Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

TheSituation

Hello everyone,
can anybody tell me were the highest grading bjj instructor teaches the martial art in Dublin?
thanks.

Jason McCabe

There is one of Ralph Gracie's second Dan's at Kokoro in dublin

The next highest I'm aware of is John Kavanaugh at SBG. He is first Dan.

EnjoyChoke

SBG Longmile Rd.
http://www.sbgireland.com/

cletus

beaten to it

mmaireland.com

Tony Souza, 2. Black Under Ralph Gracie. Long time competitor and coach on Team Ralph Gracie: CLICK HERE. As far as I'm aware, Tony is currently the highest ranked/most experienced coach available in Ireland.

Kokoro Gym, Tuesday & Wednesday at 18:00 (Open to non-members).

TheSituation

Thanks very much everyone.

Pride Fighter

John Kavanagh is Irelands only BJJ black belt. The other guy is only here for another few months or so I've heard.

Sid_Justice

Nevertheless, he is here, teaching bjj in an club in dublin and is according to the above link a 2nd degree under ralph gracie.

pablohoney87

What Dan grade does one have to be to award 2nd?
Is Ralph still 3rd?

da-bres

is that the american dude that shane courtney beat at sapo?

John kavanagh teaches every day at sbg

pablohoney87

I think it is.
Is he not brazillian?

EnjoyChoke

pablohoney87 wrote: »

What Dan grade does one have to be to award 2nd?
Is Ralph still 3rd?

You get a degree on your black belt every 3 years on the premise that you are either a fully active competitor or coach during that time period.
What seperates one black belt from another isn't degrees, stripes or "Dans" its Rolling and coaching ability.

pablohoney87

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

You get a degree on your black belt every 3 years on the premise that you are either a fully active competitor or coach during that time period.
What seperates one black belt from another isn't degrees, stripes or "Dans" its Rolling and coaching ability.

But guys like BJ Penn Kenny Florian and the Nog brothers and even marcello garcia would still only be considered a 1st dan?

EnjoyChoke

pablohoney87 wrote: »

But guys like BJ Penn Kenny Florian and the Nog brothers would still only be considered a 1st dan?

We're not in Japan so they wouldn't be any "Dan" :pac:
No one really gives much credence, in terms of abilty, to either stripes or degrees on belts in BJJ. They are given out sporadicaly and are not a real measure of performance in the same sense that belts are. BJ and the Nogs would certainly qualify for high degrees but I can't imagine that either having or not having them would keep them awake at night.

pablohoney87

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

but I can't imagine that either having or not having them would keep them awake at night.

Yeah me neither. Was just wondering how they were awarded.

EnjoyChoke

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Yeah me neither. Was just wondering how they were awarded.

http://www.ibjjf.org/graduation.htm

The Jist is once your competing or coaching you can get a degree every 3 years on your black belt. Obviously you have to go looking for it or be awarded it. Since most BJJ'ers aren't into this side of thing they don't.
Incidently John Kavanagh got his black belt in 2007 so he would be eligible for a 2nd degree if he wanted it. Like Penn and the Nogs though I can't imagine it bothers him.

MaeveD

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

would be eligible for a 2nd degree if he wanted it

Isn't it 1st degree next for JK?

Its different than other martial arts... it goes blackbelt, then blackbelt 1st degree, blackbelt 2nd degree etc just like the other BJJ belts and stripes....

EnjoyChoke

MaeveD wrote: »

Isn't it 1st degree next for JK?

Its different than other martial arts... it goes blackbelt, then blackbelt 1st degree, blackbelt 2nd degree etc just like the other BJJ belts and stripes....

I'm just holding out for my Gold sash!

Barry.Oglesby

If the question is "grading" instructor, then it's probably John Kavanagh. If the question is who is highest "ranked" then it's the lad doing it in Kokoro.

If I had a choice I wouldn't train with either of them because I might feel emotionally compelled to be involved in a retarded argument about who is "higher ranked" which is fairly meaningless.

OP go train with them both, enjoy, and wherever you feel your face fits the best, go there. I'm a blue belt and people still find it perfectly acceptable, good even, to train with me despite my lowly position in the "ranking" world. Same with the other blues, purples and browns coaching around the country. Grades are helpful to a point but the gym for you is the gym where you're most likely to enjoy your training and return to time after time. So call both gyms and have a look at both gyms and make your decision based on that.

wayno

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

If the question is "grading" instructor, then it's probably John Kavanagh. If the question is who is highest "ranked" then it's the lad doing it in Kokoro.

If I had a choice I wouldn't train with either of them because I might feel emotionally compelled to be involved in a retarded argument about who is "higher ranked" which is fairly meaningless.

OP go train with them both, enjoy, and wherever you feel your face fits the best, go there. I'm a blue belt and people still find it perfectly acceptable, good even, to train with me despite my lowly position in the "ranking" world. Same with the other blues, purples and browns coaching around the country. Grades are helpful to a point but the gym for you is the gym where you're most likely to enjoy your training and return to time after time. So call both gyms and have a look at both gyms and make your decision based on that.

Well said barry :-0

http://www.waynefaganbjj.com/

EnjoyChoke

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

If the question is "grading" instructor, then it's probably John Kavanagh. If the question is who is highest "ranked" then it's the lad doing it in Kokoro.

If I had a choice I wouldn't train with either of them because I might feel emotionally compelled to be involved in a retarded argument about who is "higher ranked" which is fairly meaningless.

