Tenant Pocketing Rent allowance Payments!!!

hangover_ie_ie

HI Guys, I seem to be having nothing but bad luck with tenants recently. (before you say oh another moaning landlord I have rented to dozens of great tenants many of whom i remain great friends with from all over the world)

I am renting a room to a chap who lost his job in september, so he an made application for rent allowance back in November.
So November and december went. Being Xmas i was patient. Every week he said he heard nothing even though i had filled in many forms for him to get Rent relief. January came again he said no response from Welfare Same February. He seemed quite depressed about it so i was quite understanding.

Finally in march a cheque came for februarys rent came (Came in addressed to him and with his name on it which he handed over to me that night)
I was surprised there was no back pay which should have been due. He told me that there was one form that wasnt filled in untill Feb so he couldnt get the back pay. I told him that was very very odd and asked him to ring his social officer

He know owes me 1600.00 back rent

I spoke to him the other day putting pressure on him for the back rent and he told me his liason officer in the welfare said he was unlikly to get this, but they would see what they could do

I was suspicious about the whole thing so i rang the relevent social welfare officer and LOW AND BEHOLD there was a cheque posted to my address for the 3 months rent back dated NOV DEC JAN just under 1 grand posted start of February. Posted to my address again in his name for him to cash!

I tackled him this morning and he swears blind he has no cheque and never got one or cashed one from the welfare that was due for rent.

Upshot the Social welfare Officer doesnt want to say to much to me on the phone. He told me Social Welfare must check with their accounts and he has to meet the officer on Monday to see where cheque has gone.
Am i being taken for a fool here???
I smelled a rat when i told him several times since xmas i could ring the welfare office and put a word in as to why he wasnt getting the back pay and he was very definite in NOT getting me involved.
Why do they make these cheques payable to the tenant surely this is very tempting for someone with dishonest tendencies to rip off.
Also should it take the welfare untill Monday to see if someone cashed a cheque issued back in february?
He is living in my house and i dont know if i am living with a complete liar and thief or has this cheque genuinely gone missing should i wait untill monday to see what happens. I am concerned. any thoughts of people who have been in this situation?

D3PO

its not rocket science for welfare to check if the cheque was cashed. If it was bingo hes lying if not they can just cancel it and issue a new one

P.S why have you not told the CWO you want the payments made out to you ? You can do this thefore removing any possibility of getting scammed

Swampy

I'd boot him out the door immediatly. Breach of contract ( assuming he signed one).

You're never going to get the money. Black bag his stuff and dump it outside. Threaten him with social welfare fraud.

January

Wait until Monday, it's very possible the cheque has gone missing and has simply never been cashed. The other possibility is the cheque has been stolen, unfortunately the envelopes they come in are very noticable and i've often heard of cheques being stolen from peoples porches.

Then again, your tenant could just be a thief... For future reference, if you contact the CWO they can organise to pay the rent into your bank account and then send a receipt to the tenant.

safesecure.ie

I had a similar situation, although the rent due to me was only half - cheque from welfare was 'lost in the post' - took ages for the welfare to check, but the cheque was never cashed so was re-issued.

On the other hand, when this guy did move out (arrived home one day and he was gone) he still came to the house every week to wait outside for the postman to collect his cheque.

Only found this out when a new tenant let me know - reported both the postman (as far as I know he's not suppose to give post to people hanging around outside houses?) and also the tenant for welfare fraud.

I always ring social welfare now to let them know when a tenant has moved out.

Graces7

I too had problems re rent allowance cheques.

They were to be paid directly to my bank; SW claimed that the bank had returned the cheque - twice.

John Mason

my tenant gets social welfare rent allowances, the cheques are made out to me and come addressed to me at the house.

i had asked if the money could be paid directly in to my bank account rather then having the hassle of lodging cheques but i was told this wasnt possible by the welfare people i would have thought this was a much cheaper option

paky

He may not be lying. The check might not of got to him. But what was the social welfare doing discussing his claim with you? Surely they must of breached confidentiality?

tenchi-fan

social welfare don't like making out cheques to the landlord because it takes the dignity away from the claimant. or something like that.

This happened in the uk. their social welfare offices stopped issuing cheques to the landlord and issue them directly to the claimant. As a result landlords didn't get their money (which was spent on drink and drugs) and ended up being threatened by the squatters living in their property.

Agent J

paky wrote: »

He may not be lying. The check might not of got to him. But what was the social welfare doing discussing his claim with you? Surely they must of breached confidentiality?

