Irish Naturalisation Decision - Wife YES,Husband NO

rolion · 16-04-2010 10:36am #1

Hi,

Please feel free to move the topic if is not fitting in the right section

OK,my problem...here in Ireland since 96.Came together,my wife and myself.
We've applied for naturalization few years ago,when we felt that we are ready and feeling alright for the change.

We submitted individual applications as per law,received registration numbers,waited 3 years,then...surprise:my lovely wife received the letter saying that she is approved and weeks latter myself same envelope,except being ticker and few pages explaining why my application has been refused ! ! ! Guess what...i've been in court few times for traffic offenses,all cases being dismissed by the judge ! And ,on top of that ,really pissed me off the reason:having criminal records in the State ! !

I'm driving hundreds of miles per week,nationwide,So,being caught in a traffic issues,not being happy and then escalating to judge,makes sense for me ! And,even the future doesn't look different due to same job nature...

Just minutes ago,i've received a letter from DoJ,for my wife.They are requesting updates on her application and saying that if further delays are being encountered,her application can be reviewed and eventually can be reconsidered by them ! ! ! We kind of consolation that i can't get one,but now this letter really scared me...

I mean...we came a family and we stay a family,no matter what reviews they will do to her application ! My hopes of getting a passport has been put off for a decade at least ! Also,i won't be happy that my wife has Irish passport and myself not..also,she is not happy either ! We are EU Citizens so ,getting an Irish passport is not our priority,but we like to get one as a payback for 15 years being here...

Also,for the kids,so talking about passports and travel and Visas should not be a reason for worries any more.When we traveled,we used to put kids passports on top,so the fcukers at the border to look with another set of mentality to ourselves when presenting for check-in !

Then...kids,how can i explain to my teenagers what is the story with the passports ! ? ?

Can i postpone her application until we really are ready ? For how long ? How ?

Any help will be appreciated !
Thanks...

dlofnep · 16-04-2010 10:42am

rolion wrote: »

Guess what...i've been in court few times for traffic offenses,all cases being dismissed by the judge ! And ,on top of that ,really pissed me off the reason:having criminal records in the State ! !

I'm driving hundreds of miles per week,nationwide,So,being caught in a traffic issues,not being happy and then escalating to judge,makes sense for me ! And,even the future doesn't look different due to same job nature...

Could you explain that sentence?

You've been in court, the cases were dismissed - so how exactly do you have a criminal record?

rolion · 16-04-2010 11:09am

Is a long story,15 years...

-two of them being that i didn't have the insurance disk displayed,despite being insured by company online.given 10 days,forgot or ignore it then went in court,all papers looked ok,case dismissed
-other time,stopped in the middle of the nowhere by officer,driving with speed,i said prove it,asked for photo,never received technical prove or a photo,went to court,case dismissed...
-other time,received directly summon to court for parking fine,never received ticket before by post,case dismissed.
-other time,going directly to court for using the bus lane to turn left,despite the traffic being mad,i had to use the bus lane for turning left,IT was completely empty...An officer saw me and report it,never received letter,just an officer at the door with the summons for court.Explained to judge that the entrance on the customer premises is on the bus lane...i had to use a bus lane in order to enter through front gate,case dismissed.
-lastly,caught phone while driving,gave my address,waiting for ticket by post,never received by post ,even today.I forgot about it,but is on the letter from DoJ ! ! !

I'm saying all these here as a learned lesson and advisory for the potential applicants for a passport ! !

What drives me mad is..if i have to pay a fine,is my fault is ok,but..
WHY ARE NOT THEY GETTING A REGISTERED LETTER SENT WITH THE TICKET/INVOICE/FINE BY POST IN THE FIRST INSTANCE ! ? ? ?

dlofnep · 16-04-2010 11:19am

I asked you how you have a criminal record. You cannot have a criminal record if the case is thrown out. What exactly was it you were convicted for?

MagicSean · 16-04-2010 11:22am

Where all the cases dismissed or did you have to pay the original fine?

rolion · 16-04-2010 11:25am

Criminal records for these traffic offenses...i came here with the document from my Country' Police stating that i do not have any records on their system since being borned, i'm driving since 2001 with only one accident involved in 1993 in my home country.

Dismissed, i never paid any fees off these cases.Paid alright the others,but none of the fees resulted from this cases.

MagicSean · 16-04-2010 11:28am

rolion wrote: »

Criminal records for these traffic offenses...i came here with the document from my Country' Police stating that i do not have any records on their system since being borned, i'm driving since 2001 with only one accident involved in 1993 in my home country.

Dismissed, i never paid any fees off these cases.Paid alright the others,but none of the fees resulted from this cases.

What others? How many fines have you gotten?

dlofnep · 16-04-2010 11:34am

rolion wrote: »

Criminal records for these traffic offenses...i came here with the document from my Country' Police stating that i do not have any records on their system since being borned, i'm driving since 2001 with only one accident involved in 1993 in my home country.

