Episode Inconsistency/Error

Myrddin

Nearing the end now of my DS9 run. I have to say without a doubt, its easily the best show of the lot of them. Absoloutley enthralling....

Anyway, finished the episode "Valiant" the other night. When Nog is promoted to chief engineer with the rank of Lieutenant Commander, I noticed his rank pips are wrong. He is only wearing Lieutentant (junior Grade (One Gold/One Black) pips...

Also there is a cadet who holds the rank of Chief. To the best of my knowledge, the rank of Chief can only be held by non commissioned personnel, so surely a Cadet is going through the academy will take an officers rank?

Any thoughts?

Johnny Storm

May I refer you to .... ?

http://www.amazon.com/Nitpickers-Guide-Deep-Space-Trekkers/dp/0440507626

Stabshauptmann

I had always just thought Chief was a nick name or in reference to the position Chief of Operations; I never copped O'Brien was an NCO. Funny, how the chief engineer could be an NCO!

Myrddin

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

I had always just thought Chief was a nick name or in reference to the position Chief of Operations; I never copped O'Brien was an NCO. Funny, how the chief engineer could be an NCO!

Yeah its a naval nco rank afaik. There prob isnt that many chief engineers that are nco's...I think O'Brien just took a gamble with the DS9 posting and his reputation grew from there, Although he was also the tactical officer on the Rutledge...not bad for an nco.

Cookie_Monster

and every other helmsman shown was at least an ensign (or cadet) right?

I wonder why he never got a field commission to lieutenant or LComm

Myrddin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and every other helmsman shown was at least an ensign (or cadet) right?

I wonder why he never got a field commission to lieutenant or LComm

He never attended/graduated from the Academy afaik...so a chief is technically as high a rank he can achieve being a non comm. Kira's granted field commision of Commander was under extreme circumstances I suppose, its prob unheard of outside that example.

chopperbyrne

EnterNow wrote: »

He never attended/graduated from the Academy afaik...so a chief is technically as high a rank he can achieve being a non comm. Kira's granted field commision of Commander was under extreme circumstances I suppose, its prob unheard of outside that example.

A lot of the Maquis crew on Voyager were given proper ranks too.

Stabshauptmann

chopperbyrne wrote: »

A lot of the Maquis crew on Voyager were given proper ranks too.

Well thats completely different. They were given equivalent ranks. They never could have gotten the cooopertation thing going if all the starfleet guys were superior to maquis.


Bank to NCOs though, I really think the whole non-academy thing was neglected in ST. I mean, from TNG, DS9 and VGR, how often did we see a crew man?

On the issue of field commission; a battlefield commission in Star Fleet must be extremely rare. Think about it, Star Fleet wouldnt exacly be locked in trench warfare out of communications range for months on end! O'Brien has been decorated and honoured with medals. Promoting him to Lt mighted even carry the same honour as a medal in the 24th century in which the Federation is set.

CSaber

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

I had always just thought Chief was a nick name or in reference to the position Chief of Operations; I never copped O'Brien was an NCO. Funny, how the chief engineer could be an NCO!

In all fairness O'Brien went through many ranks on the Enterprise and it only settled down on DS9. At various times on TNG he had a one gold pip (ensign), two gold pips (lieutenant) and, I think, a black pip (NCO?). Memory Alpha has a lot on his rank.

Also sometimes there are just errors on the show. The famous one in terms of rank is Data in 'All Good Things' who had the pips for lieutenant jg in the 'past' segment even though he was a Lieutenant-Commander.

Also, as I'm typing this I just remembered, Tuvok in Voyager started the series as LC but after a few episodes was mysteriously a Lieutenant until during the series run Janeway promoted him to LC.

