Probabtion Act...Conviction or Not

Artfully Dodgin

I got the benefit of the Probabtion Act 14 years ago for being very inebriated in Carlow Circuit Court. I payed a fine of £500 and was made to write and read out an essay in court on why the Gardaí are such wonderful people! Judge Mary Martin...what a ball breaker!

I was told at the time that no record will be kept and that I have a clean slate

However im currently applying for a visa to the US and the Gardaí have told me it has been recorded as a conviction? My solicitor tells me it should not have been? Have been doing a lot reading up on this and can't seem to get a right answer. Found this article where a judge criticised the Gardaí for recording these as convictions

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/courts/gardai-told-to-stop-calling-probation-act-a-conviction-1512214.html

and this about a guy geeting caught out in Australia

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2001/07/03/story7066.asp

Tom Young

It depends on the element of the Probation Act which you were given. I believe and need to check it, that one section of the Probation Act in the Circuit Court does result in a conviction. In fact, I think it might have been covered off here already a few weeks back.

ColinJennings

You cannot be guilty of an offence tried on indictment and not have a conviction recorded. You must have been tried on indictment as you were in the Circuit Court.
Under the Probation of Offenders Act, 1907 s1.1 relates to offences of a summary jurisdiction (District Court) and no conviction is recorded. s1.2 relates to offences tried on indictment (Circuit of High Court) and a conviction is recorded.

The only way I can think of an indictible offence not proceeding to conviction where someone either pleads guilty or is found guilty is if the prosecution enter a Nolle Prosequi, but you seem sure that the probation of offenders act was applied, which necessitates a conviction being recorded.

Source: http://www.probation.ie/pws/websitepublishing.nsf/attachmentsbytitle/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907/$file/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907.pdf

Artfully Dodgin

ColinJennings wrote: »

You cannot be guilty of an offence tried on indictment and not have a conviction recorded. You must have been tried on indictment as you were in the Circuit Court.
Under the Probation of Offenders Act, 1907 s1.1 relates to offences of a summary jurisdiction (District Court) and no conviction is recorded. s1.2 relates to offences tried on indictment (Circuit of High Court) and a conviction is recorded.

The only way I can think of an indictible offence not proceeding to conviction where someone either pleads guilty or is found guilty is if the prosecution enter a Nolle Prosequi, but you seem sure that the probation of offenders act was applied, which necessitates a conviction being recorded.

Source: http://www.probation.ie/pws/websitepublishing.nsf/attachmentsbytitle/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907/$file/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907.pdf

Thanks. I think I might be wrong about the case been heard in the Circuit Court as Judge Mary Martin is a District court judge.

Tom Young

ColinJennings wrote: »

You cannot be guilty of an offence tried on indictment and not have a conviction recorded. You must have been tried on indictment as you were in the Circuit Court.
Under the Probation of Offenders Act, 1907 s1.1 relates to offences of a summary jurisdiction (District Court) and no conviction is recorded. s1.2 relates to offences tried on indictment (Circuit of High Court) and a conviction is recorded.

The only way I can think of an indictible offence not proceeding to conviction where someone either pleads guilty or is found guilty is if the prosecution enter a Nolle Prosequi, but you seem sure that the probation of offenders act was applied, which necessitates a conviction being recorded.

Source: http://www.probation.ie/pws/websitepublishing.nsf/attachmentsbytitle/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907/$file/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907.pdf

Yep, this is what I was getting at but couldn't remember the section etc.

It also may have been a slip or error!

Tom

eagle_&_bear

Contact the Circuit Court Office and ask them to raise the records and check the actual court order itself.

you will see what section of the 1907 act is used. If its Section 1(2) then the matter is recorded but dealt with by way of the probation act. If it is Section 1(1) then there is no record at all

If the Court Order deals with it by way of Section 1(1), then speak to a solicitor about amending the record.