Gilmore wants three leader debate

PomBear

Really annoyed at this

He's pushing the idea that their is only two choices in this election.
We all know chances are it will be a FG/Lab Coalition in government soon. Eamon "we will not be campaigning for the Lisbon Treaty" Gilmore is pushing this idea. Truth is in cases of democracy, there are still the Greens and SF who have a good chance of being decisive in the next GE and I no longer consider Gilmore left wing as he wants to leave out these two left wing parties and wants to be his usual undemocratic self

Referring to the current British general election campaign Mr Gilmore said it was significant that British broadcasters had insisted on the inclusion of the leader of the Liberal Democrats in the televised debates.

”I now want to put Irish broadcasters and Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael on notice that we will be seeking a similar three way leaders’ debate for our own general election. Depending on what poll you read, there is no more than about twelve percentage points covering the support for Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and Labour. This roughly similar to the spread covering the three main parties in the UK.”

He said that Labour would contest the next general election as an independent party seeking a mandate to lead the next government.

“The political landscape in this country has changed. Irish politics is now a three horse race and the Labour Party will not accept any attempt by Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael or RTÉ to relegate us into some sort of second division.

”We will use every measure possible to ensure that we are given an opportunity to put our case to the Irish people on the same basis as other parties,” said Mr Gilmore.

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0416/breaking81.html?via=news

Dannyboy83

Greens are as good as gone. The people who are motivated enough to vote for them demand integrity and the Greens have shattered theirs.
(Destruction of the greens and Pds is good news for FG imo, as it will consolidate the vote, but just as likely that there will be equally as many abstentions)

Nobody who takes the country seriously would vote SF, it's more of a protest vote.

FF have their hard core 25% who will probably come out in force for the most part, but will lose all their swing.
Most FFers would rather abstain than vote FG, so pissed off FFers will either abstain or vote Labour if they have public servants in the family or are on social.

People who vote Labour will do so for the same old reasons anyway, as above and some swing gains.

FG will have good gains based on their policies, a lot of ABFF votes and some of the swing gains.

I think FG might just pull off a majority, but it could just as easily end up a FF/Lab coalition as a FG/Lab coalition.:D

FG majority - country saved.
Anything else - country screwed.

That said, a week is a long time in politics:pac:
==

From the British boards I've been looking at, a lot of people are citing BNP as their 'protest vote' party, the usual people have the usual reasons for voting Labour or Conservative, and Lib Dem are gaining ground for people who want 'change', but I expect UKIP and BNP will sap up enough of their votes to prevent any real change.

danman

Personally, I think leader debates are pointless, both here and, as was the case last night, and in britain.

TD's are public representitives. They represent the the people in the their locality.

I've never voted for a party leader in my life.

I vote for the person that most represents my thoughts and my concerns for my area.

This is a taboo subject on these boards, but that is what a public representives means. Represent the public in your area.

If I'd voted for a leader, I certainly wouldn't have voted for FG in the last GE. I'd have voted for a labour party candidate that I don't think can even spell his name, not less represent me in the Dail.

We're not voting for a President, like in the US. This is where a debate amongst candidates makes sense.

Debates are fine, they iron out policy. But in our system, the voter should vote for the candidate, not the party. Or for that matter, the leader of a party.

Dannyboy83

As long as we have whips and pairing arrangements, I don't see that we have any choice but to vote for the party with the best policy.
Our representatives don't really represent us.
We elect them and they decide for us - or they are told how to decide for us.

If I was to vote for who I perceive to be the best candidate, I'd probably be voting for Michael Martin.
I'd rather eat my own toe than put FF back in and I firmly believe that FG have the policies that will drag this country out of the burning wreck we are in, so I will be voting for the party, based on their policies, rather than the candidate based on proven or perceived ability.

goat2

Guilmore will wipe the floor with them, he is a brilliant speaker, the others have to have it written on a bit of a4 paper.
i hope he gets this thing rolling
will be brilliant

bijapos

i'd be in favour of a leadership debate, at the end of the day the buck stops with them, and a live debate can show us a lot more about the people charged with running the country than a carefullt choreograpehd interview. Camerons performance on Thursday was a good example of this. I remember in the US the reaction when McCain jerked his thumb at Obama and said "that guy" during one of their debates, it convinced a number of swing voters to go with Obama. No idea if it changed the final result but still....

If the debate were to happen in Ireland I suppose 3 leaders would be more practical in a debate than 5, but by rights SF and the Greens should be there too.

Flamed Diving

They are joint press conferences, not debates.

toiletduck

Did we not have debates last time round? I remember the McDowell, Sargent, Rabitte and Adams ("the left, the far left and the leftovers" :pac: ) but can't recall one with FG and FF...

orourkeda

I'm no fianna fail supporter, but if Brian Cowen couldnt make a serious impact during a debate like this then he has no business in politics let alone as taoiseach.

Given his legal background public speaking should be a strength

tim_holsters

Gilmore is the most impressive of the 3 main party leaders without question.

Denerick

A debate in Britain might work because the party leaders all have (Even if you disagree with them or not) charisma (Clegg) gravitas (Brown) and presence (Cameron) Whereas in Ireland we have a moaner (Gilmore) an uncharismatic bat (Kenny) and a twat (Cowen)

Also Gilmore is clearly hoping that a leader debate will benefit the third party, especially among the young, as it has done in Britain.

