RTÉ jumped on board, with a FTV card of some sort, I'd be quite beneficial, especially for areas where DTT might never reach after ASO.

Kristopherus

byte wrote: »

If RTÉ jumped on board, with a FTV card of some sort, I'd be quite beneficial, especially for areas where DTT might never reach after ASO.

Agreed. I wonder what are the chances now that Onevision is gone west ?

Mr McBoatface

I'm not sure RTE would/can come on board, from what I understand (I could be wrong) Sky are covering the cost of carriage on Astra for RTE. It think it was part of the deal Sky struck with RTE to help them break into the Irish market. I've been told in other threads the terms of the RTE/SKY deal aren't fully known, so it's unclear if RTE can come onboard. But if they could it would be a real plus for the new service as far as the Irish market is concerned.

Martin_F

MYOB wrote: »

The must-carry rules in the UK are "The BBC digital services, the Channel 3 services, the Channel 4 service, the Channel 5 service and S4C digital service" off the top of my head so it'll definitely have 1->5 and the other BBC services from day one.

I presume then that they would just be on the EPG for no cost then if they are must carry. All those channels are already FTA so they are 'carried by default' - it's only the EPG that is affected. That certainly gives them something of a starting point. It'll be interesting to see if any of the Irish channels bite.

Mr McBoatface

Martin_F wrote: »

I presume then that they would just be on the EPG for no cost then if they are must carry. All those channels are already FTA so they are 'carried by default' - it's only the EPG that is affected. That certainly gives them something of a starting point. It'll be interesting to see if any of the Irish channels bite.

I think your assumption no fee epg for must carry channels is correct.

Regarding RTE,TV3 etc I just had a thought, Fortec Star whom are behind this new venture make DTT/Sat combo boxes. It would be interesting to see if the make a combo box available for this service that could provide the Real Digital EPG and also carry RTE DTT including epg data. That would be a big selling point !!!

I live in hope:)

JDxtra

If Rapture and Information TV are "partners" I would not hold in much hope for this service - especially in terms of quality.

rabbitsears

I would have thought Real Digital would carry the Irish channels on their service if they sell it into Ireland, thus negating the need for a DTT/SAT combo box.

If RD are to succeed then they will need to carry the full range of UK terrestrials on their Irish service to give themselves a big advantage over Sky.

Minstrel27

rabbitsears wrote: »

If RD are to succeed then they will need to carry the full range of UK terrestrials on their Irish service to give themselves a big advantage over Sky.

If they do then maybe this will make Sky pull the finger out.

slegs

Irish channels will be satellite and encrypted. It wont be FTV. It will be a Sky competitor.

pa990

Minstrel27 wrote: »

If they do then maybe this will make Sky pull the finger out.

Sky can pull what they want, a lot of those that have switched to freesat, won't come back (naturally some will).
RD could possible offer something that the sky user wants, but cheaper.
But for me, and many more, free tv all the way

mike65

http://astra2d.com/real.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1178140

Minstrel27

pa990 wrote: »

Sky can pull what they want, a lot of those that have switched to freesat, won't come back (naturally some will).

Sky will still want to keep what customers they have also. I don't think Sky care about anyone that has left if truth be told.

slegs

This is competition at its best.

Real Digital will offer an alternative at an attractive price. They dont need everyone to move from Sky to make their business viable. Sky customers will get a benefit in that competition with Sky will make Sky's pricing keener. Almost everyone wins. I can never understand why people are so negative about new entrants like Real. I think they are doing something groundbreaking here and I wish them all the best. It is never going to be for everyone and if you are happy with your service and price then stay put.

Mr McBoatface

slegs wrote: »

This is competition at its best.

Real Digital will offer an alternative at an attractive price. They dont need everyone to move from Sky to make their business viable. Sky customers will get a benefit in that competition with Sky will make Sky's pricing keener. Almost everyone wins. I can never understand why people are so negative about new entrants like Real. I think they are doing something groundbreaking here and I wish them all the best. It is never going to be for everyone and if you are happy with your service and price then stay put.

Agree 100% competition is always a good thing. After reading their website more thoroughly it's clear to see the service which they aim to provide is something not availible by freesat or sky "pay as you go" type TV will have a demand. I'm looking forward to seeing the price range and channel line up.

