Cistern won't empty when I flush - Help!

Compudaro

Cistern full of water but won't empty when I flush. Checked the handle's connection to the arm - perfect. Googled the problem, apparently my diaphragm has had it???? My cistern is surrounded by tiling so it's going to be a job and a half to get underneath it to replace the diaphragm.
Can anyone recommend a plumber (South Dublin/North Wicklow) who won't break the bank for doing the job?

Thanks

Joey the lips

All that goes on the diaphragm is a peice of plastic. The plastic sheet is available from excel industries in coolmine or uppercross on the southside. Phone excel for you nearest agent. It costs about .68c trade although the baxtards will charge you about a fiver. Depending on the type of cistern fitting it might be accessable from the top. All you need to know when ordering is if the diaphragm is round our rectangle square if you catch my drift.

Can not remember the tele phone no for excel sorry.

Kashkai

Yes but changing it will be tricky or so I've learned from the web. If what I've seen is correct, it'll mean taking the cistern off the wall. If there's an easier way to replace a diaphragm on a shires toilet, I'm all ears

Joey the lips

It depended which shires one it is but a lot have the option of unscrewing the syphone from the inside of the cistern half way up the pipe.

The op never replied so take it its allsorted

Compudaro

Thanks for the advice! I braved the job and managed to remove the old syphon unit and replace it with one I bought in Woodies for 9 euro! Only proble is the cistern seems to be leaking ever-so-slightly underneath. I've removed and re-fitted the syphon unit and have a rubber washed on each side. However, even as tight as I could make it, there's still a leak.

Any advice on how to cure this VERY much appreciated!

Kashkai

I'd use Tech7 which can be bought from most DIY stores. It's main use is sealing gutters as it can be applied to wet surfaces and it dries and stops the leak. So it would work in your case. However it dries rock hard so if you need to undo your recent work in the future, you may have problems.

Can you let me know how you changed the syphon as I have a similar job to do. Thanks

Joey the lips

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

I'd use Tech7 which can be bought from most DIY stores. It's main use is sealing gutters as it can be applied to wet surfaces and it dries and stops the leak. So it would work in your case. However it dries rock hard so if you need to undo your recent work in the future, you may have problems.

Can you let me know how you changed the syphon as I have a similar job to do. Thanks

Tec 7 s great but if it were me I would just use a simple silicone in case I need to take it back again.


What you do is apply the silicone to the "donut" its the round foam pce that sits in the middle. The reason its leaking is it has become distored. The silicone will sort it.

Kashkai

I changed the syphon which was easy enough to do but there was only a marginal improvement in the flush. So I dismantled the toilet and pulled out the bowl. I found that the inlet hole where the water from the cistern enters the bowl was full of silicone, presumably put there by the cack handed plumber who installed the toilet during the building construction. I spent the best part of 40 minutes cleaning out the silicone and I reassembled the toilet. The flush was much improved but still not 100 per cent IMO. All the water flushes down the back third of the toilet. There is no flow at the sides or front of the bowl. Any ideas??

Btw I noticed that there are two holes on the side of the syphon that are plugged by a small plastic cap that o can pull off and put back on. The old syphon has the same two holes but was missing the plastic cap. Do these holes serve a function and should they be uncovered or not?

Joey the lips

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

I changed the syphon which was easy enough to do but there was only a marginal improvement in the flush. So I dismantled the toilet and pulled out the bowl. I found that the inlet hole where the water from the cistern enters the bowl was full of silicone, presumably put there by the cack handed plumber who installed the toilet during the building construction. I spent the best part of 40 minutes cleaning out the silicone and I reassembled the toilet. The flush was much improved but still not 100 per cent IMO. All the water flushes down the back third of the toilet. There is no flow at the sides or front of the bowl. Any ideas??

Btw I noticed that there are two holes on the side of the syphon that are plugged by a small plastic cap that o can pull off and put back on. The old syphon has the same two holes but was missing the plastic cap. Do these holes serve a function and should they be uncovered or not?

The purpose of the caps is to change the capacity of the flush... ie the caps on you use more water. The caps off you use less water.

Kashkai

Thanks for that. Any idea why the flush is confined to the back of the bowl ie the water won't flow down the front of sides of the bowl

Joey the lips

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Thanks for that. Any idea why the flush is confined to the back of the bowl ie the water won't flow down the front of sides of the bowl

I would say it never has and this is because its cheap chinese sh1t...Sorry. Unless it did already and its just lime has blocked the holes. Either lime or the blu loo.

Its one of the reasons top flush gets negative publicity and tbh its unwarrented as its not the mechanism but either the way its made or the user.

Kashkai

The loo is only a couple of years old and wasn't used regularly until about 6 months ago when my daughter moved into the adjoining bedroom so I doubt it's limescale. I've never used the "blu loo tablets" as I know they can gum up the works.

The loo is stamped with the Shires brand but I suppose that doesn't preclude it from coming from a Chinese factory. It's bloody annoying wasting an hour fitting a new syphon, removing the bowl to clear old silicone from it and refitting it to get just a fifty per cent improvement. This poor flush is also causing blockages in an AJ outside as the poor water flow is not carrying the loo paper to the septic tank.

