1.6 litre estate underpowered?

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Hello all,

I had an earlier thread about this, but I'm still baffled by it. I just bought a Nissan Primera estate 1.6 litres (petrol, year 2002).

Fuel economy is terrible (25mpg extra-urban), and it seems it's due to the 1.6 litre engine being too small for the body. I literally cannot afford to run my new car.

This is ridiculous though! Just bought this car and I went for that engine to actually save fuel, I never thought Nissan would have produced a car that would be so underpowered it gobbled fuel? Does this mean a larger eninge, say a 1.8 petrol, would actually use less fuel than the 1.6?

Frustrated . Have brought it to Advance Pitstop and they say it's prob the small engine.

Anan1

25mpg or runs? There must be something wrong with it.

bazz26

First mistake is that you brought it to Advanced Pitstop. 25mpg is pretty poor so have a proper mechanic check the car out or have a full diagnostic done on it.

But to be honest I always found the Primera 1.6 litre saloon to be underpowered so can only imagine what the heavier estate is like. Small engines in these size cars can be a false economy so they have to work too hard just to push the heavy body around.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Fuel tank capacity is around 55-60 litres as far as I can tell, and from full to virtually empty I got around 310 miles driving (almost totally extra-urban). That's from my study of the fuel gauge.

Trip computer, which may not be reliable, reports avg of 16-19 mpg urban, around 25 extra-urban. Painful!

EPM

You need to have the car checked over properly.

Can be a combination of things - the driver, being underpowered, type of driving, tyre inflation and tracking, load onboard, a malfunction...

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Bazz26: First mistake is that you brought it to Advanced Pitstop

Ah, what's wrong with Advanced Pitstop?

EPM

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

Fuel tank capacity is around 55-60 litres as far as I can tell, and from full to virtually empty I got around 310 miles driving (almost totally extra-urban). That's from my study of the fuel gauge.

Trip computer, which may not be reliable, reports avg of 16-19 mpg urban, around 25 extra-urban. Painful!

Thats not too far off the mark if it's mostly suburban driving to be honest.

My cars a 1.6 and if it was driven mostly around the suburbs I get about 540is km to a tank

Nissan doctor

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

Hello all,

I had an earlier thread about this, but I'm still baffled by it. I just bought a Nissan Primera estate 1.6 litres (petrol, year 2002).

Fuel economy is terrible (25mpg extra-urban), and it seems it's due to the 1.6 litre engine being too small for the body. I literally cannot afford to run my new car.

This is ridiculous though! Just bought this car and I went for that engine to actually save fuel, I never thought Nissan would have produced a car that would be so underpowered it gobbled fuel? Does this mean a larger eninge, say a 1.8 petrol, would actually use less fuel than the 1.6?

Frustrated . Have brought it to Advance Pitstop and they say it's prob the small engine.

Its common sence that a small engine in a big vehicle will not be very fuel efficient as ther smaller engine has to work much harder to move it along. The VW passat is the same, the 1.6fsi engine was shocking on fuel as the car was too heavy for it. 1.4 octavia's are the same.
For load lugging or heavy cars you need a bigger engine or a diesel.


The reason Nissan(and all other manufactures) used to sell such small engines was due to the irish tax system making larger engines much more expensive to tax. If you look in the UK/Europe you will very rarely see the smallest engine variants of the models we get here. Also with the latest move towards emission based vrt/road tax and fuel economy you will note that most manufaturers are discontinuing the base petrol engines in favour of larger diesels etc.



Regarding the comments about Advance pitstop, almost all the larger branches are Advance service centers and have at least one fully qualified mechanic and the complete array of vehicle diagnostics equipment for every vehicle.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Well sh1t, what seemed like a perfectly good car now looks like a mistaken purchase on my part. I can't even afford to run the thing...

Seamu$

If you look up a similar vehicle for sale on Autotrader UK & click on the "Performance & Economy" details it shows the Fuel Consumption to be as follows:
Urban 28.5mpg
Extra-urban 45.6mpg
Combined 37.7mpg

So sounds like there is something wrong alright.

Just wondering though, if you went for that engine to specifically save fuel would you not have considered a diesel car?

biko

You should get more than that, the saloon gets 38 MPG.
I'd start looking at the tyres inflation (also check pads for sticking if car pulls to side) and then move to the engine to see what can be done there.
Is car smoking?
Also google "increase mpg" for more tips.