Dismissed, i never paid any fees off these cases.Paid alright the others,but none of the fees resulted from this cases.

I'm sorry, but your record doesn't look very good.

You do not get a criminal record if your case is dismissed. So I repeat, what exactly were you convicted of?

rolion · 16-04-2010 11:35am

Ok,found the letter for me:

after is listing all the dates and times...
Comments: "my name" has come to adverse Garda attention as detailed.A further Garda Report dated x.x/2009 indicated that there are no further outcomes in relation to the offences listed above.
However has he a criminal record in State.

Recommendation: Not recommended . For Minister's decision please ?

then,in listing all 5 conflicting situations:

-appeal allowed,produced documents,all in order.
-penal warrant canceled.
-no court outcome.
-non conviction dismissed facts proved (evidence heard).
-no court outcome summons no:xxx issued / approved by courts for service.

TBH,i have no idea what these means,i spoke to a friend,i'm going to search for legal aid for my wife.Myself,i forget it...ignore it... it !

Any help re my wife !? Anyone in the same situation ??

OhNoYouDidn't · 16-04-2010 11:39am

If I am reading this correctly, its the old 'known to the Gardaí line'. Although he wasn't convicted of anything, they threw that line in anyway.

This needs to go to a solicitor for review.

rolion · 16-04-2010 12:02pm

I've been in Courts for five times,as per their records.

Other fines are for traffic offenses that i was aware of it OR letters came home and paid them at the Ticket Office in O'Connell Street.

I repeat..all offenses were and are (and will be) traffic related !
that's it: i'm a bad driver ! ! But i don't my wife to be affected because of my behavior.

Please advise...
Thanks.

k_mac wrote: »

What others? How many fines have you gotten?

MagicSean · 16-04-2010 12:10pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

If I am reading this correctly, its the old 'known to the Gardaí line'. Although he wasn't convicted of anything, they threw that line in anyway.

This needs to go to a solicitor for review.

From the list he gave it appears he has two cases which hae not been dealt with yet. And as he said he has a number of previous fines which he paid. It would give the impression of someone who does not obey traffic laws at all. But I would agree. You should consult your solicitor.

MagicSean · 16-04-2010 12:11pm

rolion wrote: »

I've been in Courts for five times,as per their records.

Other fines are for traffic offenses that i was aware of it OR letters came home and paid them at the Ticket Office in O'Connell Street.

I repeat..all offenses were and are (and will be) traffic related !
that's it: i'm a bad driver ! ! But i don't my wife to be affected because of my behavior.

Please advise...
Thanks.

I don't really know what you are asking. I thought your wife was accepted.

rolion · 16-04-2010 12:18pm

Hi,

Yes,only one open case,the last one which i suspect is the phone while driving,as i haven't heard nothing from them...I may have to chase it myself ,with a great pleasure !

k_mac wrote: »

From the list he gave it appears he has two cases which hae not been dealt with yet. And as he said he has a number of previous fines which he paid. It would give the impression of someone who does not obey traffic laws at all. But I would agree. You should consult your solicitor.

@ K_mac

The Question is: Can DoJ review and cancel an approved application for citizenship if you don't take any action for a period of time !?
Let's say,my wife won't apply for it,can we keep the decision active and apply for passport later,it could be years ! ? ?

Someone mentioned they can assume that you don't want the passport and they can pursue the case and...cancel the decision !

Is it possible ? i thought that once approved you don't have to be live and active the following ...day !

I know what people might think:she got what you wanted and now is fussy ! But doesn't look like that ! Imagine yourself living with another person that doesn't have the same rights or freedom like yourself !! Explain to your kids why they are Irish and you not ! Then more,explain why mum is and dad not ! Can you...? I can't take this bs any more,i've been dealing with for years.

Cookie_Monster · 16-04-2010 12:27pm

Maybe they see you as a risk having been in court so often (despite not been found guilty of anything) the way you explain things looks like you only got off on a technicality each time.

I'm not familiar with the exact requirement but that's what immediately jumps out at me.

MagicSean · 16-04-2010 1:05pm

rolion wrote: »

Hi,

Yes,only one open case,the last one which i suspect is the phone while driving,as i haven't heard nothing from them...I may have to chase it myself ,with a great pleasure !

@ K_mac

The Question is: Can DoJ review and cancel an approved application for citizenship if you don't take any action for a period of time !?
Let's say,my wife won't apply for it,can we keep the decision active and apply for passport later,it could be years ! ? ?

Someone mentioned they can assume that you don't want the passport and they can pursue the case and...cancel the decision !

Is it possible ? i thought that once approved you don't have to be live and active the following ...day !

