A.E.O.S. meeting in Galway last night

johngalway

I attended the A.E.O.S. information meeting in the Clayton Hotel in Galway last night. They had rented out a large ballroom, and laid on 3-400 seats. If there were 50 people there it was a lot...

I wonder were meetings in other parts of the country as poorly attended.

There will be large enough planner fee's for anyone with Natura Commonage from last nights questions. The way they deal with the capital costs are a bit ridiculous, shell out X amount of money and be repaid over the 5 years. Have they not noticed the recession?

Ms. Ka

only 50 people really? I was going to go to the meeting but I had already been to the Tullamore meeting on the Monday and I thought there would be standing room only.

It was proably a little too far for some farmers coming from Connemara.

mossfort

johngalway wrote: »

I attended the A.E.O.S. information meeting in the Clayton Hotel in Galway last night. They had rented out a large ballroom, and laid on 3-400 seats. If there were 50 people there it was a lot...

I wonder were meetings in other parts of the country as poorly attended.

There will be large enough planner fee's for anyone with Natura Commonage from last nights questions. The way they deal with the capital costs are a bit ridiculous, shell out X amount of money and be repaid over the 5 years. Have they not noticed the recession?

it probally gives an indication of the level of interest in the AEOS scheme from farmers . the whole scheme is too expensive to get into for the amount of payment it gives. money has never been as tight for farmers so i think they wont be interested in paying out for materials and having to wait to recoup the cost. i think it would pay better to increase your stocking rate and make do without the scheme at all. and for anyone whos REPS3 contract finishes after the deadline for the aeos they have to wait till next year .

johngalway

Ms. Ka wrote: »

only 50 people really? I was going to go to the meeting but I had already been to the Tullamore meeting on the Monday and I thought there would be standing room only.

It was proably a little too far for some farmers coming from Connemara.

How many attended the Tullamore meeting if I may ask? There were some really flippant remarks coming down from the top table in Galway to be brutally honest, they should have stuck to the facts instead of giving ludicrous directions like they did.

I'm farming in West Connemara, but, was hill walking in Achill Thursday. Left there at 3pm and headed for the city via Leenane, despite my skepticism of the scheme I wanted to see what I could find out.

If I want to get into it I'll need to have a sustainable grazing and management plan drawn up for my SAC commonage land, which will have to include an environmental report, or Natura commonage as it's known now I guess.

I asked if the Department had costed this in any way, while they said it wasn't their end of the scheme really they did say that the cost would be something like €7 per hectare of Natura commonage. That's €7 X ALL of your Natura commonage hectares X 5 years :eek: Despite the fact I'd only get paid on something like 66.6 hectares, to make up my cap of €5k. Then all my costs comes out of that €5k! :eek:

Now, the environmental scientist that I'd have to employ has to compare the state of my commonages now compared to when the Commonage Framework Plan was drawn up 10 years ago! The CFP was supposed to be reviewed 5 years ago, but only a tiny bit was. So now farmers joining this scheme with Natura commonage will also have the pleasure of paying an environmental scientist to do the work the Department should already have done :mad:

If a farmers Natura commonage is found to be overgrazed, or the damage has increased since the initial CFP, he'll be cut in numbers that can go to the hill!

So where does that leave me. I've four weeks to decide if I want in or not. But, after I shell out for a plan I may potentially be cut in numbers if the report goes against the commonage (which is shared and unfenced by the way). I could possibly end up paying for the damage other people have done.

johngalway

mossfort wrote: »

it probally gives an indication of the level of interest in the AEOS scheme from farmers . the whole scheme is too expensive to get into for the amount of payment it gives. money has never been as tight for farmers so i think they wont be interested in paying out for materials and having to wait to recoup the cost. i think it would pay better to increase your stocking rate and make do without the scheme at all. and for anyone whos REPS3 contract finishes after the deadline for the aeos they have to wait till next year .