Magic Eight Ball

Poor ensign Kim. 7 seasons and didn't even make it to lieutenant (junior grade) :pac:

Please nobody point out he was a captian in 'endgame' (doesn't count)

Myrddin

Magic Eight Ball wrote: »

Poor ensign Kim. 7 seasons and didn't even make it to lieutenant (junior grade) :pac:

Please nobody point out he was a captian in 'endgame' (doesn't count)

Yeah he got a raw deal there. But I suppose an 80/90 year journey they could hardly afford to have a crew of commanders

cyrusdvirus

EnterNow wrote: »

Yeah he got a raw deal there. But I suppose an 80/90 year journey they could hardly afford to have a crew of commanders

I'd say they all got bumped after they got home.

If you remember Nemesis <shudder> Janeway had been promoted to Admiral, and poor old Jean-Luc was still 'only' a Captain..

helimachoptor

CSaber wrote: »

In all fairness O'Brien went through many ranks on the Enterprise and it only settled down on DS9. At various times on TNG he had a one gold pip (ensign), two gold pips (lieutenant) and, I think, a black pip (NCO?). Memory Alpha has a lot on his rank.

Also sometimes there are just errors on the show. The famous one in terms of rank is Data in 'All Good Things' who had the pips for lieutenant jg in the 'past' segment even though he was a Lieutenant-Commander.

Also, as I'm typing this I just remembered, Tuvok in Voyager started the series as LC but after a few episodes was mysteriously a Lieutenant until during the series run Janeway promoted him to LC.

Yeah O'Brien, was a Crew man, LT, LT JG in enterprise, not sure why they didnt just leave him as a junior officer.

gatecrash wrote: »

I'd say they all got bumped after they got home.

If you remember Nemesis <shudder> Janeway had been promoted to Admiral, and poor old Jean-Luc was still 'only' a Captain..

This was down to choice I'd say, Picard had turned down a few promotions and from various Army/Navy related things most Captains do whatever it takes to stay in control of a ship as most Admiral jobs are pen pusher type jobs and not Fleet Commander type jobs.

Myrddin

helimachoptor wrote: »

This was down to choice I'd say, Picard had turned down a few promotions and from various Army/Navy related things most Captains do whatever it takes to stay in control of a ship as most Admiral jobs are pen pusher type jobs and not Fleet Commander type jobs.

Id agree with this, and didnt another lad called Jim say to him "dont let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship..."

I would imagine the entire crew of voyager jumped at least 1 or 2 ranks after getting home, and the maquis crew (novels aside) were perhaps even given commisions if they wished.

I was watching "Penumbra" last night, and could have sworn while Ezri was in the runabout looking for worf she had full lieutenant pips on, but sometimes those black pips catch the light weird and appear gold. Laziness deemed that it just wasnt worth rewinding for another look...

Cookie_Monster

Check this out, some coversation on the frankly outragous errors in voyager

IvySlayer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Check this out, some coversation on the frankly outragous errors in voyager

The whole of Voyager was an error. Especially Captain Painway.

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

Yeah he got a raw deal there. But I suppose an 80/90 year journey they could hardly afford to have a crew of commanders

Remember that TOS movies has Kirk,Spock and Scotty as captains, on the one ship

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

Remember that TOS movies has Kirk,Spock and Scotty as captains, on the one ship

I dont think Scotty was a Captain during the movies, wasnt he a Commander?

STTMP - Kirk was an admiral, Spock was reinstated as a commander (I think)
STTWOK - Kirk was an admiral, Spock was Captain
STTSFS - Kirk was an Admiral, Spock was marked as deceased.
STTVH - Informal roles for the crew, basic command structure remained.
STTFF - Kirk demoted to Captain, Spock also Captain
STTUC - Kirk recalled for on final mission, Spock would be the normal Captain.

Star Trek 5 was the only film where the ship had two permanent Captains serving, ST6 was a one off mission.

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

I dont think Scotty was a Captain during the movies, wasnt he a Commander?

STTMP - Kirk was an admiral, Spock was reinstated as a commander (I think)
STTWOK - Kirk was an admiral, Spock was Captain
STTSFS - Kirk was an Admiral, Spock was marked as deceased.
STTVH - Informal roles for the crew, basic command structure remained.
STTFF - Kirk demoted to Captain, Spock also Captain
STTUC - Kirk recalled for on final mission, Spock would be the normal Captain.

