Air Rifle Newbie

ciaranmc

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could recommend me a air rifle ?
I am 22 and would want it for target shooting on a private property and maybe at a range every few months?

I know i need to apply for a license for this and need to get a gun safe.
For the license do you still need two land owners as for other guns?

How much would you say it should cost to get everything set up?

any help of websites to look and compare guns etc would be greatly appreciated.

Is there anything i should do or need to do?


Thanks in advance.

Tackleberrywho

Department of justice website.
You are not allowed to shoot Targets unless on a prescribed range.

I know little on air rifles, I think some of the Mods on the site shoot air rifle.
Most modern Air rifles are Co2 AFAIK but I could be wrong.

Air rifles can be more expensive than rifles .22lr might be a better option for you

dCorbus

Hi ciaranmc, any particular reason you're leaning toward chosing an air-rifle? This may limit the uses to which you could put the rifle to...just a thought.

target shooting on a private property

Not permitted by the Law.;) So, a word of advice, do not put this down as your reason for owning the firearm on your form, as it won't fly.

some of the Mods on the site shoot air rifle

Ah, there's one, but he's usually quite shy and reticent!:D;)

Which range had you in mind for the air-rifle shooting? AFAIK there's Rathdrum RPC in Wicklow and Wilkinstown in Meath (Must be more?), there's also UCD and TCD if you're a graduate or student of these?

My thoughts: If it's "plinking" and informal target shooting (at a range), with some casual hunting / vermin control, the 22 is the way to start.

Maybe, have a look at this on the For Sale section: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055880290 (Nice rifle and good price to get started)

This one to: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055874480

For comparative prices, check out Duffy's website on www.shoot.ie and then ring around as many dealers as you can.

New 22lr CZ452 plus scope = max. €650, then add in your licence fee, safe, ammo (about 10c a round or so), sling, bipod, case, cleaning kit, etc.

ciaranmc

Hey

Cheers for the reply's lads.

Im living in north dublin so was thinking of courtlough shooting grounds in balbriggan. anyone have any comments on them? I only picked there because its my side of the city, but i can travel if anyone has other recommendations.

Cheers for the heads up about the private land would be quiet bad if i had went in saying that alright.

To be honest with you it was just more for recreational target shooting if thats the right way to put it. nothing to serious just something i would be interested in doing.

I wouldn't be into the hunting side of things hence the targets and air rifle:)


Any more thoughts on what would suit me best?

dCorbus

I wouldn't be into the hunting side of things hence the targets

Like myself so.

Can't comment on Courtlough - Haven't been there yet.

If you're in North County Dublin, maybe try Wilkinstown: http://www.targetshootingexcellence.org/frequently-asked-questions/target-shooting/4.html They're just north of Navan, so maybe not a million miles away from you.

Generally speaking, if you want to get into target shooting, some travel will be involved. Based in Dublin city myself, but I'm up and down to Midland MNSCI on a regular basis, into town to DURC, and sometimes you'll find me in Rathdrum RPC at competitions, Hilltop on occasion, or even further afield, Castlemaine for example. Best to check out the various options and if you can travel, pick the best range and club to suit your shooting not your location as travel will inevitably be required to get the most out of your sport.

Check out these websites and don't be shy emailing the various clubs and organisations to get advice, arrange visits, and investigate (that how I got started not a million years ago) - you'll find the best places to shoot are the most helpful:

Midlands / MNSCI (Contact JP, he's sound and a great man to get really good advice from): http://www.nationalshootingcentre.ie/
NRAI http://www.nrai.ie/
NASRPC (A great bunch and very helpful) http://www.nasrpc.ie/
NTSA (The governing body for ISSF, "olympic-style", shooting) http://www.targetshooting.ie/
Rathdrum RPC (A great club and venue - Excellent guys) http://www.rathdrumrpc.org/
East Coast Shooting Club http://www.eastcoastshootingclub.com/

That's just a few I can think of which may be helpful.

And trust me:

it was just more for recreational target shooting

That's how it starts.....it's a rocky road to this particular addiction...:D

Boards is great for advice and there's lads on here from all the shooting sports and disciplines (and yes, we do all have our various biases:rolleyes:), so my advice would be to get in touch with a couple of the groups mentioned above and take it from there. Come back with any questions you may have.....there'll always be someone on here with an answer.:D

Not too far passed being a total newbie myself (and no smart ones, lads!), so feel free to PM me if you'd like.

milkerman

If you are just into 'hunting' tin cans and dont want to go down the road of formal target clubs you will need permissions from two land owners or a game club. The 'reason' for needing the air rifle being vermin control.
A tin can hanging by a string at 40 yds is a challenge for an air rifle and great sport PLUS you learn a hell of a lot with an air rifle.
Weihrauch make a good air rifle. There are 2 on the shelf in Griffen Hawe in Athy, hw97k thumbhole at 650euro. Expensive I know but it is a gorgeous gun and very accurate. I am sure other dealers may have theobens or fx but I think the weihrauch gives you the most for your euro. Run away screaming from BSA!