The driver style is crucial to save fuel, google hypermiling.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Hi Seamus,

I certainly would have alright, but there were several factors in choosing that car - budget, location, etc., and the trade-in on my previous car (Honda Civic). I had been searching for a car like this for quite a while and it seemed to be the best option. Diesel next time for sure! I don't care about speed, performance, etc., you see, I need this for carrying sporting gear around. So fuel economy is priority 1, combined with good boot space.

Nissan doctor

All the above quetoed figure are the manufacturer tested figs and real world driving never gets near them.

What sort of gear are you carrying around, as extra weight will only add to the problem.

Have a look around and see could you trade it off a 2.0 diesel one perhaps?

voxpop

Im getting 22mpg in a 2.5 petrol 5-series doing mostly suburban driving - so yours seems pretty low

Marcaiocht_Tonn

The gear I carry is very light, certainly lighter than one passenger, but long and takes up volume (boards, windsurfing sails etc. - not on the roof! )
My driving style is very conservative, I follow all the tips mentioned in articles like the Hypermiling that biko advised (thanks biko), as I decided to make those changes recently even with the previous car.
The Nissan is in great nick otherwise. Nissan Doctor, I would very happily trade it off now for a diesel, so if I can't improve its mileage (going to take it on one more long trip to see what happens), I'll definitely trade it in.

If I can get it up to mid-30s mpg for long distance, extra-urban driving, I'll consider keeping it. I imagine urban driving is always a case of "all bets are off" with any large car, so I won't worry too much about that. Again thanks for all the posts, very helpful forum!

daveharnett

Parkers reckons 43mpg combined (I know it's higher than the figure for the saloon, but the saloon 1.6 apparently produces more power). Not the most powerful, but the torque output is quite decent for a 1.6 petrol. Sounds like something's amiss.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Hi dave,

thanks for that, interesting info alright. It's actually the 02-06 range that I have, which is a different shell - and Parkers don't have facts and figures for the 1.6 petrol of that range. If I could get it up to mid-30's for main road driving I'd be happy. I just had it serviced, the mechanic said the spark plugs were in a bad state so he changed those out, along with the various filters. He said old plugs might be responsible for the poor economy. Once I take it on the next long trip (I travel around 300 miles most weekends), I'll know if the service has made a difference.

(He also said I need to spend about 330 quid on new front brake discs and pads. D'oh. Going back to the dealer to try and get that done on warranty)

Vertakill

If the pads/discs need replacing now, check that they weren't sticking as biko mentioned.

An easy improvement would be to inflate your tyres to the proper amount before you take your next long weekend trip.


Also, couldn't the MAF have gone dicky, causing the dodgy mpg?

Lisnagry

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

Ah, what's wrong with Advanced Pitstop?

They know S F A about cars.I wouldn't let them put tyres on a gocart!!

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Lisnagry wrote: »

They know S F A about cars.I wouldn't let them put tyres on a gocart!!

Maybe best to have someone else look at it so, with a view to what might be affecting the fuel economy within the workings of the engine - some aspect of it that might fall outside Advanced's remit, and who also has decent experience. Can anyone recommend a mechanic (if it's allowed on the forum), preferably around Dublin city centre?

Guy:Incognito

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

. So fuel economy is priority 1, combined with good boot space.

Not meanign to sound smart but would you not have researched the economy of cars before you spent your money rather than assuming it would be grand. The official figures quoted above are readily availale and easil beaten by other engines in the same car and by other cars in the class.

JimmyCrackCorn

One of my workmates has a slightly older car but the same model.

No way is he getting 25mpg that's 2.0 litre turbo territory. There is something wrong with your car. Find a competent mechanic.

The emissions have to be daft that fuel is going somewhere.

Dark-Mavis

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

Hi dave,

thanks for that, interesting info alright. It's actually the 02-06 range that I have, which is a different shell - and Parkers don't have facts and figures for the 1.6 petrol of that range. If I could get it up to mid-30's for main road driving I'd be happy. I just had it serviced, the mechanic said the spark plugs were in a bad state so he changed those out, along with the various filters. He said old plugs might be responsible for the poor economy. Once I take it on the next long trip (I travel around 300 miles most weekends), I'll know if the service has made a difference.

