Can non-believers be pleasing to God?

Stephentlig

Do you think non believers can do/perform acts that be pleasing to God?

Just wondering what my fellow Christians thoughts are on this before I state my position as I've mixed feelings about this one.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Fanny Cradock

Most certainly.

PDN

Absolutely.

Stephentlig

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Most certainly.

For me, I always think that in order for it to be an act pleasing to God, it must Be done in faith in him and in his name otherwise its not charity in truth and can only be seen as sentimentality a performing act otherwise done in vain.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Erkhan

None believers do as much good and bad as believers. Is a bad action carried out by a none believer worse than the same action carried out by a believer?.

old hippy

Can god be pleasing to non-believers? As a non-believer; I would say no.

Why? Because the idea that our acts, our life, somehow has to be vetoed by a concept is offensive, tbh.

Athiests and people of other persuasions can be perfectly moral beings without existing under a deity's domain.

Stephentlig

None believers do as much good and bad as believers.

True but for believers like myself, it can only be seen as a good act done in vain and if not done in faith in Jesus Christ can not be charity in truth.

Is a bad action carried out by a none believer worse than the same action carried out by a believer?.

I've heard various opinions on this one, In order for a mortal sin to be mortal it must have full consent of the will and the faithful person must acknowledge that he has commited a mortal sin, all of which I say without referring to my catechism as I'm feeling quite lazy at the moment lol but I will look it up later.

Slugs

Rather paradoxical question given the fact that by being a non-believer, we're inherently upsetting your deity.

Fanny Cradock

Stephentlig wrote: »

For me, I always think that in order for it to be an act pleasing to God, it must Be done in faith in him and in his name otherwise its not charity in truth and can only be seen as sentimentality a performing act otherwise done in vain.

Pax Christi
Stephen

If somebody tends to the sick, feeds the poor, heals a hurt or whatever they are doing good. God is good. So why would he not approve?

I see a great deal of good done by non-Christians. I applaud it and I think they should be encouraged in their good work. Who knows, perhaps God uses these people to build his Kingdom all the same.

Fanny Cradock

old hippy wrote: »

Athiests and people of other persuasions can be perfectly moral beings without existing under a deity's domain.

I'm not sure anyone claimed otherwise.

Stephentlig

If somebody tends to the sick, feeds the poor, heals a hurt or whatever they are doing good. God is good. So why would he not approve?

I feel the reason is because it is not done in his name and although they are good acts they go in vain if not done in Truth.

I see a great deal of good done by non-Christians. I applaud it and I think they should be encouraged in their good work. Who knows, perhaps God uses these people to build his Kingdom all the same.

Yes I believe the Holy Spirit uses everyone to do good acts of course, but if it isnt done in his name ( I reiterate ) its done in vain.

Stephentlig

Slugs wrote: »

Rather paradoxical question given the fact that by being a non-believer, we're inherently upsetting your deity.

Thus confirming my assumption that they cannot do acts pleasing to God, at least I think so for now.

Slugs

Stephentlig wrote: »

Thus confirming my assumption that they cannot do acts pleasing to God, at least I think so for now.

Well I mean according to the bible, we're ****ed anyway, what difference does it make if we please your deity

iUseVi

Slugs wrote: »

Well I mean according to the bible, we're ****ed anyway, what difference does it make if we please your deity

Aww I and thought this thread might actually be interesting.

Stephentlig

Slugs wrote: »

Well I mean according to the bible, we're ****ed anyway, what difference does it make if we please your deity

Well slugs, God loves you to your very last, to the point where your even facing him, but due to your unwillingness to believe you yourself are the one who chooses the other slope and condemns yourself. but that is not the conversation route I wanna go down and would love to keep this on topic.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Fanny Cradock

Stephentlig wrote: »

I feel the reason is because it is not done in his name and although they are good acts they go in vain if not done in Truth

Then you seem to be denying that a good deed in itself has intrinsic value to God. It seems to me that a logical outcome of your way of thinking would be for Christian charities to not bother forming alliances with secular charities because the latter don't profess to be doing whatever it is they are doing for God.

Stephentlig

Then you seem to be denying that a good deed in itself has intrinsic value to God.

it only has intrinsic value if done in his name, otherwise it goes in vain, but I'm not denying the fact that God can inspire a non-believer and use them to do good.

It seems to me that a logical outcome of your way of thinking would be for Christian charities to not bother forming alliances with secular charities because the latter don't profess to be doing whatever it is they are doing for God.

