The near death experience

Transpersonal

Hi
I am new to the forum. I am living in Blanchardstown, Dublin <snip>.

I am currently studying for a Master's Degree in Transpersonal Psychology, which did involve some study of parapsychology.

I am doing a thesis on the affect of near death experiences on Irish people. I don't mean where you narrowly miss a car and so were "near death". I am talking about the tunnel, bright light, meeting spirits and being told to go back, sort of thing.


I am desperately seeking subjects. So , if you know anyone who had such an experience and is willing to take part in a study, where identity is protected, please let me know.

Or perhaps you would just like to chat about the phenomenon here. What do you think?

Dave!

Hi OP,

Maybe you'd be interested in part of this article (scroll down to the section 'Near Death Experiences and Altered States of Consciousness'), which describes attempts to recreate near death experiences in the lab.

Here's the important section:

Near Death Experiences and Altered States of Consciousness

...

Neuroscientist Michael Persinger, in his laboratory at Laurentian University in Sudbury, Canada, for example, can induce all of these experiences in subjects by subjecting their temporal lobes to patterns of magnetic fields. I tried it and had a mild out-of-body experience.

Similarly, the September 19, 2002 issue of Nature, reported that the Swiss neuroscientist Olaf Blanke and his colleagues discovered that they could bring about out-of-body experiences (OBEs) through electrical stimulation of the right angular gyrus in the temporal lobe of a 43-year old woman suffering from severe epileptic seizures. In initial mild stimulations she reported “sinking into the bed” or “falling from a height.” More intense stimulation led her to “see myself lying in bed, from above, but I only see my legs and lower trunk.” Another stimulation induced “an instantaneous feeling of ‘lightness’ and ‘floating’ about two meters above the bed, close to the ceiling.”

In a related study reported in the 2001 book Why God Won’t Go Away, researchers Andrew Newberg and Eugene D’Aquili found that when Buddhist monks meditate and Franciscan nuns pray their brain scans indicate strikingly low activity in the posterior superior parietal lobe, a region of the brain the authors have dubbed the Orientation Association Area (OAA), whose job it is to orient the body in physical space (people with damage to this area have a difficult time negotiating their way around a house). When the OAA is booted up and running smoothly there is a sharp distinction between self and non-self. When OAA is in sleep mode — as in deep meditation and prayer — that division breaks down, leading to a blurring of the lines between reality and fantasy, between feeling in body and out of body. Perhaps this is what happens to monks who experience a sense of oneness with the universe, or with nuns who feel the presence of God, or with alien abductees floating out of their beds up to the mother ship.

Sometimes trauma can trigger such experiences. The December 2001 issue of Lancet published a Dutch study in which of 344 cardiac patients resuscitated from clinical death, 12 percent reported near-death experiences (NDEs), where they floated above their bodies and saw a light at the end of a tunnel. Some even described speaking to dead relatives.

The general explanation for all of these phenomena is that since our normal experience is of stimuli coming into the brain from the outside, when a part of the brain abnormally generates these illusions, another part of the brain interprets them as external events. Hence, the abnormal is thought to be the paranormal. In reality, it is just brain chemistry.

More specifically, NDEs and OBEs have biochemical correlates. We know, for example, that the hallucination of flying is triggered by atropine and other belladonna alkaloids, some of which are found in mandrake or jimson weed and were used by European witches and American Indian shamans. OBEs are easily induced by dissociative anesthetics such as the ketamines. DMT (dimethyl-tryptamine) causes the feeling of the world enlarging or shrinking. MDA (methylenedioxyamphetamine) stimulates the feeling of age regression where things we have long forgotten are brought back to memory. And, of course, LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide) triggers visual and auditory hallucinations and gives a feeling of oneness with the cosmos, among other effects. The fact that there are receptor sites in the brain for such artificially processed chemicals, means that there are naturally produced chemicals in the brain which, under certain conditions (the stress of trauma or an accident, for example) can induce any or all of the feelings typically described in a NDE. Thus, NDEs and OBEs are forms of wild “trips” induced by the extreme trauma of almost dying.

Psychologist and paranormal researcher Susan Blackmore has taken the hallucination hypothesis one step further by demonstrating why different people would experience similar effects, such as the tunnel. The visual cortex on the back of the brain is where information from the retina is processed. Hallucinogenic drugs and lack of oxygen to the brain (such as sometimes occurs near death) can interfere with the normal rate of firing by nerve cells in this area. When this occurs, “stripes” of neuronal activity move across the visual cortex, which is interpreted by the brain as concentric rings or spirals. These spirals may be “seen” as a tunnel. Similarly, in the OBE the experience of visualizing things from above is actually just an extension of a normal process we all do called “decentering” — picture yourself sitting on the beach or climbing a mountain and it will usually be from above looking down.