Not if he is the named landlord on the rent allowance claim. As far as i recall the Landlord has some forms to fill in as well so he is an involved party.

The SW is giving him the money to pay the landlord. If the landlord is not recieving it and reports back to the SW the SW cant exactly tell the landlord it isnt any of his business.

D3PO

tenchi-fan wrote: »

social welfare don't like making out cheques to the landlord because it takes the dignity away from the claimant. or something like that.

.

Thats not true. welfare will make the cheque out to the landlord without issue

BostonB

With all the go slow, is the SW behind on its payments for anyone?

rightwingdub

If I were you I'd turf him out plain and simple, but make sure you get in contact with threshold first. He's lying through his teeth.

EKRIUQ

D3PO wrote: »

Thats not true. welfare will make the cheque out to the landlord without issue

No they won't, its being like this for a number of years, its their civil liberty to have the money paid directly to them.

Graces7

EKRIUQ wrote: »

No they won't, its being like this for a number of years, its their civil liberty to have the money paid directly to them.

There is no given option on the rent allowance forms for the payments to be made to the landlord as far as I remember.

That surprise me.

Also here in Donegal you can get the money paid direct to your account; no paper cheques, but a postal noticifation comes very week; pretty harp on the envelope

lucy2010

Funnily enough when I was sorting mine with the CWO - I could ONLY get it paid into the bank monthly. No cheques, no collections from PO. Then I just transfer to LL A/C so most of it is actually paid early each month.

John Mason

EKRIUQ wrote: »

No they won't, its being like this for a number of years, its their civil liberty to have the money paid directly to them.

my tenants social welfare cheque is made out in my name and is posted to my address

Doop

This is a load of BS to be honest, so what if your tenant is getting rent allowance or not. He still HAS to pay you the agreed rent at the agreed time, no offence OP but I think you are being way tooo lieanent with him.

Cheque got lost in the post??? So what, rent is due on X date, have it or get out.

I'm not an Landlord but have house shared many times, i've gotten alot more stick over being a day or to late with the rent then you seem to be giving your tenant for 3 months rent.

Personally I wouldnt believe what he's saying, it doesnt look like you'll get your money, put it off to experience and get rid.

Also SW is his entitlement, it kind of should go directly to him to pass onto you. Not everyone wants people to know they are getting SW. Many tenants also have to top it up with their own cash to make up the difference before lodging it to the agent/landlord.
It can be made out directly to the the landlord at the tenants request tho.

shoegirl

1600 is a fair amount of back rent to pay for a single unemployed tenant. I doubt you'll see this. Make it clear to the CWO that you didn't receive the payments they claim was sent, and at the same time insist you get paid by cheque in future.

In the meantime give the tenant his correct level of notice in writing. If he has given you a deposit you would be entitled to deduct unpaid rent. Sounds to me like he is taking you for a ride.

lukesmom

BostonB wrote: »

With all the go slow, is the SW behind on its payments for anyone?

Yes my husband and I have been waiting for 7 weeks for rent allowance and are told it should be in this week:rolleyes:

BostonB

lukesmom wrote: »

Yes my husband and I have been waiting for 7 weeks for rent allowance and are told it should be in this week:rolleyes:

Thanks for replying. Did they say how they would handle the back payments? It must be causing some tension between landlords and tenants I'd expect.

Graces7

BostonB wrote: »

Thanks for replying. Did they say how they would handle the back payments? It must be causing some tension between landlords and tenants I'd expect.

We got an EFT payment for the back payments.

We had managed to pay meantime. Credit cards are fine in emergency.

And surely if the landlord knows the system?

BostonB

I suspect its not the same in all areas and some areas would be more backlogged than others. I just know a landlord thats still waiting for payments, and heard of others in the area are too. Obvously it discourages landlords for similar tenants and because the tenants are in breach of contract it puts everyone in a difficult situation. Especially as in the topic of this thread it can be abused...

the_syco

Graces7 wrote: »

And surely if the landlord knows the system?

Not all know the system, and as some reply on the rent to pay the mortgage of the house, missing payments randomly is not a good thing.

hangover_ie_ie

Hmmmm well he still one week on cant get an answer from the swo if the cheque was cashed or not.!!!!!!! So ill be calling SWO today. Oh then the tenannt told me they would pay the 1600 out of his own money.... I told him no dont be ridiculous the government will issue a new cheque ( its as good as admitting he stole it i think) I reckon he is cacking it in case swo stops his dole,. will give you updatte later

convert

I shared a house with a person who was receiving rent allowance and had the money lodged to their account each month. They received a receipt each month. The landlord never saw a penny of the rent, and actually gave the tenant the option of paying a little bit of the rent weekly in order to help them out in their difficult situation. Unfortunately the landlord never saw a penny of the rent, while the tenant continued to live the highlife! And when they eventually moved out they owed about E2,000 in arrears!