(He also said I need to spend about 330 quid on new front brake discs and pads. D'oh. Going back to the dealer to try and get that done on warranty, though I suspect I'll get hassle over it. The ongoing minefield that is buying used cars)

Was just going to suggest to get it seviced, filthy air filters will increase fuel consumption a bit.

As already mentioned keep correct pressure in your tires.

Hope the service sorted it for you!

mickdw

If it does the 35 MPG on the next trip, I woud say its normal. No larger petrol car will do much more than that regardless of engine size. I also wouldnt pay too much attention to the official figures, they are usually fantasy.

Eoin

My Alfa 156 1.6 (also too small an engine for the car) got about 33/34 mpg and that was with urban commuting. Something sounds wrong.

Nissan doctor wrote: »

All the above quetoed figure are the manufacturer tested figs and real world driving never gets near them.

I've found the mpg figures quoted on Parkers to be pretty close to my real world experiences in a few different cars.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Stekelly wrote: »

Not meanign to sound smart but would you not have researched the economy of cars before you spent your money rather than assuming it would be grand. The official figures quoted above are readily availale and easil beaten by other engines in the same car and by other cars in the class.

I did indeed research it, hence my astonishment at its current economy! I am given hope by some of the posters here saying that it doesn't sound right, that means there's a good chance that there's a problem here I can fix (rather than a bad engine/body combo).

JimmyCrackCorn: No way is he getting 25mpg that's 2.0 litre turbo territory

Good to hear, was hoping to hear a comparison from someone with a similar car!

So, got it serviced today and I see no major improvement. Took some spins on the M50, even when keeping at a speed of 55mph.

However, one potential thing I noticed, possibly relating to potential sticky brakes as suggested by some previous posters here. When I brake at slow speeds I can hear a kind of squeal for want of a better word. Then when I move the car at slow speeds without braking I hear a similar squeal (reason for slow speed is so these sounds are audible, wouldn't notice them driving at high speed). Anyway, seeing as the same squeal happens even without braking, could that be the brakes sticking? And therefore, explain the high consumption?

Nissan doctor

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

I did indeed research it, hence my astonishment at its current economy! I am given hope by some of the posters here saying that it doesn't sound right, that means there's a good chance that there's a problem here I can fix (rather than a bad engine/body combo).



Good to hear, was hoping to hear a comparison from someone with a similar car!

So, got it serviced today and I see no major improvement. Took some spins on the M50, even when keeping at a speed of 55mph.

However, one potential thing I noticed, possibly relating to potential sticky brakes as suggested by some previous posters here. When I brake at slow speeds I can hear a kind of squeal for want of a better word. Then when I move the car at slow speeds without braking I hear a similar squeal (reason for slow speed is so these sounds are audible, wouldn't notice them driving at high speed). Anyway, seeing as the same squeal happens even without braking, could that be the brakes sticking? And therefore, explain the high consumption?

The sqealing is most likley the wear clips on the pads, this is normal and is intended to let you know when your pads are low.

If you are driving easy and with no weight then there may be an issue, possibly a faulty lambda sensor as these will not show up as an engine fault on the dash of an 02 model.

It might be worth a diagnostic check. Also, was the fuel filter changed in the service?

Marcaiocht_Tonn

The oil filter, air filter and spark plugs were changed in the service - that's all as far as I know. I suspect Advance Pitstop didn't look as deeply into the issue as I asked, in fact they seemed somewhat dismissive of it and used the "engine too small for estate" explanation.

Nissan Doctor, would the wear clips still produce a squealing even when the brakes are not applied?

Is there a particular name for the kind of diagnostic required, or should I bring it to a mechanic, describe the problem and ask him to do the appropriate diagnostic specific to it? Also any mechanic recommendations for Dublin city centre would be very welcome! I know a local mechanic with a small operation near my workplace, very honest guy, just not sure if he has the right kit. Worth a try though!

Nissan doctor

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

The oil filter, air filter and spark plugs were changed in the service - that's all as far as I know. I suspect Advance Pitstop didn't look as deeply into the issue as I asked, in fact they seemed somewhat dismissive of it and used the "engine too small for estate" explanation.

Nissan Doctor, would the wear clips still produce a squealing even when the brakes are not applied?

Is there a particular name for the kind of diagnostic required, or should I bring it to a mechanic, describe the problem and ask him to do the appropriate diagnostic specific to it? Also any mechanic recommendations for Dublin city centre would be very welcome! I know a local mechanic with a small operation near my workplace, very honest guy, just not sure if he has the right kit. Worth a try though!