These studies are evidence that mind and brain are one. All experience is mediated by the brain. Large brain areas like the cortex coordinate imputes from smaller brain areas such as the temporal lobes, which themselves collate neural events from still smaller brain modules like the angular gyrus. This reduction continues all the way down to the single neuron level, where highly-selective neurons, sometimes described as “grandmother” neurons, fire only when subjects see someone they know. Caltech neuroscientists Christof Koch and Gabriel Kreiman, in conjunction with UCLA neurosurgeon Itzhak Fried, have even found a single neuron that fires when the subject is shown a photograph of Bill Clinton. The Monica neuron must be closely connected.

The search for the neural correlates of consciousness begin at this fundamental level, and then we ratchet up from there, as we look for emergent properties of complex systems of thought that arise from these simpler systems of neuronal connections. Of course, we are not aware of the workings of our own electrochemical systems. What we actually experience is what philosophers call qualia, or subjective states of thoughts and feelings that arise from a concatenation of neural events. But eventually even the grand mystery of consciousness will be solved by the penetrating tools of science.

This is the fate of the paranormal and the supernatural — to be subsumed into the normal and the natural. In fact, there is no paranormal or supernatural; there is only the normal and the natural … and mysteries yet to be explained.

Bit more info on a couple of the experiments here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

and here

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12531

This looks like a good article too, relating to oxygen deprivation and near-death experiences:

It appears that, rather than any spiritual journey or other world phenomenon, NDEs may be best understood by examining human physiology, neurochemistry, and psychology. At this time, there is strong research evidence to indicate that many of the symptoms of NDEs may be caused by anoxia, or a lack of oxygen to the brain. In the human visual system, for example, neurons (brain cells) deprived of oxygen will start to fire out of control. Since the majority of the cells in our visual cortex (the portion of the brain where visual information is processed) respond to stimulation in the central visual field, the result is a white spot in the center with fewer cells firing out of control in the periphery. As oxygen deprivation continues, the white spot grows and the sensation of moving through a tunnel toward a white light is produced. Similarly, it is possible that the life review process is a result of depriving the temporal lobes of oxygen. When the temporal lobes of the brain, an area largely involved in memory production, are deprived of oxygen, neurotransmitters are released and massive electrical activity ensues. In laboratory research, when people's temporal lobes are stimulated with electrodes, many subjects experience the reliving of memories, out of body experiences, and even the sensation of moving through a tunnel toward a light. Oxygen deprivation can also affect the limbic system, which contains the seat of emotions in the brain. The intensely pleasurable feelings of love and well-being that accompany moving toward the light may therefore be a consequence of increased activity in the limbic system.

Any thoughts on these anyone?

Good luck with the thesis Transpersonal!

If you don't mind me asking, where in Dublin can one study transpersonal psychology? I've never heard of it before today!

Transpersonal

Hi Dave!

Lots of interesting information, thanks.

I don't know of any accredited courses in Ireland in transpersonal psychology. I am studying as a distance learner in Liverpool John Moores University. It is available both by attending (I know an Irishman who did) or 100% online.

If you are interested, here's the link:
http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/nsp/ctp.htm

Transpersonal

hiorta

Hi transpersonal. I'm a genetic Paddy (countless generations from Donegal) but not a cultural one.
I've been looking into such matters for many years and have had a NDE via the operating table some years ago, which might be of some use to you.

I doubt whether it is posible to isolate the physical nationality from the deeper experience, indeed the physical side of us is subservient to the Soul, it seems.

You will find many such experiences at: www.nderf.org.

Transpersonal

Thanks, Hiorta

I have pm'ed you looking to progress this.
I am interested in how an NDE affects religious affiliation, eg allegiance to Catholicism.

Yes, that is an excellent site.

hiorta

In my case, I had discarded Catholicism - indeed Christianity - many decades earlier, so the experience made no difference in those respects, although it did 'deepen' me in ways that seem to be more apparent to others.

studiorat

Also look into "ICU psychosis" or "ICU syndrome", be warned though it's grim.

Also here's a short article on REM states intruding into wakefulness.
http://journals.lww.com/neurotodayonline/Fulltext/2006/04040/New_Paper_Explains__Near_Death_Experiences__in.8.aspx

Transpersonal

Yes, there is plenty of evidence against any spiritual or transpersonal interpretations of NDEs
As Filippo says however:
"Reports That Provide Credibility for the Transpersonal Theory of the NDE
1. Consistent reports of out-of-body experiences of individuals who sense that they separate from their physical body during the near-death experience and can observe their body and surroundings from a detached position.

2. The consistent reports of near-death experiences of children that are similar to those experiences reported by adults.

3. The attitudinal and personality changes of the near-death experiencers following heir experience (Moody, 1988; Morse, 1990; Ring, 1980, 1985)."
(http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles013.html)

I would add to that the work of Kenneth Ring:
Vicki Umipeg, a forty-five year old blind woman, was just one of the more than thirty persons that Dr. Ken Ring and Sharon Cooper interviewed at length during a two-year study just completed concerning near-death experiences of the blind. The results of their study appear in their newest book Mindsight.