You're right. There was a lad there who's REPS 3 ends near the end of May, the closing date for A.E.O.S is may 17th, he was told he won't be let in, so he walked out then and there. The way they've handled the capital costs is a nonsense, I'm unclear how they handle the labour input costs of the farmer but there was a lot of flippant remarks made about that also.

johngalway

johngalway wrote: »

I could possibly end up paying for the damage other people have done.

I bet this will end up like the "polluters pay" nonsense where those who over stocked hills got money for taking the sheep off, but the responsible farmer also had sheep removed despite having sensible stocking rates on their farm.

Ms. Ka

johngalway wrote: »

How many attended the Tullamore meeting if I may ask? There were some really flippant remarks coming down from the top table in Galway to be brutally honest, they should have stuck to the facts instead of giving ludicrous directions like they did.

It was the afternoon meeting for the agricultural advisors so the meeting was fairly full. The DAFF representives werent that great to be honest and were vague with answers that needed a yes/no reply. At one point the woman giving the presentation asked the crowd the answer to a question that she had been asked about Milk partnerships.

They are going back to Brussels to see if they can increase the payment for natura land to €150/ha but we wouldnt find that out anytime soon. So a farmer with Natura land might take on extra options trying to make the €5000 target at €75/ha on Natura land only to find out that he is getting €150 for it and has been committed to doing extra work for "free".

Another issue raised at the meeting was the consistancy of the sustainable managment plan. Its unrealistic to think that a advisor is going to walk every inch of a commonage to assess it and a different advisor might make different destocking recommendations for the same commonage. Most planners will probably stay close to the CFP for advise.

My own isssue with the scheme is that they launched it and they hadnt completely ironed out the problems and it will end up like REPS 4 with plans going backwards and forwards between the dept. and the advisors.

hairyeggs

johngalway wrote: »

I attended the A.E.O.S. information meeting in the Clayton Hotel in Galway last night. They had rented out a large ballroom, and laid on 3-400 seats. If there were 50 people there it was a lot...

The same in Cork, about 40 in a room for 200. One of the Dept speakers actually commented on how disappointed they were with the turnout.

johngalway

Ms. Ka wrote: »

It was the afternoon meeting for the agricultural advisors so the meeting was fairly full. The DAFF representives werent that great to be honest and were vague with answers that needed a yes/no reply. At one point the woman giving the presentation asked the crowd the answer to a question that she had been asked about Milk partnerships.

They are going back to Brussels to see if they can increase the payment for natura land to €150/ha but we wouldnt find that out anytime soon. So a farmer with Natura land might take on extra options trying to make the €5000 target at €75/ha on Natura land only to find out that he is getting €150 for it and has been committed to doing extra work for "free".

Another issue raised at the meeting was the consistancy of the sustainable managment plan. Its unrealistic to think that a advisor is going to walk every inch of a commonage to assess it and a different advisor might make different destocking recommendations for the same commonage. Most planners will probably stay close to the CFP for advise.

My own isssue with the scheme is that they launched it and they hadnt completely ironed out the problems and it will end up like REPS 4 with plans going backwards and forwards between the dept. and the advisors.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there Ms. Ka, I've a lot more commonage than the 66.6 hectares to make my €5k so it makes sweet FA difference if it goes to €150 for me. The planners are going to clean up IMO, I'd also agree with your assessment of their assessment of the commonages, sure the CFP is there, won't that do grand, more work done for them so get through the customers faster.

There were a couple of other Connemara farmers I met there, neither were impressed. I think we'll all go home and do our sums but I'd expect the uptake to be low TBH.

agcons

I was at both Tullamore meetings, about 70 at the farmers one. Get the impression at times that it is still being made up as they go along. very little interst from farmers so far. Only money is in the hay meadow and trad grazing, but no details to help farmers identify the relevant varieties. Comments from the top table about how they will be lenient/not too hard on farmers in years to come if correct varieties are not present but i'll believe that when it happens. We tried to get farmers to take these options in REPS 3 but most just didnt fit the criteria so I dont see how they can do it now.
Most of the measures are only usefull if you intended doing the work anyway, eg the water troughs
Dept talking out of both sides as far as i can see, telling farmers they dont need planners then running meetings for us and encouraging us to get farmers into the scheme. IFA no better, publicly knocking planners then looking for us to work with them. Planner should have been costed into the scheme same as other inputs, from the start.
At this stage most of us are up to our eyes in area aids so no time to work on the scheme anyway, certainly no time for farm visits or onsite assessments.:(

mr jack

In the terms and conditions,5.8.3 and 5.8.4 specifically.