I know what people might think:she got what you wanted and now is fussy ! But doesn't look like that ! Imagine yourself living with another person that doesn't have the same rights or freedom like yourself !! Explain to your kids why they are Irish and you not ! Then more,explain why mum is and dad not ! Can you...? I can't take this bs any more,i've been dealing with for years.

But if you are both EU citizens what extra rights would she have?

Fuhrer · 16-04-2010 1:12pm

rolion wrote: »

Is a long story,15 years...

-two of them being that i didn't have the insurance disk displayed,despite being insured by company online.given 10 days,forgot or ignore it then went in court,all papers looked ok,case dismissed
-other time,stopped in the middle of the nowhere by officer,driving with speed,i said prove it,asked for photo,never received technical prove or a photo,went to court,case dismissed...
-other time,received directly summon to court for parking fine,never received ticket before by post,case dismissed.
-other time,going directly to court for using the bus lane to turn left,despite the traffic being mad,i had to use the bus lane for turning left,IT was completely empty...An officer saw me and report it,never received letter,just an officer at the door with the summons for court.Explained to judge that the entrance on the customer premises is on the bus lane...i had to use a bus lane in order to enter through front gate,case dismissed.
-lastly,caught phone while driving,gave my address,waiting for ticket by post,never received by post ,even today.I forgot about it,but is on the letter from DoJ ! ! !

I'm saying all these here as a learned lesson and advisory for the potential applicants for a passport ! !

What drives me mad is..if i have to pay a fine,is my fault is ok,but..
WHY ARE NOT THEY GETTING A REGISTERED LETTER SENT WITH THE TICKET/INVOICE/FINE BY POST IN THE FIRST INSTANCE ! ? ? ?

Dont mean to seem offensive here but you seem to have used every loophole to get out of paying your fines, seems karma has caught up to you.

Martin 2 · 16-04-2010 1:14pm

k_mac wrote: »

But if you are both EU citizens what extra rights would she have?

The right to vote in general elections and referenda... currently only available to Irish citizens

Edit: British citizens also have the right to vote in general elections... thanks Taram.

OhNoYouDidn't · 16-04-2010 1:17pm

k_mac wrote: »

From the list he gave it appears he has two cases which hae not been dealt with yet. And as he said he has a number of previous fines which he paid. It would give the impression of someone who does not obey traffic laws at all. But I would agree. You should consult your solicitor.

Hardly grounds to reject a naturalisation application though...

If, and thats the operative word, the OP is telling the whole story, something is definitlly amiss.

sideshowsue · 16-04-2010 1:19pm

Unfortunately, one of the conditions to be naturalized is 'to be of good character.' This is a fairly broad statement and open to a variety of interpretations. Sadly for you, though, the Minister has decided that since you have accumulated so many driving offences that have ended up in court (albeit dismissed), your 'character' is unsuitable.

You can try appealing the decision, but honestly, I don't think it'll go anywhere. You're at the whim and mercy of the Minister's discretion.

Just to add, all applications for naturalization have to be squeaky-clean. That essentially means, no court appearances, no access to public funds, not overdrawn on your bank account, no social welfare, no public housing, financially self-sufficient or fully employed. If you fall down on any of these accounts, your application is likely to be rejected.

taram · 16-04-2010 1:24pm

Martin 2 wrote: »

The right to vote in general elections and referenda... currently only available to Irish citizens

British citizens have a right to vote in general elections, as we do in theirs also.

OP: do your kids have Irish passports? Or if not, your wife could become a citizen then get theirs, and you could try yours again later after all your court stuff is sorted. Either way, a lawyer should be your next stop, they'll be able to either tell you exactly why you can't be approved, or fight it on your behalf.

rolion · 16-04-2010 1:27pm

thanks to all !

is there a time limit / period /restriction that DoJ can produce if you don't go ahead with the cert of naturalization and/or passport normal steps !?

thanks.

sideshowsue · 16-04-2010 1:44pm

rolion wrote: »

thanks to all !

is there a time limit / period /restriction that DoJ can produce if you don't go ahead with the cert of naturalization and/or passport normal steps !?

thanks.

Looking at the letter I received back in July 2009, it says that any delay in completing the procedures 'could result in an increased fee being imposed before a certificate is issued.'

Frankly, though, I think it's totally inappropriate to delay your wife's naturalization simply because you wouldn't be happy that she holds an Irish passport and you don't. Why should she be penalized because of your run-ins with the Guards?

rolion · 16-04-2010 2:00pm

Simple...we have a mortgage since 1999...3 kids ,all with Irish passes.
WHAT IF...i'm dying ? What is she's going !?
What if...we divorce ? She's Irish,i'm not ! Can i be kicked off so f easy...who has rights ? Me a f foreigner OR she,an Irish citizen ! ? ? ? Can a non-Irish person ask this Q ,with his feelings and/or experience ??? I know lots of friends which wifes dropped them for Irish man,kicking their ass until they got on the streets,at zero ...