You can see an interview with Vicki at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWh-exMn8IY

Dave!

Transpersonal wrote: »

Yes, there is plenty of evidence against any spiritual or transpersonal interpretations of NDEs
As Filippo says however:
"Reports That Provide Credibility for the Transpersonal Theory of the NDE
1. Consistent reports of out-of-body experiences of individuals who sense that they separate from their physical body during the near-death experience and can observe their body and surroundings from a detached position.

That's not good evidence for it though is it? If it's the brain (as appears to be the case) that produces the feeling of leaving the body, then of course people will report that this is what they experience! Consistent reports of this simply tell us that NDE's are often accompanied by out of body experiences, it doesn't tell us about what causes it. But other experiments suggest that trauma, oxygen depravation, etc., are likely to cause it.

Transpersonal wrote: »

2. The consistent reports of near-death experiences of children that are similar to those experiences reported by adults.

Again not particularly compelling. If children are undergoing the same things (oxygen depravation, etc), then why wouldn't they experience the same effect (out of body experience, seeing white light)?

Transpersonal wrote: »

3. The attitudinal and personality changes of the near-death experiencers following heir experience (Moody, 1988; Morse, 1990; Ring, 1980, 1985)."
(http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles013.html)

That's unsurprising though isn't it? If you know you nearly died, particularly if you afford some transcendental significance to it, then it's quite likely that you'll change your attitude or that your personality will change. Makes sense to me!

Transpersonal wrote: »

I would add to that the work of Kenneth Ring:
Vicki Umipeg, a forty-five year old blind woman, was just one of the more than thirty persons that Dr. Ken Ring and Sharon Cooper interviewed at length during a two-year study just completed concerning near-death experiences of the blind. The results of their study appear in their newest book Mindsight.

You can see an interview with Vicki at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWh-exMn8IY

Can't watch this at the moment unfortunately

Dave!

Here's a new post (about NDE's) on a blog I read. Interesting stuff.

Chriskavo

Transpersonal wrote: »

Hi Dave!

Lots of interesting information, thanks.

I don't know of any accredited courses in Ireland in transpersonal psychology. I am studying as a distance learner in Liverpool John Moores University. It is available both by attending (I know an Irishman who did) or 100% online.

If you are interested, here's the link:
http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/nsp/ctp.htm

Transpersonal

Here is a video you should watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

hiorta

From the blog: A last gasp of activity before the void.

Nothing quite so balanced as gross assumption.

Dave!

Here's a post of mine from the Paranormal forum re: Pam Reynolds:

Just had a bit of a google about this Pam Reynolds business, and found a rather comprehensive article that goes through it point by point:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html#pam

A few key quotes:

But anyone who gives Sabom's chapters on the case more than a cursory look will see two glaring errors in the descriptions above. First, it is quite clear that Pam did not have her NDE during any period of flat EEG.[16] Indeed, she was as far as a patient undergoing her operation could possibly be from clinical death when her OBE began.[17] Second, she had no cerebral cortical activity for no longer than roughly half an hour.

Of course, the issue of whether Pam was "really" dead within standstill is an extraordinarily misleading red herring in this context. And it is blatantly irresponsible for Sabom to explicitly state that her NDE occurred "while in this state." As Sabom's own account reveals, her standstill condition had absolutely nothing to do with the time when we know that her near-death OBE began: A full two hours and five minutes before the medical staff even began to cool her blood, during perfectly normal body temperature![19] (Again, see Figure 1.)

Second, there is her description of the bone saw. But the very observation that provides the greatest potential for supporting the notion that she actually left her body during her OBE actually tends to count against that hypothesis. As Sabom recounts,

Pam's description of the bone saw having a "groove at the top where the saw appeared to go into the handle" was a bit puzzling.... [T]he end of the bone saw has an overhanging edge that [viewed sideways] looks somewhat like a groove. However, it was not located "where the saw appeared to go into the handle" but at the other end.

Why had this apparent discrepancy arisen in Pam's description? Of course, the first explanation is that she did not "see" the saw at all, but was describing it from her own best guess of what it would look and sound like (187).

Precisely! Except that, of course, Pam didn't need to guess what the bone saw sounded like, since she probably heard it as anesthesia failed. An out-of-body discrepancy within Pam's NDE prima facie implies the operation of normal perception and imagination within an altered state of consciousness. Indeed, this explanation is so straightforward that Sabom considers it before all others. And it is telling that the one visual observation that Pam (almost) could not have known about other than by leaving her body was the very detail that was not accurate.

Can't say I've looked into it in any great depth, but there's alot of good points made in the article.

Chriskavo

Dave! wrote: »

Here's a post of mine from the Paranormal forum re: Pam Reynolds:

Precisely - the attempted debunking of the bone saw is ludicrous. She had her eyes taped shut and had clicking pads put into her ears as part of the procedure. The bone saw she described being shaped like a toothbrush was very accurate. That guy is just clasping at straws i'm afraid.