IRLConor

If Wilkinstown isn't too much of a hike URL="http://www.mcdermottroe.com/shooting/clubs/locations/map.php?club=Wilkinstown+Target+Shooting+Club"]location[/URL, it's worth a look. It's a fairly relaxed and friendly club despite being very strong on the competitive side of things.

Sparks is a member there so if you're interested in having a look at the club drop him a PM.

xesse

:eek: you could shoot a tin can at 40 yrds with an airpistol
you should be putting them in the same hole with an air rifle:D:D:D

milkerman wrote: »

If you are just into 'hunting' tin cans and dont want to go down the road of formal target clubs you will need permissions from two land owners or a game club. The 'reason' for needing the air rifle being vermin control.
A tin can hanging by a string at 40 yds is a challenge for an air rifle and great sport PLUS you learn a hell of a lot with an air rifle.
Weihrauch make a good air rifle. There are 2 on the shelf in Griffen Hawe in Athy, hw97k thumbhole at 650euro. Expensive I know but it is a gorgeous gun and very accurate. I am sure other dealers may have theobens or fx but I think the weihrauch gives you the most for your euro. Run away screaming from BSA!

Sparks

xesse wrote: »

:eek: you could shoot a tin can at 40 yrds with an airpistol

End on. And you probably wouldn't need to adjust the sights much - dCorbus, IRLConor, IWM and I were testing my Glock46M a fortnight ago and found that it would happily put a pellet through the ten ring of a 25yd rifle target at 25yds without adjustments to the sights, it's that flat-shooting.
And that's a manually-charged air pistol, not a fancy PCP one.

Folks tend to put airguns down, but they'll surprise you if you let them...

Mr.Flibble

Sparks wrote: »

it would happily put a pellet through the ten ring of a 25yd rifle target at 25yds without adjustments to the sights, it's that flat-shooting.

Do you use a 6 o'clock hold? If so, wouldn't you be aiming a bit higher on the 25yd target because it's proportionately much smaller? I'd estimate the difference at c.8 mins.

rrpc

Mr.Flibble wrote: »

Do you use a 6 o'clock hold? If so, wouldn't you be aiming a bit higher on the 25yd target because it's proportionately much smaller? I'd estimate the difference at c.8 mins.

Not between the aiming mark of the ISSF air pistol target and the aiming mark of the NSRA 25 yard smallbore rifle target. There's only a couple of millimetres in diameter difference between the two. The AP one is the larger of the two.

In fact they're so close in size that we've had to label the Megalink target masks VERY CLEARLY to stop people using the wrong ones.

Sparks

True - but my math puts it at ~0.1 moa and if you can hold that steady in air pistol, you should be trying out for the nationals

NSRA 25yd aiming mark = 51.39mm@25yd (it's actually 23.5yd in DURC, but meh...)
ISSF 10m AP aiming mark = 59.5mm@10m

51.39:22860 -v- 59.5:10000
To be the same size, the 25yd target would have to be ~131mm in size, it's not, so you're aiming (131-51.39/2)=41mm higher, = arctan(41/22860) = 0.11moa.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

True - but my math puts it at ~0.1 moa and if you can hold that steady in air pistol, you should be trying out for the nationals

NSRA 25yd aiming mark = 51.39mm@25yd (it's actually 23.5yd in DURC, but meh...)
ISSF 10m AP aiming mark = 59.5mm@10m

51.39:22860 -v- 59.5:10000
To be the same size, the 25yd target would have to be ~131mm in size, it's not, so you're aiming (131-51.39/2)=41mm higher, = arctan(41/22860) = 0.11moa.

D'Oh!, forgot to factor in the distance...

Sparks

It's not that big a factor, especially with DURC's... unique take on the 25yd range

It is interesting to see what these little airguns will do - it surprised most of us when the Izzy happily punched pellets through seven layers of ply on the target boards at 10m in Midlands, and continued to do so half the time at 25yds, even through the pellets hit tail end first...

Bananaman

Lots of big hard sums for the OP

As dCorbus said there are a lot of target disciplines you can get into - some have restrictions of the type of firearm and some do not -

It should be noted that you can shoot air rifle anywhere you can shoot cartridge rifle - it is the disciplines that may be restricted on certain ranges - my own club is Hilltop where we are primarily a cartridge rifle club (obviously shotgun and pistol club also) but you do see the occassional lad heading onto the various ranges with a scuba bottle (and as the name suggests we are on top of a hill ;-) )

there is Benchrest rifle - as you mentioned courtloigh then this is what you have seen - NASRPC run the smallbore ( .22) version of this in Ireland and it is available on most ranges and there is a competition at least every month - usually shot to 50m there are also 25m and 100m variants.