Traveling...typical Q:sorry,why 4 Irish pass and one not ? apply for Visas only for myself ? ? ? Explain to Embassy that your wife has no need while you need ! Get all the family waiting until me in the airport ,the poor third world bastard completes all the papers in order to enter the X country ! !
Have you ever needed a 52 pages fax sent in order to get a fcuink travel Visa ?!

Explain to the kids...why ! ? Come on ,be serious !!

Do you know that in my own country,my Irish kids are foreigners ?? We have to pay all for them,from hospital to education ! Then,in case of...i'm not holding any "ownership" over them as they are Irish and i'm not !

Myself,i took away the mind from Irish Passport,i'm not going to change my driving habit:if stopped in the traffic for speed, i'm going to ask for technical evidence.If not presented,i'm heading to Court.And so on...with all due respect to Garda Officials ! ! !

So,i'm asking again,for my wife:excepting the fees,nothing can force her in getting it later !?

astrofool · 16-04-2010 2:01pm

Let your wife continue applying.

Go see a solicitor yourself, tidy up your outstanding traffic offences, and take it from there.

If you have a EU passport, then you can't be kicked out of the country for any reason (bar being extradited).

Your kids were born in Ireland, you were not born in Ireland, they are Irish, you are not until you pass naturalisation.

You need to talk to a solicitor about your wife, I don't see any good reason why you would delay her application from being processed.

MagicSean · 16-04-2010 2:22pm

rolion wrote: »

Simple...we have a mortgage since 1999...3 kids ,all with Irish passes.
WHAT IF...i'm dying ? What is she's going !?
What if...we divorce ? She's Irish,i'm not ! Can i be kicked off so f easy...who has rights ? Me a f foreigner OR she,an Irish citizen ! ? ? ? Can a non-Irish person ask this Q ,with his feelings and/or experience ??? I know lots of friends which wifes dropped them for Irish man,kicking their ass until they got on the streets,at zero ...

Traveling...typical Q:sorry,why 4 Irish pass and one not ? apply for Visas only for myself ? ? ? Explain to Embassy that your wife has no need while you need ! Get all the family waiting until me in the airport ,the poor third world bastard completes all the papers in order to enter the X country ! !
Have you ever needed a 52 pages fax sent in order to get a fcuink travel Visa ?!

Explain to the kids...why ! ? Come on ,be serious !!

Do you know that in my own country,my Irish kids are foreigners ?? We have to pay all for them,from hospital to education ! Then,in case of...i'm not holding any "ownership" over them as they are Irish and i'm not !

Myself,i took away the mind from Irish Passport,i'm not going to change my driving habit:if stopped in the traffic for speed, i'm going to ask for technical evidence.If not presented,i'm heading to Court.And so on...with all due respect to Garda Officials ! ! !

So,i'm asking again,for my wife:excepting the fees,nothing can force her in getting it later !?

So your worried about how hard you'll have it. The fact that things will be much easier for your wife and kids means nothing to you. That's quite selfish. If you are an EU citizen how are you a "third world bastard" and why would you need a visa when they don't? I think your leaving a lot of info out.

You've referred to your "own country" and you've also said that you will continue to break laws in Ireland so maybe you are not suited to naturalisation. I'm afraid I cannot answer your question about wether your wife can delay her application indefinitely. I would suggest you ring the department of justice or a solicitor and ask them if an accepted application can be delayed.

IH77 · 16-04-2010 3:55pm

rolion wrote: »

Hi,

We are EU Citizens so ,getting an Irish passport is not our priority

Are you sure you are an EU citizen? If you are already an EU citizen I don't see what your problem is?

rolion wrote: »

She's Irish,i'm not !

Is your wife is already Irish?

rolion wrote: »

apply for Visas only for myself ? ? ? Explain to Embassy that your wife has no need while you need ! Get all the family waiting until me in the airport ,the poor third world bastard completes all the papers in order to enter the X country ! !
Have you ever needed a 52 pages fax sent in order to get a fcuink travel Visa ?!

If you are an EU citizen you don't have to apply for visas (no more than an Irish citizen has to for certain countries)

rolion wrote: »

Do you know that in my own country,my Irish kids are foreigners ?? We have to pay all for them,from hospital to education ! Then,in case of...i'm not holding any "ownership" over them as they are Irish and i'm not !

What's your point? Ireland recognises dual citizenship, there is nothing stopping you for obtaining passports for your children from your country of origin.

rolion wrote: »

Myself,i took away the mind from Irish Passport,i'm not going to change my driving habit:if stopped in the traffic for speed, i'm going to ask for technical evidence.If not presented,i'm heading to Court.And so on...with all due respect to Garda Officials ! ! !

