hk416 ver aug a3?

c-90

just something thats being bothering me.

you see in this months an cosanteor the ARW using hk416 along with the aug a3, what kinda benifits does the hk416 have over the aug a3 and what is its role?

Manic Moran

Generally speaking they have more real estate to hang cool attachments off. They're probably also a little lighter. Plus, they get to advertise how cool they are because they get to use something different...

NTM

punchdrunk

I'd imagine they get alot of leeway when it comes to personal weapons
and it's more than likely a person preference thing
for some the bull-pup though heavier might be more familiar from their PDF days so they tend to stick with it,others might prefer the lighter weight of the HK

I think you can take it from the pics that both get the "stamp of approval"

on a side note do they still have the HK 33?

Morpheus

The steyr aug bullpup design by has sometimes been percieved to be slightly less accurate due to the heavier trigger pull required... ive never had the opportunity to test this out though and wonder if anyone here has had this chance and if so what their thoughts are on this?

Also Just thought id throw this in, we award Marksman badges from time to time... so personally I think its not a stones throw away that we should have a DMR (Designated Marksman) in each section with the AUG A3 HBAR DMR rifle.

Tried to find a few pics of it buts basically the longbarrelled HBAR T version of the A3 with a better scope.

heres 2 pics of an A2 (i think) and an A3 DMR (you'll have to forgive me for im sure at least the A2 one is an airsoft pic)

A2 (or A1??) HBAR DMR


A3 HBAR DMR

punchdrunk

I'd be a strongly in favour of a DMR but I think as we already have
HK417 7.62's in service with the rangers they would be a better choice

Morpheus

True especially with 7.62 at ranges of over 600m,

However my feeling is that maybe 1000 aug A3 HBAR T's 5.56 DMR's would be much easier (realistic and cheaper in current economic crisis) to implement.

probably wont happen, but the as far as i recall, rangers lead the way (scuse the pun) when it comes to standard army unit armament selection. Would love to get a chance to use the HK though.

Manic Moran

The steyr aug bullpup design by has sometimes been percieved to be slightly less accurate due to the heavier trigger pull required... ive never had the opportunity to test this out though and wonder if anyone here has had this chance and if so what their thoughts are on this?

There's no two ways that the trigger on a factory AUG is heavier than on an M4. For precision work, it does have an effect. However, there are a number of simple modifications which can be made to reduce trigger pull down to a very low weight. Not sure what the effect on reliabilty is, I need to hunt around a bit.

The Trigger Tamer
http://www.triggertamer.com/

And the cottage industry, but supposedly better, Trigger-Lite.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=157404984
I'm likely to buy one of the latter soon.

You can also shave a pound or two off the pressure by polishing the trigger pack. There are quite a few threads on firearms sites about ways to reduce the weight of trigger pull on the AUG.

NTM

AbusesToilets

A reason that they may be using the 416 over the A3 is that it has better ergonomics, certainly for things like CQB. Easier to change mags etc

Morpheus

Easier to change mags etc

LOL

That reminds me and slightly off topic, but I remember someone (a private) recently tried to incorrectly demonstrate the loading and unloading of the AUG using the RIGHT hand to load/unload the mag

You can also shave a pound or two off the pressure by polishing the trigger pack. There are quite a few threads on firearms sites about ways to reduce the weight of trigger pull on the AUG.

Now THATS interesting, Ive never heard of this as a technique to reduce the effect...
*morpheus disappears to google polishing trigger packs*

iceage

QSM's all over the place will be chuffed to hear that! I wonder would an Armourer take one on as a project.

coach23

arent the 416 famed for being harder wearing than most and can take alot of dirt dust water grit and mud before a stoppage. Perhaps with the greater abuse they'll get from the rangers will be better taken by the 416 saying that as a poster correctly said a lot would be personal choice.

Manic Moran

Now THATS interesting, Ive never heard of this as a technique to reduce the effect...
*morpheus disappears to google polishing trigger packs*

See here:

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=43&t=287866

The trigger pull on my AXR was 10lbs 5oz before any kind of modifications. As I was waiting for the Trigger Lite (it was only 2 weeks) I was reading what a difference a polish and lubing the hell out of the hammer pack can make. All that a polish entails is getting rid of any kind of molding marks and anything else that is raised like numbers, time stamps, and etc. So I got out some 800, 1500, and 2000 grit sandpaper and got to sanding. This was by no means a fast process but to me this is not something you want to rush. This did quite a bit to help the trigger. Now the pull was down to 7lbs 9oz.

He got the overall pull down to 4lbs 9oz, which isn't bad at all.

http://www.USAAUG.com may be worth a visit, do a search on trigger lightening or some such.

NTM

Morpheus

HMMM...

Dunno what the CQ will think when I turn up at the armoury tomorrow with 3 grades of sandpaper and a determined look on my face

Isnt that damage of government property or something like that?!?!

concussion

The only things you should use on the weapon are detailed in the manual. So yes, I reckon you'd be in a bit of trouble all right!

c-90

i knew they got alot of freedom with their kit but i didnt think that meant enough freedom to actually choose their rifle. could be an issue when swapping mags tho.

Manic Moran

Could be they have NATO stocks for their AUGs?