Getting a replacement bowl seems like a lot of bother but might be the only option now.

gar120

Joey the lips wrote: »

Its one of the reasons top flush gets negative publicity and tbh its unwarrented as its not the mechanism but either the way its made or the user.

or the hack plumber that made a f**k up installing it

Joey the lips

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

The loo is only a couple of years old and wasn't used regularly until about 6 months ago when my daughter moved into the adjoining bedroom so I doubt it's limescale. I've never used the "blu loo tablets" as I know they can gum up the works.

The loo is stamped with the Shires brand but I suppose that doesn't preclude it from coming from a Chinese factory. It's bloody annoying wasting an hour fitting a new syphon, removing the bowl to clear old silicone from it and refitting it to get just a fifty per cent improvement. This poor flush is also causing blockages in an AJ outside as the poor water flow is not carrying the loo paper to the septic tank.

Getting a replacement bowl seems like a lot of bother but might be the only option now.

The problem with that dave is most of them are 3 and 6 ltr so you wont improve much. Have you checked that the water inlet valve is adjusted to allow the water rise to its highest before it falls back into the bowl....

Kashkai

Joey the lips wrote: »

The problem with that dave is most of them are 3 and 6 ltr so you wont improve much. Have you checked that the water inlet valve is adjusted to allow the water rise to its highest before it falls back into the bowl....

Yeah there is a high water mark at the back of the cistern and the water comes up to that level alright. Guess I'm stuck with this poorly functioing loo.

Kashkai

gar120 wrote: »

or the hack plumber that made a f**k up installing it

I agree as he was supposed to install a dual flush loo like we have in the other bathrooms but the eejit put the waste pipe in the floor too far away from the wall and so the dual flush wouldn't work as the waste pipe wouldn't meet up with the pipe in the floor (or else we'd have had a cistern four inches from the wall. That's why he installed the loo we have trouble with as this one meets up with the waste pipe in the floor. Like I said, he was a complete eejit.

gar120

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

I agree as he was supposed to install a dual flush loo like we have in the other bathrooms but the eejit put the waste pipe in the floor too far away from the wall and so the dual flush wouldn't work as the waste pipe wouldn't meet up with the pipe in the floor (or else we'd have had a cistern four inches from the wall. That's why he installed the loo we have trouble with as this one meets up with the waste pipe in the floor. Like I said, he was a complete eejit.

yeah a lot of cowboy plumbers out there that don't have a clue thats the problem.
is it a close/coupled wc or a low/level?

Joey the lips

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Yeah there is a high water mark at the back of the cistern and the water comes up to that level alright. Guess I'm stuck with this poorly functioing loo.

If your cistern is up to the high water mark then I doubt that it is operating under capacity just not operating right. If toilet roll is gathering its either too good a quality or there is a run off problem.

Kashkai

gar120 wrote: »

yeah a lot of cowboy plumbers out there that don't have a clue thats the problem.
is it a close/coupled wc or a low/level?

It's a low level loo though it should have been a close coupled.

Kashkai

Joey the lips wrote: »

If your cistern is up to the high water mark then I doubt that it is operating under capacity just not operating right. If toilet roll is gathering its either too good a quality or there is a run off problem.

It's not operating right even after I cleared the internal holes of silicone, the water still empties down the back if the bowl. There's no flow at the sides or front.

I checked the run off by emptying a bucket if water striaghr into the bowl and it flushed away a build up of loo paper in the underfloor waste pipe and in the AJ si I'm fairly certain my problem is that this loo doesn't have enough "oomph!!". Btw, the other loos in the house work ok but they're dual flush models.

Joey the lips

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

It's not operating right even after I cleared the internal holes of silicone, the water still empties down the back if the bowl. There's no flow at the sides or front.

If its low level and not running around its a faulty pan. Low level because of that hight aspect actually usually works a bit better. The beauty is you only need a new low level pan not an entire toilet.

Kashkai

Joey the lips wrote: »

If its low level and not running around its a faulty pan. Low level because of that hight aspect actually usually works a bit better. The beauty is you only need a new low level pan not an entire toilet.

How much approx for a new bowl? I'll have to change it cause it'll only annoy me

Joey the lips

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

How much approx for a new bowl? I'll have to change it cause it'll only annoy me

Honestly dave I dont know( about 60 euro) but go to somewhere like chadwicks and get a rubber bung for the cistern syphon pipe and you might need a new pan connector at the back.

dunsandin

If the toilet is not flushing in this manner, the bowl is clogged and you can do what you like with the syphon and it wont flush correctly. Take yourself along to Heatmerchants or Sammons or some other commercial grade plumbing supplier and buy a new jacks. Get a new bowl,cistern,syphon kit, and a new multi wick and change the lot. While you're at it, fit a stop valve onto the pipe feeding the cistern if you dont have one already. Use a Thin smear of Tec7 on all the wet connections, use nice new screws to hold the cistern and bowl down, and when your finished fitting it you will have a lovely jacks to last you years-oh and get a new toilet seat to put the finishing touches to it.