Star Trek 5 was the only film where the ship had two permanent Captains serving, ST6 was a one off mission.

Memoery alpha on scotty

Later career
Scott in 2273
Scott in 2286In 2270, Commander Scott played an instrumental role in the massive refit of the USS Enterprise while serving under Captain Will Decker. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)

In 2285, Scott was promoted and reassigned to the USS Excelsior as Captain of engineering during the ship's early test runs. Scott detested his assignment aboard the Excelsior, citing the ship as little more than a "bucket of bolts", and didn't particularly care for Captain Styles either. He later sabotaged the Excelsior, removing components from her transwarp computer drive to prevent it from pursuing the Enterprise when the Enterprise was stolen for an unauthorized mission to the Genesis planet. (Star Trek III: The Search for Spock)

Scott's uniform department color patch was usually yellow (signifying operations division), although in some scenes he wore the white shirt of the command division, though in the later movies, he relinquished his "Second Officer" status, which was fine with him, as he always preferred being in the Engine Room. Besides Scott, only one other captain, the sciences division's Krasnovsky, has ever been portrayed as wearing captain rank insignia on a uniform not of the command division.
In 2286, Scott traveled back in time to 1986 along with the rest of the Enterprise crew to find a pair of humpback whales. In order to construct a water tank for them, he visited the Plexicorp facility as "Professor Scott" from Edinburgh. Making a deal with plant manager Nichols he gave him the formula of transparent aluminum in exchange for a sheet of plexiglass. When Dr. McCoy objected against "changing the future," Scott pointed out "How do we know he didn't invent the thing?". After returning home he was reassigned as chief engineer of the newly commissioned USS Enterprise-A. (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home) He then spent nearly a year refitting the ship for service. (Star Trek V: The Final Frontier)

Scott played a role in exposing the Khitomer conspiracy in 2293. Upon beaming down to the surface of Khitomer, he shot Colonel West, who was about to assassinate the Federation president, out of a window and several stories to his death. (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country)

At some point in his career, Scott was the first to postulate the theory of transwarp beaming. (Star Trek)

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

In 2285, Scott was promoted and reassigned to the USS Excelsior as Captain of engineering

Is this a real naval possibility? Id argue that being Captain of Engineering doesnt mean the rank is Captain...

Was he ever referred to as Captain before "Relics" in TNG? I dont recall it ever being said.

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

Is this a real naval possibility? Id argue that being Captain of Engineering doesnt mean the rank is Captain...

Was he ever referred to as Captain before "Relics" in TNG? I dont recall it ever being said.

You can easily be ranked captain and not be in command.
admirals can have their own ships with a captain as the XO


Also he wore the trappings of a Captain and I believe Kirk referred to him as Captain Scott.

cyrusdvirus

EnterNow wrote: »

Is this a real naval possibility? Id argue that being Captain of Engineering doesnt mean the rank is Captain...

Was he ever referred to as Captain before "Relics" in TNG? I dont recall it ever being said.

In the old soviet navy it depended on the career path. As with Scotty, the chief engineer on a ship could well be a captain, even outrank the commanding officer of the ship, but the C.O. is the C.O.

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

You can easily be ranked captain and not be in command..

Im aware of that, I was disputing his rank was Captain in the first place though. Seems wikipedia reckons he was made a Captain also, for the refit of Excelsior. Seems its still possible to learn about Trek after all these years

It was a crazy move on behalf of the writers...three captains on one ship? I just dont ever recall him bering referred to as Captain either, outside of TNG.

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

Im aware of that, I was disputing his rank was Captain in the first place though. Seems wikipedia reckons he was made a Captain also, for the refit of Excelsior. Seems its still possible to learn about Trek after all these years

It was a crazy move on behalf of the writers...three captains on one ship? I just dont ever recall him bering referred to as Captain either, outside of TNG.

what is worse is that I knew it!!

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

what is worse is that I knew it!!

I get alarmed the odd time too about what I know in Star Trek :D