Having seen the 'worst' side of tenants, I'd be inclined to give your tenant a timeline as to when they should have their rent paid, and if they don't meet it then give them the required notice to move out. Contact threshold and seek their advice so that you know it's 'official' and your tenant can't take a case against you. Logging all conversations you have with him and the social welfare officer about payment of rent could help, too.

Graces7

the_syco wrote: »

Not all know the system, and as some reply on the rent to pay the mortgage of the house, missing payments randomly is not a good thing.

Oh indeed yes. I was just meaning at the start when they are waiting for Rent allowance to click in.

Ours knew there would be a delay; thankfully we got our deposit back from the previous tenancy and had enough credit on our card, but I am sure he would have understood anyway.( He knows the welfare officer personally... )

After that there is no excuse for being behind with the rent. The rent allowance is given for the rent!.

shoegirl

Graces7 wrote: »

The rent allowance is given for the rent!.

Which does make me wonder why it isn't just automatically paid to the landlord, which would prevent fraud from happening in the first place.

January

hangover_ie_ie wrote: »

Hmmmm well he still one week on cant get an answer from the swo if the cheque was cashed or not.!!!!!!! So ill be calling SWO today. Oh then the tenannt told me they would pay the 1600 out of his own money.... I told him no dont be ridiculous the government will issue a new cheque ( its as good as admitting he stole it i think) I reckon he is cacking it in case swo stops his dole,. will give you updatte later

Alarm bells would be ringing in my head here now. It does not take a week to find out if a cheque has been cashed or not. It takes less than 10 minutes on the phone to the accounts department of the DSFA. What does take a week, probably, is finding out who has cashed the cheques! The CWO will be recieving a photocopy of the cheques and will call your tenant into their office to check their signature against the back of the cheque if it has been cashed. There will be an investigation launced then.

goat2

hangover_ie_ie wrote: »

HI Guys, I seem to be having nothing but bad luck with tenants recently. (before you say oh another moaning landlord I have rented to dozens of great tenants many of whom i remain great friends with from all over the world)

I am renting a room to a chap who lost his job in september, so he an made application for rent allowance back in November.
So November and december went. Being Xmas i was patient. Every week he said he heard nothing even though i had filled in many forms for him to get Rent relief. January came again he said no response from Welfare Same February. He seemed quite depressed about it so i was quite understanding.

Finally in march a cheque came for februarys rent came (Came in addressed to him and with his name on it which he handed over to me that night)
I was surprised there was no back pay which should have been due. He told me that there was one form that wasnt filled in untill Feb so he couldnt get the back pay. I told him that was very very odd and asked him to ring his social officer

He know owes me 1600.00 back rent

I spoke to him the other day putting pressure on him for the back rent and he told me his liason officer in the welfare said he was unlikly to get this, but they would see what they could do

I was suspicious about the whole thing so i rang the relevent social welfare officer and LOW AND BEHOLD there was a cheque posted to my address for the 3 months rent back dated NOV DEC JAN just under 1 grand posted start of February. Posted to my address again in his name for him to cash!

I tackled him this morning and he swears blind he has no cheque and never got one or cashed one from the welfare that was due for rent.

Upshot the Social welfare Officer doesnt want to say to much to me on the phone. He told me Social Welfare must check with their accounts and he has to meet the officer on Monday to see where cheque has gone.
Am i being taken for a fool here???
I smelled a rat when i told him several times since xmas i could ring the welfare office and put a word in as to why he wasnt getting the back pay and he was very definite in NOT getting me involved.
Why do they make these cheques payable to the tenant surely this is very tempting for someone with dishonest tendencies to rip off.
Also should it take the welfare untill Monday to see if someone cashed a cheque issued back in february?
He is living in my house and i dont know if i am living with a complete liar and thief or has this cheque genuinely gone missing should i wait untill monday to see what happens. I am concerned. any thoughts of people who have been in this situation?

you mentioned being owed 16 hundred, you will never see that
as he has no money, it will be like blood from a stone

JONJO THE MISER

Id say give the guy a chance O.P, maybe he did spent it but give him say 3 weeks to pay you the money back. Being unemployed is very hard and maybe he just spent the money under pressure. If he is otherwise a good tenant and a nice Guy who is down on his luck id let it slide, we all make mistakes.