Not at all, as we have already mentioned God uses non-believers to carry out good, but if they do not carry that Good out in Truth and in the name of Jesus Christ then it goes in vain.

Slugs

Stephentlig wrote: »

Well slugs, God loves you to your very last, to the point where your even facing him, but due to your unwillingness to believe you yourself are the one who chooses the other slope and condemns yourself. but that is not the conversation route I wanna go down and would love to keep this on topic.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Well stephen, when I'm in Valhalla having sex, fighting with my viking brethren, and thoroughly enjoying the afterlife, the only thing I'll be thanking is my mind, for not succumbing to such nonsense. But since you don't wish to go down that route, I'll leave you to your ailment. Adieu.

Fanny Cradock

I feel that I have to point out that I am passionately opposed to the idea that non-believers can't be pleasing to God. Indeed, I think we should all be more concerned if we believers are doing things that are pleasing to God.

Fanny Cradock

Slugs wrote: »

Well stephen, when I'm in Valhalla having sex, fighting with my viking brethren, and thoroughly enjoying the afterlife, the only thing I'll be thanking is my mind, for not succumbing to such nonsense. But since you don't wish to go down that route, I'll leave you to your ailment. Adieu.

Toodles. Please read the charter before you next decide to pipe up.

Slav

Stephentlig wrote: »

Do you think non believers can do/perform acts that be pleasing to God?

Just wondering what my fellow Christians thoughts are on this before I state my position as I've mixed feelings about this one.

Faith is just the means not the ends. Tertullian once made a very interesting and I think very accurate observation: human soul is naturally Christian.

Christ himself said what pleases God:

"For I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in; I was naked, and you clothed me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me."
Then the righteous will answer him, saying, "Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?"
The King will answer them, "Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me." (Matthew 25:35-40)

As we see being a believer or non-believer is pretty much irrelevant. He did not say: inherit the kingdom because you believed in me and did what you did because your faith motivated you. It's just love and only love that counts. However the standards of that love are rather high:

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, just like I have loved you; that you also love one another. (John 13:34)

strobe

Stephentlig wrote: »

Not at all, as we have already mentioned God uses non-believers to carry out good, but if they do not carry that Good out in Truth and in the name of Jesus Christ then it goes in vain.

Perhaps it would help if you expanded somewhat on what you mean specifically by "in vain" Stephen?

Splendour

Stephentlig wrote: »

Do you think non believers can do/perform acts that be pleasing to God?

Just wondering what my fellow Christians thoughts are on this before I state my position as I've mixed feelings about this one.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two silver coins[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
36"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"

37The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

krudler

Stephentlig wrote: »

Not at all, as we have already mentioned God uses non-believers to carry out good, but if they do not carry that Good out in Truth and in the name of Jesus Christ then it goes in vain.

depends on what you mean by carrying out good, I picked up an old womans keys after she dropped them at the checkout in Tesco yesterday, she said thanks, but as I didnt do that for anyone else but her, Jesus included, I may as well have left her to pick them up herself?

sometimes god doesnt even coe into the equation when a person does something for the good of another.

on the flip side, if someone does something evil in the name of god, does that make it ok? some of the most horrific things imaginable have been done to please god or at least attempt to, does that make them right?

Zombrex

Stephentlig wrote: »

Do you think non believers can do/perform acts that be pleasing to God?

Just wondering what my fellow Christians thoughts are on this before I state my position as I've mixed feelings about this one.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Apologies if I'm misrepresenting you, but I think you are saying something similar to a theme that comes up a lot when discussing the purpose of life without God with atheists, that any actions we do in this finite temporal existence are ultimately pointless in the grand scheme of things if they don't lead to a relationship with God. So when an atheist says I have purpose in my life a common Christian response is that your given purpose is ultimately meaningless as it does not lead you to God's purpose for you.

Sort of similar?

old hippy

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm not sure anyone claimed otherwise.

So you don't think my statement bears any relation to the patronising thread title, then? Fair enough.

StormWarrior

I thought it says in the bible something like, "Your good works are just filthy rags in the eyes of the lord"? So I don't see how a non-believer's works would be enough to please.

opinion guy

Stephentlig wrote: »

I feel the reason is because it is not done in his name and although they are good acts they go in vain if not done in Truth.

Ok - serious question. you've several times said the good acts "go in vain". Where do they go ???

Fanny Cradock

old hippy wrote: »

So you don't think my statement bears any relation to the patronising thread title, then? Fair enough.