Bottle_of_Smoke

toiletduck wrote: »

Did we not have debates last time round? I remember the McDowell, Sargent, Rabitte and Adams ("the left, the far left and the leftovers" :pac: ) but can't recall one with FG and FF...

There was also one between Bertie and Enda

eoin5

Why not have one with all the party leaders on Frontline some night. Give everyone a say loike.

Dannyboy83

Denerick wrote: »

A debate in Britain might work because the party leaders all have (Even if you disagree with them or not) charisma (Clegg) gravitas (Brown) and presence (Cameron) Whereas in Ireland we have a moaner (Gilmore) an uncharismatic bat (Kenny) and a twat (Cowen)

I did laugh, but the brits say the exact same thing;
Brown - Big one eyed Scottish Twat
Cameron - Little Lord Fauntleroy
Clegg - Can't hear you, come again
BNP - Racist!!

Also Gilmore is clearly hoping that a leader debate will benefit the third party, especially among the young, as it has done in Britain.

Agree

goat2

tim_holsters wrote: »

Gilmore is the most impressive of the 3 main party leaders without question.

the other two will not want that, they know they could not hold a candle to guilmore,
they will use every excuse not to
wait and see

Denerick

goat2 wrote: »

the other two will not want that, they know they could not hold a candle to guilmore,
they will use every excuse not to
wait and see

Fanboy. Gilmore is as uncharismatic and dull as every other public figure on this island.

10000maniacs

danman wrote: »

Personally, I think leader debates are pointless, both here and, as was the case last night, and in britain.

I don't necessarally agree.
The ITV debate certainly boosted Clegg in the polls. In one poll tomorrow The Lib Dems will be top.

The Volt

Denerick wrote: »

Fanboy. Gilmore is as uncharismatic and dull as every other public figure on this island.

Speak for yourself. Just out of his speech at conference. Well worth a look

http://labour.ie/

Stroke Politics

Shrewd move by Labour. If FF/FG allow him into the debate he'd devour Brian Cowan and pick his teeth with Inda Kinny. If FF/FG object, the LP can say that they're afraid of him. The minor match won't happen in the run-up to the next GE. The Greens are like Monty Python's parrot, so there is no point bringing them up to the table at all. And I never want to waste 40 minutes I will NEVER have again listening to whingy Uncle Gerry offloading about rights.

Gilmore has every right to be in the debate, as he has as solid claim on the job of Taoiseach as Cowan and Kenny. John Bruton was Taoiseach with 45 seats; I wouldn't bet against Gilmore as the next Taoiseach.....

nesf

Voltwad wrote: »

Speak for yourself. Just out of his speech at conference. Well worth a look

http://labour.ie/

Populist nonsense interspersed with buzzwords and delusions of majority Government.

Seth Brundle

nesf wrote: »

Populist nonsense interspersed with buzzwords and delusions of majority Government.

Hey, don't knock it - its worked for many years!

goat2

Stroke Politics wrote: »

Shrewd move by Labour. If FF/FG allow him into the debate he'd devour Brian Cowan and pick his teeth with Inda Kinny. If FF/FG object, the LP can say that they're afraid of him. The minor match won't happen in the run-up to the next GE. The Greens are like Monty Python's parrot, so there is no point bringing them up to the table at all. And I never want to waste 40 minutes I will NEVER have again listening to whingy Uncle Gerry offloading about rights.

Gilmore has every right to be in the debate, as he has as solid claim on the job of Taoiseach as Cowan and Kenny. John Bruton was Taoiseach with 45 seats; I wouldn't bet against Gilmore as the next Taoiseach.....

my wish is this
guilmore to be next tiosach, and the sooner the better, seems to be a very down to earth man.
should think no skeletons in this mans closet

FlutterinBantam

Voltwad wrote: »

Speak for yourself. Just out of his speech at conference. Well worth a look

http://labour.ie/

With all due respect, anyone who chooses a leader based on speeches rather than policies is, well a bit challenged.

What this country needs is people who can get things done rather than rhetorical wafflers whose policies would ruin the place and reward the 'waster'.
Both Big hair Burton and Gilmore waffled and evaded all direct questions at the time of the PS cuts.

I don't see any stand out in that field looming on the political horizon.

A good example was Morning Ireland some time ago with Mary O'Rourke getting all hissy over Richie Boucher's pension arrangements!!!

Then she admits she can do nothing about the arrangement.

She of course doesn't mention her own pension arrangements, which in my opinion are way more out of kilter that Mr. Boucher's.

Biggins

Any debate is good I feel.

NOT for showing the arguments between the personalties on show but for showing the actual differences between the opposing organisations.

The British debate (as boring as it was at times) showed just that.
It showed through talk and information given, where the side oppose each other exactly!
(Clegg did a brilliant job of this alone)
Its those points that will help me decide what way to vote for the local man/woman in my area also representing those opinions.

Those doing the debating are not just debating for themselves on some fateful day, they are debating, representing their party and also their local rep' - and that is just as important as themselves up there on the podiums.

Denerick

goat2 wrote: »

With all due respect, anyone who chooses a leader based on speeches rather than policies is, well a bit challenged

well with all due respect to you, the crowd we now have ff and g god help us
up with the price of everything, in with water charges up with heating, food had come down but has crept way up
what will pay for it without income
down with wages and jobs

They took our jobs!