Jaysoose

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Id say give the guy a chance O.P, maybe he did spent it but give him say 3 weeks to pay you the money back. Being unemployed is very hard and maybe he just spent the money under pressure. If he is otherwise a good tenant and a nice Guy who is down on his luck id let it slide, we all make mistakes.

I think the tenant has shown that he is not a nice guy and is taking the piss out of the op. The time for being nice has long gone and if they guy wont sort out his own rent issues then report him to the SW and kick him out.

D3PO

OP I dont know why you said no when he said hed pay you the cash from his own money. Regardless of weather he pocketed it or not from your perspective Id be looking to get paid.

RandomName2

Swampy wrote: »

I'd boot him out the door immediatly. Breach of contract ( assuming he signed one).

You're never going to get the money. Black bag his stuff and dump it outside. Threaten him with social welfare fraud.

If a tenant has lived in the property for more than six months you are not allowed simply evict them - even for non-payment of rent. In fact, if the OP back-bin bagged the guys stuff he might be prosecutable!

D3PO

RandomName2 wrote: »

If a tenant has lived in the property for more than six months you are not allowed simply evict them - even for non-payment of rent. In fact, if the OP back-bin bagged the guys stuff he might be prosecutable!

as far as I can make out this is rent a room so its not applicable

convert

Here are some sites which provide information on the requirements for asking a tenant to leave:

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Ireland/Landlord-and-Tenant

http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=241

If you look at threshold's site it clearly states that one of the acceptable grounds for terminating a tenancy is for non-payment of rent:

tenant not complying with their obligations (e.g. not paying their rent)

(if there's no fixed term).

If there is a fixed term then

it cannot under any circumstances be terminated before the expiry of the term, unless the landlord or the tenant is in serious breach of the agreement. Please contact Threshold if you have any query about these rules.

From your above posts, it clearly appears that your tenant is not paying his rent, so you are therefore entitled to terminate the tenancy. However, you need to give sufficient notice to the tenant if you are asking them to leave:

The tenant

cannot be asked to leave during that time unless [they] are in rent arrears or in breach of [their] tenancy obligations. If [they] are in rent arrears, [they] must be notified by the landlord in writing. If [they] have not met [their] rent arrears within 14 days, then the landlord may issue [them] with 28 days notice of termination. [The tenants] are entitled to formal notice of any claim that [they] have broken the tenancy conditions and to be given time to set things right.

http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=240

the_syco

convert wrote: »

From your above posts, it clearly appears that your tenant is not paying his rent, so you are therefore entitled to terminate the tenancy. However, you need to give sufficient notice to the tenant if you are asking them to leave:

Unless the landlord is in the same house. If so, IIRC, you can boot them out with no notice.

convert

the_syco wrote: »

Unless the landlord is in the same house. If so, IIRC, you can boot them out with no notice.

Ooops, misread the OP! Then yeah, I think you can just ask them to leave if they're renting a room in an owner-occupier house.

lukesmom

From what you have said the tenant offered to pay the rent with his own money and you refused this??? Money is money and if you needed it you should have taken it off him when he offered it.

JONJO THE MISER

Any Update O.P?

the_syco

lukesmom wrote: »

From what you have said the tenant offered to pay the rent with his own money and you refused this???

Where did the OP say that?

JONJO THE MISER

Any Update?

electromecca

I have bit diffrent problem. I didnt recieved cheque for last monht, I went to health centre, and there they told me it was issued on 27th last month, so I rang post but they dont kno anything about it and sent me back to welfare. Now
Ive been there today and person I was speakin with told me they cant re-issue cheque and I have to wait for next one!!!
I still hav to pay my landlord 700 with I dont have! Any help what I should do next?

BostonB

Get them to give you a letter to that effect, detailing the the amount the next cheque will be, and see if the landlord will accept that.

Strictly speaking the the SW/HSE is putting you in the position where you'll breaking the contract with the landlord, by paying late. But thats typical of the daft system they've put in place.

But the landlord might overlook it, if you're a good tenant otherwise, and just wait for the next cheque.

electromecca

Thanks BostonB Ill go there next wed.

Merch

You were offered cash! you should have accepted that, sorry to be harsh but I think you brought this on yourself, should have taken a hard line from the start.
can you clarify if this rent a room in your house or renting a room in a house you let?