It's not a patronising thread title. You seem to have skipped over the word "pleasing to God". It has already been granted that can do good or be moral or whatever irrespective of their faith. You seem to be taking offence at attempts to explore the opinion of a Being you presumably don't believe in.

Stephentlig

Infact after doing some research I found out that the Medugorje visionaries whilst having a vision of St.Mary saw behind her a muslim woman in heaven, and they asked why she got into heaven since she wasnt Christian as they were confused a little But Mother Mary responded with something along the lines of she was a good mother wasnt she?

Thank you slav, splendour and Fanny for your posts also drove it home too.

Pax Christi
Stephen

antiskeptic

Stephentlig wrote: »

Do you think non believers can do/perform acts that be pleasing to God?

Leaving aside the Calvinist viewpoint (which has God chose who to be saved/damned - aside from any "input" on our part), I'd say that our bowing to his will that we be saved pleases him most of all.

Thomas828

I think that whether you're a believer or non-believer, if you're living a clean life, that is, avoiding things and deeds that Jesus considers sinful, and if you do things that Jesus considers good, then surely you are pleasing to God. God loves you even if you don't believe in Him. But what would please Him most is if you did come to believe in Him. There are countless atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. who live their lives very much like Christians ought to, and I think God approves of them.

dermothickey

A good deed done without Love is simply not from the Heart, there is no feeling. Just because someone believes in God does not mean that their deeds are done with Love. A lot of the time the motivation by doing a good deed is done from fear, as in if i dont do this thing God is watching and will know I refused to help in my Heart, so I better do it. All good deeds done without Love serve no benefit in bringing you closer to God, they are only good deeds. Living a life with Love In your Heart brings you closer and closer to the creator. Wether you believe in the creator or not, what matters is how much you Live your life in Love. So those who help others with joy and Love for sure are living the benefits of a life closer to the Creator.It is not what you do it's how is your Heart when you are doing it that matters. So for example a person who believes In The Creator and does many good things for people but, does it out of fear or arrogance even though he spent his whole life helping others, it will mean nothing as their Hearts have'nt understood about Love and are therefore heavily burdened.. Someone who joyfully and with full Love from their Heart helps others or even just lives their Lives it will mean everything as their Hearts have understood more and more about Love and how much a joy it is to Love one another.

wolfsbane

Stephentlig wrote: »

Do you think non believers can do/perform acts that be pleasing to God?

Just wondering what my fellow Christians thoughts are on this before I state my position as I've mixed feelings about this one.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Definitely not:
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.


That is not to say all their works are equally evil. The work itself may be good, but it is not directed to God. It is thus disqualified as pleasing God.

Titus 1:15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.

PeakOutput

wolfsbane wrote: »

Definitely not:
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.


That is not to say all their works are equally evil. The work itself may be good, but it is not directed to God. It is thus disqualified as pleasing God.

Titus 1:15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.

so good deeds dont please god unless they are done in his name? now THAT sounds pretty vain and also contradictory to the passage your fellow believer posted

this is one of the main reasons im at best agnostic and worst(in your eyes) atheist, the idea that an all knowing all powerful god would be as selfish and vain to only want good deeds to be done by people who believe in him is one of the most ridicolous concepts ever conceived. any god that would 'punish' an other wise good person for simply not believing in him is a god not worth worshiping

wolfsbane

PeakOutput wrote: »

so good deeds dont please god unless they are done in his name? now THAT sounds pretty vain and also contradictory to the passage your fellow believer posted

this is one of the main reasons im at best agnostic and worst(in your eyes) atheist, the idea that an all knowing all powerful god would be as selfish and vain to only want good deeds to be done by people who believe in him is one of the most ridicolous concepts ever conceived. any god that would 'punish' an other wise good person for simply not believing in him is a god not worth worshiping

Slav is mistaken in thinking the text referred to non-believers.

God wants good deeds done by all, but done in respect for Him. You err in thinking unbelief is not a great crime against God.

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,

PeakOutput

wolfsbane wrote: »

You err in thinking unbelief is not a great crime against God.

why?

wolfsbane

PeakOutput wrote: »

why?

Because God says it is.

It is the essence of disrespect, for no one is truly ignorant of God's existence - they just effectively suppress that truth in their evil heart, and Satan keeps them blind to it. Self-deceit supporting rebellion against the one true God, their creator. A soul-damning crime.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

_________________________________________________________________
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”