Yes they will still be noisy when your driving along slowly.

Your car has the latest OBDII/EOBD connection so anyone with a decent diagnostic computer(who knows how to use it fully) will be able to run through all parameters being read by your ecu and see if anything is off.

The lambda sensor could be a likely fault as they can be faulty without causing any obvious running issues and directly affect fuelling.

JimmyCrackCorn

Talked to workmate today. He says he drives like a granny(figuratively).

Your issue may be you driving like a tit(no offence). Iv never come close to the mpg figures as i have a heavy foot.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

Talked to workmate today. He says he drives like a granny(figuratively).

Your issue may be you driving like a tit(no offence). Iv never come close to the mpg figures as i have a heavy foot.

Thanks for talking to your workmate man, good to hear and I appreciate the info! As I stated above I drive very conservatively, if my foot were any lighter it'd be off the pedal. So no t1t-like driving from me, especially now that I've traded in the Civic .

By way of update guys - I've decided to take the car for a diagnostic check at a mechanic in Dun Laoghaire, he's assured me that he has a good computer setup there and that he'll to a test specifically geared towards fuel consumption. I wonder if it is the Lambda sensor, if it is I hope that can be spotted during the test.

BrianD3

However, one potential thing I noticed, possibly relating to potential sticky brakes as suggested by some previous posters here. When I brake at slow speeds I can hear a kind of squeal for want of a better word. Then when I move the car at slow speeds without braking I hear a similar squeal (reason for slow speed is so these sounds are audible, wouldn't notice them driving at high speed). Anyway, seeing as the same squeal happens even without braking, could that be the brakes sticking? And therefore, explain the high consumption?

If your brakes were sticking badly enough to reduce economy by that much, your brake discs, hubs and wheels would be getting extremely hot and you'd probably smell burning and hear strange noises.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

BrianD3 wrote: »

If your brakes were sticking badly enough to reduce economy by that much, your brake discs, hubs and wheels would be getting extremely hot and you'd probably smell burning and hear strange noises.

I do hear a loud clicking and creaking after stopping the car, clearly coming from the front brakes. I thought that was normal heat stresses on the metal? No smell of burning anyway...

merc3ps

Drive around for a while and then (stop and) place your hand on each tyre of the car. Any wheel that has a sticky caliper will feel alot hotter.

Guy:Incognito

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

I did indeed research it, hence my astonishment at its current economy! I am given hope by some of the posters here saying that it doesn't sound right, that means there's a good chance that there's a problem here I can fix (rather than a bad engine/body combo).

My point was though that even the official figures arent anything great.

The research should have pointed to a diesel being much better.

Mr Benevolent

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

I do hear a loud clicking and creaking after stopping the car, clearly coming from the front brakes. I thought that was normal heat stresses on the metal? No smell of burning anyway...

Yikes...

JimmyCrackCorn

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

I do hear a loud clicking and creaking after stopping the car, clearly coming from the front brakes. I thought that was normal heat stresses on the metal? No smell of burning anyway...

not a good add for advanced pitstop if it is heat stress on the breaks. Nissan do like there sticky calapers.


Lets hope it just the exhaust cooling

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Confab wrote: »

Yikes...

Getting the dealer to replace the front brakes on warranty today, so that should put an end to that. Don't think it's the exhaust cooling, pretty sure it was coming from the brakes. Am I to assume that by "yikes" you think it's a sticky caliper?

Regarding research pointing to a diesel being better, that's a fair point. The reality though is that I had some constraints on where, when, and how I bought the car I needed and this one was the front-runner. Excluding the fact that the engine may be too small for the body - something I was not aware of until now as my car knowledge is limited - I think it was reasonable of me to think this car would have reasonable economy (I knew it wouldn't be spectacular, but certainly much better than what it's yielding now).

BrianD3

It was reasonable to expect much more than 25 mpg from that car. I get around 43 mpg from a 1.6 petrol Laguna (similar size, weight and power to your Primera) and around 60 mpg from a 1.5 DCi Megane. Ok the diesel is a lot better - but I can live with the economy of my petrol car and have done so for several years.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

BrianD3 wrote: »

It was reasonable to expect much more than 25 mpg from that car. I get around 43 mpg from a 1.6 petrol Laguna (similar size, weight and power to your Primera) and around 60 mpg from a 1.5 DCi Megane. Ok the diesel is a lot better - but I can live with the economy of my petrol car and have done so for several years.