Regarding the quality of service which was commented on earlier, other than boxset variations the picture quality will be the same as Sky and free-sat as it comes from the same source. Regarding channel line up I've no idea but the cost of carriage on the RD EPG does seem very cheap 24,000 for an annual non discounted epg and just 12,000 for the first year it looks OK , I'm not sure how it compares to Sky's or Free-sats EPG cost. I can't see many decent channels turning it down because it costs to much to go on the RD EPG.

Also Free-sat have no active interest in the Irish market and this company has looked at a gap in the market here and decided to target Ireland in their marketing too , they deserve respect for that.

No matter what way you look at it this is a good thing even if RTE aren't available and I wish them all the best.

Hyperupdate

I dont think Real Digital will ever happen:(

Mr McBoatface

Hyperupdate wrote: »

I dont think Real Digital will ever happen:(

It is going to happen , they've got their license from OFCOM , they've already invested time and money in the project . 28th of May is when the first of their receivers will arrive in retail stores.

mjsmyth

As noted above, some of the channels in the UK are "must carry".

If the service is aimed at Ireland, are any of the Irish channels must carry? If so, I would presume that RD could not charge for viewing them.

Any thoughts?

Liam Byrne

rabbitsears wrote: »

I would have thought Real Digital would carry the Irish channels on their service if they sell it into Ireland, thus negating the need for a DTT/SAT combo box.

I presume the point is that the combo box gives them the leverage to be an acceptable option, without the need to disturb the RTE/Sky agreement.

And if there's a single EPG in the combo which allows you to delete rubbish channels, and they also release a "Sky Eye" type option, with a PVR option, I'd consider this in a heartbeat.

Tony

I think the success or not of this in Ireland hinges on A. Whether it carries RTE and B. will they charge for RTE on Free to view (free to air on satellite is not an option unless they fudge it with h.264 or similar) RTE does not have to alter its agreement with sky in order in order to join Real Digital.

If it was me I'd have RTE on as a loss leader and make the money back on the other services. Another point which has been missed on the terrestrial forum discussion is that sky must provide their programmes at a recently lowered wholesale rate so in theory real dig could undercut sky on the own programming. One way to do this is to sell sports without having to take another package in the same way that UPC undercut Sky at present.

mjsmyth wrote: »

As noted above, some of the channels in the UK are "must carry".

If the service is aimed at Ireland, are any of the Irish channels must carry? If so, I would presume that RD could not charge for viewing them.

Any thoughts?

slegs

mjsmyth wrote: »

As noted above, some of the channels in the UK are "must carry".

If the service is aimed at Ireland, are any of the Irish channels must carry? If so, I would presume that RD could not charge for viewing them.

Any thoughts?

What makes you say that? Sky dont offer RTE/TV3/TG4 for free?

byte

slegs wrote: »

What makes you say that? Sky dont offer RTE/TV3/TG4 for free?

Sky refer to them as a "Bonus Mix" which is "free" when you subscribe to any Sky package...

Simlar to cable I suppose.

christo82

I see they've removed the 'COMING SOON' banner on their site and it says launching 'Later in 2010' rather than spring 2010 as it originally said. Don't expect to see it anytime soon.

watty

If it's Free rather than Included, you get it without a sub.

So there are free Channels on Satellite but no free Channels on Cable.

RTE, TV3, TG4 only Free on TV aerial.

Marketing people mean "included" when they say "free". They only mean really free if it says "no purchase/contract required".

STB

So there would be a basic sub for the FTA channels off Astra ?

Am I right in thinking that they are just taking the existing feeds from the existing transponders that are FTA and bundling it with EPG data from their own transponder.

Whats the cost to the punter for this ?

I can see the advantages of offering Sky Sports as a single package on 28.2. Sky are allowing them buy ? Would certainly put to an end the ridiculous monopoly bundling that goes on with sat on 28.2.

It'll be handy for those who dont want/cant have a motorised dish in order to subscribe to Cyfra and the likes for sport. Hope the price point is good.

Even with the combo boxes the barrier has been no access to buy Sky's sports feeds without a proprietry box and having to subscribe to what are basic FTA channels.

Macy0161

A combo DTT/ FTA receiver with a full epg for both I think could make significant inroads here, especially if there were PVR options. If you added the possibility of sports as stand alone subs it could really go places.

snaps

If rumours are right on the DS forums, this venture has now been postponed for a little while longer.