To me that comment sums up why you have been refused naturalisation. You make out like you are a victim but it appears to me you have little respect for the laws of this country.

rolion · 16-04-2010 6:59pm

Hi,
Thanks to all for help.

Just got home,flying on M50 first lane as all the drivers driving on 2nd and 3rd lanes...quite strange why the slowest lane is always the fastest on M50...

I think going with my wife (same nationality as me) to my solicitor and ask for advise and then send a registered letter to DoJ asking for further advise.Asking myself why they are not sending a so important letter by registered post ?? After all,950e is not coming cheap,isn't ?I repeat:going with her,as we are together in this matter !

TBH,i asked a question and i'm being examined on my behaviour...i can't fight the group mentality,possible same type of mentality that pushed my Home Country (a person lives in many countries BUT has a single ,only one Home Country;possible the Irish Americans saying same about Ireland while living in US) from being in Central Europe (geographically located) all the way to Eastern Europe (due to same group politics and economically interests/mentality).

I am a EU citizen,but second level not first:you can go and set yourself virtually everywhere you'll like in EU but not people like me or from my country.So,where is the democracy and all the Bs about EU ! ? ? In the bank accounts and open markets and political interests...Pure BS !

I can meet any of you and prove my criminal records.I've installed hundreds of IT systems all over Dublin,more than likely i met one of you somewhere ! I can't show /say all in a public forum,so being accused and labeled already,only after just 2 hours is a prove of my affirmations about the attitude of the people towards third world character (sounds better maybe).

@IH77
i'll take a print of your affirmation and check them with my solicitor.Tbh,even my wife doesn't agree on the situation (this by the way being called sellfish) and i think legal help will be better.

Re breaking law and summing up...is a tough affirmation and i;m deeply upset !!! How many Irish people are losing Citizenship due to breaking law !? None,because they can't !

deh..listen to these two stories,that made me Question all and everything here,whatever relates to me or to my surroundings:

Few years ago,(not sure,i have to check the copies as the original papers are with the DoJ ) got a letter home,being warned to present in the court for not paying the parking fine in some town in Co Cork (dunno the name).It was at some day at midday,lunch time ! It was my wife's car...Me,shocked ! Me trusting the law and the system !!! How in god's name my wife being that day out of work !??Quite our relation was not at the best either !! So...called the Co Cork Office and asked for confirmation,the girl there said yes,that valid,blah,blah...i have to pay it,court....I started entering the stage that i thought my wife is cheating on me...quite strange and never experienced before !!! So,check the dates,call at her work to see (without her knowing) to see of she was off and..you know the rest of the action ! After many calls and nerves,realized that the Official Employed State person that took the car number was mistakenly took the wrong car plate,it was a Seat not my model.Then go in to my office ,take copies of roster and declaration from customers that that day and time i was on their office.Same,for my wife !!! Sent it by fax,registered post and courier to them in order to cancel my next day appearance in Court !! Next day,got a call saying sorry and all should be ok,not registered on the Court and so on,despite being called in the Court !!! BTW...now i realized...that call wasn't on the Application refusal listing !!!!!!!!!! WHY ?????? Is not a traffic offense,not my fault ! Aha,the system works,but not for me...the criminal !

Next one....parked in the front of the shopping centre in Dun Laoghaire,along with other cars,not HGV...I had 10 users in an office with server down,playing games,so i've paid the parking and ran !! Came back,all ok,gone !!! Months later,received registered letter,summons in court not paying 80e for parking in HGV Area.Went bananas....i can't afford 80e ??? Where was it my mind ?Went back next time in DL,guess what ? At the entrance is a HGV . Loading Zone BUT marked only on the road not any indicators !! So,if all spots being taken,you can't see the Loading Zone !!! Went bananas...Mdah,in the court,i explained to judge my Irish Naturalization situation and i apologized for being here but i haven't received ticket in the windscreen and any sort of correspondence from County.Judge asked the prosecutor if there are any evidence of documentation being sent/exchanged between us....they weren't able to find anything !!!! So,the judge dismissed the case and wished me good luck !My fault ??? I don't think so...

Next one...driving (these one is not on their listing either,it looks that they are selective...) on company car,being caught driving over in Finglas,under that bloody bridge coming from N2 (how many Irish people lost passport for being caught in that money maker bleeding hole !??) and said sorry,agreed on the penalty, and Officer said ticket will come on the company address.It looks that the company hasn't paid the ticket and they got a summons on the car plate BUT on my name (the driver) ,... went to Court to explain with letter from Company that is not my fault for not paying the fine but case dismissed due to officer being in the mission.Lucky ??? Dunno honestly...

Also,do you all thinks that i love going to court ??? Do you think that i prefer to pay 500 pounds for Barrister to appear with me in the Court ,on my case,on my behalf !??I'm not so fcuking mad ...