OP go train with them both, enjoy, and wherever you feel your face fits the best, go there. I'm a blue belt and people still find it perfectly acceptable, good even, to train with me despite my lowly position in the "ranking" world. Same with the other blues, purples and browns coaching around the country. Grades are helpful to a point but the gym for you is the gym where you're most likely to enjoy your training and return to time after time. So call both gyms and have a look at both gyms and make your decision based on that.

I wasn't arguing about who was higher "ranked" I was making a point about the futility of using the "ranking" structure after black belt to measure rolling or coaching ability.

I agree you have to enjoy the training (otherwise what the hell is the point?) but as with competitors all coaches are not equal. The main considerations should their BJJ acumen and their ability to teach it. The number one measure for this, in the sport, is the belt.

Barry.Oglesby

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

I wasn't arguing about who was higher "ranked" I was making a point about the futility of using the "ranking" structure after black belt to measure rolling or coaching ability.

I understand that. My point wasn't directed at you it was a more general point about the people on this thread seeing who could piss higher.

but as with competitors all coaches are not equal. The main considerations should their BJJ acumen and their ability to teach it. The number one measure for this, in the sport, is the belt.

No it's not, it's the people they produce. I take your point that belts are a good measure of ability, but certainly not of coaching ability. That's a whole different kettle of fish. Some people just can't teach. There's a guy in England who produced a black belt when he was a purple belt.

EnjoyChoke

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

No it's not, it's the people they produce. I take your point that belts are a good measure of ability, but certainly not of coaching ability. That's a whole different kettle of fish. Some people just can't teach. There's a guy in England who produced a black belt when he was a purple belt.

"The main consideration should their BJJ acumen and their ability to teach it."

We're saying similar things. I do however believe that your ability to coach BJJ is limited by your technical ability in the sport. To put it another way, a good coach will become a better coach (and be able to bring guys on to a higher level) as he reaches higher levels himself.
A great "coach" who's a white belt will not be as good as a great "coach" who is a black belt.
To a beginner it might not matter that their coach is a blue or purple belt. To a higher grade it will matter.
The example you mentioned is as rare as hen's teeth

mmaireland.com

Not sure who's bickering over what or why, but hey, this IS boards...

Back to the OP's question; Tony is available for training mate. If you fancy giving it a shot you'd be welcome.

Barry.Oglesby

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

"The main consideration should their BJJ acumen and their ability to teach it."

We're saying similar things. I do however believe that your ability to coach BJJ is limited by your technical ability in the sport. To put it another way, a good coach will become a better coach (and be able to bring guys on to a higher level) as he reaches higher levels himself.
A great "coach" who's a white belt will not be as good as a great "coach" who is a black belt.
To a beginner it might not matter that their coach is a blue or purple belt. To a higher grade it will matter.
The example you mentioned is as rare as hen's teeth

I actually agree with you. My original point was that you can have one without the other. But I know what you're saying and of course you're right- the bigger the well of experience you can draw on, the better. But I think we both also recognise that you can have that well and no coaching acumen to go with it.

We're basically saying the same thing, but my opinion is that people get too hung up on belts and grades. Quick example- there's a guy in my gym, a novice, who trains with another (higher ranked) BJJ coach as well. He has never once been to one of my technique classes, and goes out of his way to tell others that he doesn't come because he trains with "X". Now this guy is a novice. He makes the same mistakes all novices make and yet still feels that the 2 inches around my waist exclude me from being able to teach him anything.

It's not your argument I'm ragging against, as I said I think you're right, I just don't like the whole idea of grades in general (the BJJ system is the best of a bad bunch) and I would hate to see BJJ go down the same old road of taekwondo, karate and so on.

_oveless

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Quick example- there's a guy in my gym, a novice, who trains with another (higher ranked) BJJ coach as well. He has never once been to one of my technique classes, and goes out of his way to tell others that he doesn't come because he trains with "X". Now this guy is a novice. He makes the same mistakes all novices make and yet still feels that the 2 inches around my waist exclude me from being able to teach him anything.

Sorry to get off topic, but why do you have him in your gym? Don't you find that kind of undermining behavior disruptive?

Barry.Oglesby

_oveless wrote: »

Sorry to get off topic, but why do you have him in your gym? Don't you find that kind of undermining behavior disruptive?

Just to clarify, we're not just a BJJ gym we're open to general membership and have a load of members (probably 60%) who don't do any form of martial arts. However the classes are open to all of those people. If my gym was like my old one, just mats and classes, then he wouldn't be near it anymore.

_oveless

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Just to clarify, we're not just a BJJ gym we're open to general membership and have a load of members (probably 60%) who don't do any form of martial arts. However the classes are open to all of those people. If my gym was like my old one, just mats and classes, then he wouldn't be near it anymore.

Oh right I see, thanks for the clarification.

Barry.Oglesby

_oveless wrote: »

Oh right I see, thanks for the clarification.

No prob!

Wonky Knees

Interesting contrast between the arts. I remember my Kung Fu instructor tell me that belts were only good for holding ones trousers up! I can see the benefit of having belts as a form of identification and as a motivational goal for students. In certain Kung Fu styles you didn't need the belt since you were distinguished by the 'form' your were currently at.

At the same time if it is a question that someone wishes to pursue a career as a BJJ coach, then I can see the benefit of the dans.

As for the OP. I'd take the advice of another poster and try a class in each club.

My own experience: I know Tony and he is a great coach.