Cheers Brian, again good to hear that about the Laguna. Well, I'm taking the thirsty beast for a fuel diagnostic next week and here's hoping that the mechanic discovers the cause (if there is one), be it faulty sensor etc.. Perhaps even replacing the front brakes will make a difference, seeing as it could be a sticky caliper. Failing that, it's a toss-up between limiting my usage of it, or selling it on.

Leonard Hofstadter

A weedy little 1.6 is never going to give great fuel returns, especially in an estate of that size, unless you drive it like a nun and/or every journey is 50-55 mph on a smooth road.

It should do much better than 25 mpg but I think if you got 35 mpg out of it in out of town driving you'd be doing well, I think that's about the most you could expect if you drive it like a normal person.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

captainspeed wrote: »

I think if you got 35 mpg out of it in out of town driving you'd be doing well

Agreed, that would be a good result alright.

Well to update you, I just got a call from the dealer - he's changed the front brake pads and discs on warranty. He also looked into the fuel consumption issue and discovered that the throttle body was very dirty, and said that may have affected it to a certain extent. Here's hoping, will take it for a spin and see if it's improved later.

Hal1

Drop in a bottle of Wynns fuel treatment. It will clean the injectors and hopefully improve on the mpg.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Hal1 wrote: »

Drop in a bottle of Wynns fuel treatment. It will clean the injectors and hopefully improve on the mpg.

Thanks Hal1, is that specialist stuff or easy enough to obtain?

Hal1

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

Thanks Hal1, is that specialist stuff or easy enough to obtain?

Any motor factors or halfords stock it.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Thanks Hal. Done!

Well, here's an update on the situation: Plugs, filters changed. Front brake discs and pads changed. New tyres, all inflated to the correct pressure. Throttle body cleaned out. Full service completed. Driving like a nun carrying a volatile crate of nitro glycerene in the back . But no significant change I'm afraid.

I'm getting about 13mpg on the urban cycle (though really, I think urban driving can yield any mpg, all depends on traffic etc.), and I'd reckon 21-25 on extra-urban. And the car occasionally cuts out when pulling to a stop at lights (clutch all the way in, so pretty sure it's not that I'm letting the engine labour as I slow down in too high a gear, etc. It just seems to fail on its own when idling - only sometimes though).

I've contacted a local, honest mechanic (recommended by a friend) who's going to talk to Nissan first, see what I should really expect from this model given its age, engine capacity etc., and following that he's going to give the car a thorough going-over - he certainly thinks the mpg is way too low. Anyway I get the impression that if there is a deeper problem than Advanced Pitstop/Dealer etc could identify, he may get to the bottom of it (be it the faulty sensor that posters here have suggested, etc.)

I'll tell you what lads, whatever the outcome of this situation, Iv'e learned a lot about engine servicing and properly checking over used cars in the process! Always a silver lining...

kerten

if there is fluctuation in idle, you may have problem with mass air flow sensor.

dirty maf sensors in this engines cause engine stop while stopping and idle fluctuation.

I was driving saloon version of it in a really bad traffic in a big city and worst ever I see was 27-28 mpg.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Thanks Kerten, that's interesting alright. Do you know if a problem with the MAF sensor could affect fuel consumption?

JimmyCrackCorn

Dirty MAF causes engine to run lean.

If your not loosing efficiency through induction/exhaust or transmission your emissions should be daft.

The weirder tests you can try is use a vacuum gauge to see if induction is clean.

Compression test to make sure internals are healthy.

A consolt connection to make sure there are no error codes. (nissans OEM code reader)

After that i cant think of anything.

kerten

dirty maf affects fuel consumption but I don't expect more than 10-15% change in fact. your case is worse than that.

checking emissions is a good idea to find out if your car burn petrol with a lean mixture.

I also would like point to thermostat on your engine. if it is broken ans stays open always, your engine gets hot very slowly and that causes extra consumption. These engines warm up very quickly(5 mins or 2 km at most).

If it doesn't warm up quickly and you are travelling less than 10km this causes extra fuel consumption

ShiresV2

The torque figures quoted for engines are completely meaningless until you take the gear ratios into account. It's torque at the driven wheels that matters, NOT at the flywheel. Gears act as torque multipliers. It's hard to believe how universally misunderstood this is.