How many of you got letters or summons for traffic offenses without being aware of anything ? Is 5.50E a big amount for the Traffic Tickets Office to pay to send a letter with the fine,by post !??? How will you react to a letter summons for something that you have over looked or forgot or didn't know !!!Hands up,throw the words to me the one that has'nt been through !! NOW or go offline.
I know lots of people in the same situation,believe me !
Few weeks ago,a chap got his car taken from him on the motorway because the insurance Co fcuked up his insurance policy !!!Check the story here,on the board ! Felt sorry for him as i have been there and through TWICE !
If driving on the road,some respectable otherwise Officer says you're driving over limit...you pay the fine OR ask for a Photo !?? Or if you receive a fine by post ...you pay it OR ask for further proves !?? When you lodge an appeal,the Super Intendent says that you have to go to Court and sustain the case there !! So...W T F ??? I've drove all over Europe,is same everywhere...

I will respect the system,i will respect the LAW,that's why i'm still here...not convicted of anything.BUT,with all due respect for the authorities,I WILL QUESTION EVERYTHING !! And that's the way my kids will grow:with respect to all of others BUT QUESTION ALL before...

I'm at your disposition for a decent conversation or maybe for a pint, but i don't want another Irish - non Irish thread !!! Sorry...is not gonna work for me !

My best regards...

MagicSean · 16-04-2010 7:27pm

Why do you keep going on about a photo for speeding? You don't get one if you are stopped by a garda. It's difficult to understand what you are trying to say. You seem to believe that you are being vicitmised unfairly in this country. But I still don't understand your objection to your wife proceeding with her application.

sideshowsue · 16-04-2010 7:42pm

But I still don't understand your objection to your wife proceeding with her application.

That's simple: begrudgery.

Iwasfrozen · 16-04-2010 8:30pm

sideshowsue wrote: »

That's simple: begrudgery.

Ahhh, he's fitting in fast.

walrusgumble · 16-04-2010 9:08pm

rolion wrote: »

Simple...we have a mortgage since 1999...3 kids ,all with Irish passes.
WHAT IF...i'm dying ? What is she's going !?
What if...we divorce ? She's Irish,i'm not ! Can i be kicked off so f easy...who has rights ? Me a f foreigner OR she,an Irish citizen ! ? ? ? Can a non-Irish person ask this Q ,with his feelings and/or experience ??? I know lots of friends which wifes dropped them for Irish man,kicking their ass until they got on the streets,at zero ...

Traveling...typical Q:sorry,why 4 Irish pass and one not ? apply for Visas only for myself ? ? ? Explain to Embassy that your wife has no need while you need ! Get all the family waiting until me in the airport ,the poor third world bastard completes all the papers in order to enter the X country ! !
Have you ever needed a 52 pages fax sent in order to get a fcuink travel Visa ?!

Explain to the kids...why ! ? Come on ,be serious !!

Do you know that in my own country,my Irish kids are foreigners ?? We have to pay all for them,from hospital to education ! Then,in case of...i'm not holding any "ownership" over them as they are Irish and i'm not !

Myself,i took away the mind from Irish Passport,i'm not going to change my driving habit:if stopped in the traffic for speed, i'm going to ask for technical evidence.If not presented,i'm heading to Court.And so on...with all due respect to Garda Officials ! ! !

So,i'm asking again,for my wife:excepting the fees,nothing can force her in getting it later !?

What countries are ye from? Assuming your country alows dual citizenship, it is highely likely that the children WILL be entitled to citizenship of yer country on the basis of their parents been same automatically. THey won't be treated as foreigners then, unless of course they are from somewhere like China who don't allow dual citizenship

Do you hold EU citizenship?

If so

As YOU are an EU citizen, you have very very very strong rights under Directive 2004/38 EC and the treaty itself with regard to your permission to reside in the State on your own grounds. You will have the same family laws rights as an Irish male in similar position as you should anything go wrong. As you are an EU citizen, what visas will you have to make in order to travel anywhere else in europe?

If you are not an EU citizen, your wife will be (Irish and whatever other country citizenship of eu state she holds) If so, again, you will have very very strong EU rights to live here (even if family life goes wrong and you separate) As for travel, well we are not in Schegen, but if travelling with wife (who is Irish and other eu) you won't have too many problems getting a visa to travel elsewhere. Your nationality in a family law court will not be considered, you will be treated fairly anything less is possibly discrimination, a breach of Article 13 and 14 of ECHR

You should have know clearly, that the Minister has discretion! You are even asked about whether or not you have been in court, whether criminal or civil. Your attitude towards your driving behaviour is disgraceful, in any country - do you realise the HUGE problem this country has with road traffic related deaths. You would want to be careful as criminal records etc may have the Minister at least reconsider whether or not you should be allowed to stay in the country and issue you with a section 3 letter! (now of course, considering your length of time here, your wife's nationality and children etc you would have a very good case to defeat deportation)