NTM

c-90

isnt there a pressure thingy in the trigger guard infront of the trigger to control the trigger pull with your left hand for percise shooting or does it serve another purpose/ is it very usefull?

concussion

Do you mean the ALO which, when up, enables full-automatic fire by allowing the trigger to be pulled all the way to the rear?

c-90

nope, its hard to describe so ill try an put a picture of it up when im home. you'll notice it when the trigger is fully back its on the inside of the trigger guard exactly opposite the trigger, its actually connected to the trigger.

concussion

I think I know what you mean. I'm pretty sure that's that's to stop the trigger being pulled off to the side as it slides back and forward as opposed to rotating around a pivot.

c-90

hah probably is. a corporal told me about it once and i started using it since, really helps getting the right trigger pull.

Morpheus

That doesnt sound right, why would they design a rifle with a barrel grip that your left hand should be holding, if your left hand is instead wrapped around the trigger guard?

gungun

personal preference i guess, what ever makes you more comfortable helps you shoot better

Locust

The AUG a3 would still be accurate enough right?
I always thought that was one of the advantages of bullpup design that the bullet has longer to travel along the barrel helping the accuracy and helps with recoil?

Morpheus

The advantage of bullpup is that the overall rifle length is reduced without having to reduce the length of the barrel.

The theory is that there is no loss of accuracy compared with non bullpup designs with a similiar barrel length.

Bonus is that you now have an inherently shorter rifle with same lethality as non bullpup designs but which are now more usable in situations that would normally require a shorter weapon. its a more multirole weapon. i think thats correct?

It wasn't me!

Balance is also meant to be excellent for the role it's designed for, as it sits nicely back between the hands, so it points quickly and well.

Irish_Army01

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Balance is also meant to be excellent for the role it's designed for, as it sits nicely back between the hands, so it points quickly and well.

If your referring to the A3, your way out..

It wasn't me!

Irish_Army01 wrote: »

If your referring to the A3, your way out..

Oh? It was one of the reasons I'd heard people like bullpups (never shot one myself). It should be the case, with the action further back, and more of the barrel before the front grip, but obviously I couldn't swear to it personally. Strange.

Captain Chaos

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Oh? It was one of the reasons I'd heard people like bullpups (never shot one myself). It should be the case, with the action further back, and more of the barrel before the front grip, but obviously I couldn't swear to it personally. Strange.

Its the balance of the A3's they are front heavy because of the RIS, they add a good bit of weight up front. The A1s are fine.

The HK416 is also front heavy because of the rails and gas piston system when compared to a standard AR15 with plastic handguards and a simple direct gas system.

It wasn't me!

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Its the balance of the A3's they are front heavy because of the RIS they add a good it of weight up front. The A1s are fine.

The HK416 is also front heavy because of the rails and gas piston system when compared to a standard AR15 with plastic handguards and a simple direct gas system.

Cheers, was wondering about that.Seemed obvious that the further back the action and the more barrel behind the front grip there is, the further back the balance is going to sit.

Manic Moran

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Its the balance of the A3's they are front heavy because of the RIS, they add a good bit of weight up front. The A1s are fine.

Still has to be better than the equivalent non-bullpupped rifle with the same gear.

NTM

Manic Moran

Going back to this one, I installed my TriggerLite today.



As you can see, it replaces the tab/buttress/spring-mount in the hammer pack. No tools, a pen will get it out for you. The exchange was very quick, now I know what I'm doing, it would be one minute or less. There's no two ways that it works, the pull is certainly a bit lighter.

You get two pieces of aluminium, each with two hooks on them. You only need one hook, each of the four hooks is in a slightly different place, it's the location of the hook that makes all the difference. Depending on which hook you use, the lighter the trigger pull.

If you haven't figured it out yet, when you pull the trigger back, the trigger is connected to a long rod which goes back into the side of the hammer pack. It then pushes back against the plastic arch (for lack of a better term) which holds the hammer back. After the arch is pushed out of the way, the hammer flies forward. The arch is held in place by a coiled tension spring, one end of which is held in place by the hook. As you use a higher hook, the spring is unwound a bit, thus less tensioned and it applies less pressure to the hammer, thus making it easier to move. (If you want the mathematical answer, it reduces the co-efficient of static friction). I put it on the third-softest hook, and completley non-mathematically, I'd say it knocks between a quarter and a third off the weight of the trigger pull.

Don't spread it around, though. Might give someone an unfair advantage in the next inter-unit shooting competition...

NTM

.22 Lover

That part looks very skimpy for a military service i doubt it would last as long:(

concussion

It's replacing a polymer piece. All it's doing is holding a very smal spring at a different tension.

Manic Moran

.22 Lover wrote: »

That part looks very skimpy for a military service i doubt it would last as long:(

It's machined metal doing the job of injection-molded plastic. I think it should work out.

NTM

Morpheus

I dont think the CQ would appreciate us changing this part of the rifle... seeing how they STILL dont issue us with personal weapons we'd have to do it every time we drew from the stores

Thankfully, due to the current recession and recruitment embargo, things stay the way they are and we'll ALL have TWO personal issue rifles!!!

InTheTrees

coach23 wrote: »

arent the 416 famed for being harder wearing than most and can take alot of dirt dust water grit and mud before a stoppage .

Exactly. I thought they were 100% reliable and practically indestructible.

Poccington

Morphéus wrote: »

I dont think the CQ would appreciate us changing this part of the rifle... seeing how they STILL dont issue us with personal weapons we'd have to do it every time we drew from the stores

Thankfully, due to the current recession and recruitment embargo, things stay the way they are and we'll ALL have TWO personal issue rifles!!!

Speak for youself, I was issued a personal rifle... And it's quite lovely

Morpheus

Speak for youself, I was issued a personal rifle... And it's quite lovely

And you are in the RDF???

Local-womanizer

Morphéus wrote: »

And you are in the RDF???

He's PDF.