In general I think the info provided by DAFF has been quite good and clear but these 2 conditions are not so clear. I have not been involved in REPS before so not sure how these things operate.

5.8.3. Receipts must be provided in support of claims for payment.

If the cost of lets say, orchard trees, only costs you €40 per tree, do you only get the €40 spread over 5 years or the €75 that's set out in Annex 3?

5.8.4. Recognition will be given in payment for non-productive capital investments for a participant’s own labour.

How does this operate? If I plant a hedge, does that labour count? How do I price my own labour? If payment is given, does this form part of the €5,000 or is it separate?

Any answers would be appreciated?

johngalway

mr jack wrote: »

In the terms and conditions,5.8.3 and 5.8.4 specifically.

In general I think the info provided by DAFF has been quite good and clear but these 2 conditions are not so clear. I have not been involved in REPS before so not sure how these things operate.

5.8.3. Receipts must be provided in support of claims for payment.

If the cost of lets say, orchard trees, only costs you €40 per tree, do you only get the €40 spread over 5 years or the €75 that's set out in Annex 3?

5.8.4. Recognition will be given in payment for non-productive capital investments for a participant’s own labour.

How does this operate? If I plant a hedge, does that labour count? How do I price my own labour? If payment is given, does this form part of the €5,000 or is it separate?

Any answers would be appreciated?

They will decide what your labour is worth, not the other way around. Some people did try to get the info out of the head table, specifically about labour but to be honest they didn't get a concrete answer. €5,000 is the top payment for absolutely everything, no matter how much labour, how many hectares or how many measures you choose.

As for the €40 tree, I think that's spread over 5 years, but I am open to correction on that as it won't apply to me so I didn't pay it a huge amount of attention.

sculptor

The journal stated that there was a 10 LU. limit on the Rare Irish Breeds Checked with the dept. of agri. there is no 10 lu. limit. The only limit is the €5000/annum. There is a lot of misinformation and confusion about this scheme.
If farmers dont apply for this lousy scheme they will put in place an even worst scheme for the rest of us when we leave REPS 4. So its not in our interests for IFA, the journal, and planners to be discouraging farmers from applying.

johngalway

I don't believe it's a political issue, I believe it's just not worth joining. There was, I may be corrected on this, a LU limit on rare breeds at first but that was removed.

sculptor

You may be right that it's not worth joining, but where do we go from here? If farmers dont participate then the government wont be meeting the biodiversity and genetic conservation objectives laid down by the EU. they think they can ignore it for ten years like they did with the Nitrates Directive and look at the fiasco that turned into. There is a lot of money at stake here that should be going into farmers pockets and not siphoned off somewhere else.

johngalway

sculptor wrote: »

You may be right that it's not worth joining, but where do we go from here? If farmers dont participate then the government wont be meeting the biodiversity and genetic conservation objectives laid down by the EU. they think they can ignore it for ten years like they did with the Nitrates Directive and look at the fiasco that turned into. There is a lot of money at stake here that should be going into farmers pockets and not siphoned off somewhere else.

The Government ignored EU warnings in the past, which led to a 20% compulsory destocking where I live (even though we'd done no over grazing), in short, I'm not particularly worried about them.

I'd be more inclined to stay out of it and start agitating for a better one. The fact that the people sent out to inform the farmers couldn't answer a fair few basic questions simply tells me a lot. How would ya fare in an inspection if the scheme itself isn't clear. So far the discussion has been about input costs and total money out of the scheme, if you get penalised then there's more fun and games.

Understand where yer coming from, and it'll suit some right enough.