Get a proper copy of your criminal record from the vetting office and go to a solicitor/ by the sounds of it, you might have difficulties in getting this successfully reviewed by the courts, especially with the attitude of the judges towards these type of cases

Your wife must proceed without haste and take up her citizenship. Unless there is a good reason for delay, the Minister will take this as a person not been too bothered about taking it up, or left the country - the minister can do this, he has made it clear that me may do this. you will have HUGE difficulties in getting a judge to make the minister reconsider unless she has an excellent excuse for not paying and taking up the passport offer without delay. FOr god sake if she wants the passport, she should not be so stupid after all these years, take it.

If you think you are in a bad situation, then again how Mohammed Al Fayed of Harrods/Fulham FC fame feels, who has failed for years to get British Citizenship

Best of luck. Get the criminal record sorted out. If you got no convictions and no fines, you can't really be treated as being one of bad character as the law shows you are innocent till proven guilty.

walrusgumble · 16-04-2010 9:34pm

rolion wrote: »

Hi,
Thanks to all for help.

Just got home,flying on M50 first lane as all the drivers driving on 2nd and 3rd lanes...quite strange why the slowest lane is always the fastest on M50...

I think going with my wife (same nationality as me) to my solicitor and ask for advise and then send a registered letter to DoJ asking for further advise.Asking myself why they are not sending a so important letter by registered post ?? After all,950e is not coming cheap,isn't ?I repeat:going with her,as we are together in this matter !

TBH,i asked a question and i'm being examined on my behaviour...i can't fight the group mentality,possible same type of mentality that pushed my Home Country (a person lives in many countries BUT has a single ,only one Home Country;possible the Irish Americans saying same about Ireland while living in US) from being in Central Europe (geographically located) all the way to Eastern Europe (due to same group politics and economically interests/mentality).

I am a EU citizen,but second level not first:you can go and set yourself virtually everywhere you'll like in EU but not people like me or from my country.So,where is the democracy and all the Bs about EU ! ? ? In the bank accounts and open markets and political interests...Pure BS !

I can meet any of you and prove my criminal records.I've installed hundreds of IT systems all over Dublin,more than likely i met one of you somewhere ! I can't show /say all in a public forum,so being accused and labeled already,only after just 2 hours is a prove of my affirmations about the attitude of the people towards third world character (sounds better maybe).

@IH77
i'll take a print of your affirmation and check them with my solicitor.Tbh,even my wife doesn't agree on the situation (this by the way being called sellfish) and i think legal help will be better.

Re breaking law and summing up...is a tough affirmation and i;m deeply upset !!! How many Irish people are losing Citizenship due to breaking law !? None,because they can't !

deh..listen to these two stories,that made me Question all and everything here,whatever relates to me or to my surroundings:

Few years ago,(not sure,i have to check the copies as the original papers are with the DoJ ) got a letter home,being warned to present in the court for not paying the parking fine in some town in Co Cork (dunno the name).It was at some day at midday,lunch time ! It was my wife's car...Me,shocked ! Me trusting the law and the system !!! How in god's name my wife being that day out of work !??Quite our relation was not at the best either !! So...called the Co Cork Office and asked for confirmation,the girl there said yes,that valid,blah,blah...i have to pay it,court....I started entering the stage that i thought my wife is cheating on me...quite strange and never experienced before !!! So,check the dates,call at her work to see (without her knowing) to see of she was off and..you know the rest of the action ! After many calls and nerves,realized that the Official Employed State person that took the car number was mistakenly took the wrong car plate,it was a Seat not my model.Then go in to my office ,take copies of roster and declaration from customers that that day and time i was on their office.Same,for my wife !!! Sent it by fax,registered post and courier to them in order to cancel my next day appearance in Court !! Next day,got a call saying sorry and all should be ok,not registered on the Court and so on,despite being called in the Court !!! BTW...now i realized...that call wasn't on the Application refusal listing !!!!!!!!!! WHY ?????? Is not a traffic offense,not my fault ! Aha,the system works,but not for me...the criminal !

Next one....parked in the front of the shopping centre in Dun Laoghaire,along with other cars,not HGV...I had 10 users in an office with server down,playing games,so i've paid the parking and ran !! Came back,all ok,gone !!! Months later,received registered letter,summons in court not paying 80e for parking in HGV Area.Went bananas....i can't afford 80e ??? Where was it my mind ?Went back next time in DL,guess what ? At the entrance is a HGV . Loading Zone BUT marked only on the road not any indicators !! So,if all spots being taken,you can't see the Loading Zone !!! Went bananas...Mdah,in the court,i explained to judge my Irish Naturalization situation and i apologized for being here but i haven't received ticket in the windscreen and any sort of correspondence from County.Judge asked the prosecutor if there are any evidence of documentation being sent/exchanged between us....they weren't able to find anything !!!! So,the judge dismissed the case and wished me good luck !My fault ??? I don't think so...