There is sporting and prone rifle - as the names suggest this is shot prone with different disciplines for different rifles - there is the sporting version which is aimed at your 'standard' .22 rifle and many others - not available on every range but still very popular

both of these disciplines will be shot at the next NASRPC shoot in East Coast Shooting Club in Roundwood Wicklow on the 25th of this month

there is gallery rifle but that is currently aimed at semi rifles in smallbore

there is also silhouette shooting which is run by the NSAI

that is but a few of the sports on offer for a .22 rifle and as I said there are a lot of clubs and ranges where you can either practice or take part in competition

I have not taken part in any of the air rifle specific disciplines so I'll leave that to those who have to explain - I have on occassional followed the guys with the scuba bottles and got a few shots - I did not see any real difference between a good 22 cartridge rifle and a good 22 air rifle (bar the obvious frogman aspect)

have a look at www.NASRPC.ie for more details on the clubs and sports of the NASRPC - www.SSAI.ie will give you links to other NGBs and www.targetshooting.ie is for the Olympic disciplines (I know, I know that's a lot of webspace for a few sports but try to tune out the politics)

have fun and enjoy whichever sport (or however many you can give up the time for) you get hooked on.

See you on the range somewhere

B'Man

ciaranmc

Hey.

Thanks for everyones replies,i got lost a few posts back when the number crunching came about but im back on track now:)

so are you saying you can use a air rifle on private land with the permission of the land owner?

Is there a big difference in price between air rifles and a rifle?

My next stage is i am going to try out different places and try their club guns(I hope they do this) and see how i get on.

Mr.Flibble

Sparks wrote: »

To be the same size, the 25yd target would have to be ~131mm in size, it's not, so you're aiming (131-51.39/2)=41mm higher, = arctan(41/22860) = 0.11moa.

O.k., I'm a shooter, not a cyberneticist, so you lost me there. Especially with the arctan bit - I thought that was digital camo for the Alpenkorps.

1 moa is approx 1" at 100yds

41mm is approx 1.6"

So at 25yds 41mm is approx 1.6 x 4 = c.6.5moa. O.k., not 8, but a lot closer than 0.11.

Or am I missing something?


Regarding the hold, I underestimated you - I assumed that to get consistent hits on the 25yds 10-ring you were resting the pistol. Sorry.


Apologies to the OP for diverting the thread.

rrpc

To continue the diversion , 1 MOA at 25 yards is about ¼" so you're about right in my opinion.

It's a simple enough equation made considerably more difficult by Sparks

MOA is 2πr/21600 (360 degrees * 60 minutes)
π is 3.14159
r is the length of the range in inches

100 yards is 3600 inches, so 2*3.14159*3600/21600 = 1.047"

QED

Mr.Flibble

rrpc wrote: »

1 MOA at 25 yards is about ¼" so you're about right in my opinion.

It's a simple enough equation made considerably more difficult by Sparks

Are you saying Sparks is wrong by nearly two orders of magnitude, because he outsmarted himself with his own arctan?

He won't like that.

Sparks

I think I actually managed to outsmart myself by hitting the wrong mode button on the calculator (0.11 degrees not minutes... bother).
The button shall pay!

Bananaman

ciaranmc,

You don't need a calculator to take part in the shooting sports - just in case you were beginning to think so.

I don't have any idea what the muzzle velocity of anything is or any other stats and I do just fine. I find that even using binoculars to see what score I got interrupts the shooting too much never mind breaking out the slide rule to try and blame a planetary alignment for the fact that I got a 9 instead of a 10.

B'Man

Sparks

Neither (or so I thought) are we bigoted against folks who can still remember their junior cert maths...

Bananaman

It was the group cert and inter cert in my day (and yes - we did use slide rules) - I remember seeing the first 'personal calculator' which could do a square root - it was the size of a shop till and had a crank handle on it - none of them pesky batteries.

but that has nothing to do with what the OP asked.

B'Man

Sparks

True...
...but then folks were recommending .22 rifles to a lad who was asking about air rifles and noone got swatted for that, and it lead to a better thread.

(And it was the inter cert for me too B'man, but the OP is only 22...)

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

ciaranmc,

You don't need a calculator to take part in the shooting sports - just in case you were beginning to think so.

I don't have any idea what the muzzle velocity of anything is or any other stats and I do just fine. I find that even using binoculars to see what score I got interrupts the shooting too much never mind breaking out the slide rule to try and blame a planetary alignment for the fact that I got a 9 instead of a 10.

B'Man

You make an interesting point B'Man, one which I've encountered quite a bit lately.

It may all sound like bullcrap, but the fact is that for those shooting rifle and even pistol (if they are lucky enough to have one with adjustable sights), knowing what the difference is between different distances with regard to your sights seems to be a lost skill these days.

Perhaps it's because of milldot scopes or shooting constantly at the same range and distance but I'm finding more and more that people do not know how to adjust their scopes or sights or even what the settings on them are.

We've had to leave a lane free in Rathdrum for sporting rifle shoots to allow competitors zero their sights before the competition. Invariably I find that a lot of guys don't know what fraction of a minute each click that their sight adjustment makes.

It's not the end of the world and I'm happy to help out, but it's surprising that more people don't have this essential piece of info off by heart.

ciaranmc

Im back again.

Could anyone recommend me any ranges/shops to look at air rifles?
How many reasons must you put down on your license form to obtain your license? Is it the same as any other gun with the two land owner's consent?

What air rifles would you recommend to look at that don't require diver tanks?
I was thinking of a break barrel?

Cheers for the help again.