Next one...driving (these one is not on their listing either,it looks that they are selective...) on company car,being caught driving over in Finglas,under that bloody bridge coming from N2 (how many Irish people lost passport for being caught in that money maker bleeding hole !??) and said sorry,agreed on the penalty, and Officer said ticket will come on the company address.It looks that the company hasn't paid the ticket and they got a summons on the car plate BUT on my name (the driver) ,... went to Court to explain with letter from Company that is not my fault for not paying the fine but case dismissed due to officer being in the mission.Lucky ??? Dunno honestly...

Also,do you all thinks that i love going to court ??? Do you think that i prefer to pay 500 pounds for Barrister to appear with me in the Court ,on my case,on my behalf !??I'm not so fcuking mad ...

How many of you got letters or summons for traffic offenses without being aware of anything ? Is 5.50E a big amount for the Traffic Tickets Office to pay to send a letter with the fine,by post !??? How will you react to a letter summons for something that you have over looked or forgot or didn't know !!!Hands up,throw the words to me the one that has'nt been through !! NOW or go offline.
I know lots of people in the same situation,believe me !
Few weeks ago,a chap got his car taken from him on the motorway because the insurance Co fcuked up his insurance policy !!!Check the story here,on the board ! Felt sorry for him as i have been there and through TWICE !
If driving on the road,some respectable otherwise Officer says you're driving over limit...you pay the fine OR ask for a Photo !?? Or if you receive a fine by post ...you pay it OR ask for further proves !?? When you lodge an appeal,the Super Intendent says that you have to go to Court and sustain the case there !! So...W T F ??? I've drove all over Europe,is same everywhere...

I will respect the system,i will respect the LAW,that's why i'm still here...not convicted of anything.BUT,with all due respect for the authorities,I WILL QUESTION EVERYTHING !! And that's the way my kids will grow:with respect to all of others BUT QUESTION ALL before...

I'm at your disposition for a decent conversation or maybe for a pint, but i don't want another Irish - non Irish thread !!! Sorry...is not gonna work for me !

My best regards...

Sir you sought for advice / suggestions. People have been very helpful. You need to be told the facts/position in an accurate and honest manner and not what you would like to hear. THe people who gave advise are spot on, unfortunately for you, but all is not lost yet, speak to a solicitor and please, seriously, stay the hell out of trouble! There is no mentality out against you here, if there is in your mind,it is simply a response to your rather strange attitude towards the road (assuming now you are joking)

If this was a once off, then the Minister would have difficulties. But it seemed consistent. Still get advice.

As for your EU citizenship, are you by any chance referring to Bulgaria and Romania who still normally have to get work permits?(the other lads of the eastern block have, well on paper, the same rights as Irish and other EU states - lets remember too, very few EU countries allowed these people full eu rights straight away upon entering the EU - and rightly so may I add) Its HIGHELY HIGHELY likely you are not required one and have stamp 4, so you can't be treated any different to any other person in this state never mind other EU nationals living here. Jesus man, I feel sorry for you to consider yourself as "second tier". Chin up! Your third paragraph is hugely puzzling

I assume that you are taking the p*ss now, but there would not be too many people who would have much time for anyone, REGARDLESS OF NATIONALITY, who seem to have a blatant disregard for the roads. Now look, yes, you were lucky they were never serious, and no doubt they were not intentional but, really, you bring where your from into it (ok, it effects citizenship, but name another country that would accept it?) I am sure people of your country would have some issues of you describing your country as a third world, have you no god damn pride and self belief?

IH77 · 17-04-2010 9:27am

walrusgumble wrote: »

I assume that you are taking the p*ss now, but there would not be too many people who would have much time for anyone, REGARDLESS OF NATIONALITY, who seem to have a blatant disregard for the roads.

This is why you need a solicitor and fast. A solicitor is the only person that will help you now. They will gladly take your money no matter what your record or attitude.

It is clear to me that you have not given all the facts about your case, just the bits you want. Your vagueness also leads people like me to make certain assumptions about your background. For example, I don't think you hold any European citizenship, but you think you are "entitled" to be treated as a European because of your "contribution" to Irish/European society. This country owes you nothing my friend, if I was making an assumption I would say it's the other way around. Another assumption I will make is that both you and your family have been allowed to stay here based on your children being born here. With all due respect, nobody is making you stay here.

If you want to stay in Ireland with your family then fine, but you seemed to have dreamed up that the Irish Govt are conspiring against you and your family. Cop on to yourself.

As I said above, you need advice from a solicitor, maybe they will have better luck helping you and actually getting some facts.