Dental Treatment in E Europe

Hillmanhunter1

Hi
I need a lot of dental work done, root canal treatment, crowns, bridges and probably implants. In the current environment I can't afford to spend the price of a mid-sized car on having that work done in Ireland. I'm looking for recommendations please, by private message preferably, from people who have had extensive work done in Hungary, Macedonia or anywhere else.
Thanks

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Use the search function, several threads of total disasters in eastern europe.

If you cant afford to get it done properly (getting complex dental work while on a two week holiday is not it being done properly ever) try the dublin dental hospital or cork hospital, or get things stabilized until you can afford it, don't rush off to the cheapest place, cause unlike buying a car which is the same everywhere, dental work is related to the skill of the dentist, the time spent planning and carrying out treatment and the quality of the laboratory work. And unlike a mid sized car quality dental work should last for a decade or more with only routine maintenance.

If you are looking for reassurance that its the correct thing to do, you wont like most of the replies here I am afraid.

day dreamer

Hi there

the first thing I would do is go to a dentist here and find out exactly what it is you need to have done and how much it will cost.

The issue with going abroad is that you are far away if you have any problems and you have to get a lot of the work done in a short period of time. Doing a lot of complex dentistry in a weeks visit to say Budapest, is not a good idea as many treatments take time to settle and for things like root canal treatments to heal up and gum healing to take place.

The work may be done abroad to the highest standards but even then problems can arise and you are too far away to get anything done. You may think that you will save a lot of money but from my experience in the long run many patients end up sopending a lot more having things corrected.

georgieporgy

day dreamer, i know you are trying to be impartial and i agree with your comments, but i think in this discussion we have to be more forceful and state clearly that dental work in eastern europe is generally of a very poor standard. ( I have seen lots and have never seen anything acceptable).

i wouldn't mind so much if they limited their heroic makeovers to badly broken down dentitions where their efforts would be an improvement on the patient's previous condition, but they very often ruin nice teeth in their big swindle of offering huge savings to the gullible.

Hillmanhunter1

Thanks to all who have replied.

Fitzgeme, georgieporgy, are you both dentists working in Ireland? I ask because looking back over the history of the posts that both of you have made there's a lot of stuff about dentistry. Clearly you are both very well informed, but are you disinterested?

From what I can tell the cost of the work that I need done would be around €20k in Ireland. I'm a family man, and I could never envisage a situation where I would put my needs ahead of those of my family to the extent that I would spend that amount of money on myself. I will have this work done abroad, and at a fraction of the cost. I recognise that there are risks involved, and that is why I am looking for (disinterested) recommendations and advice.

Big_G

You generally won't find completely impartial advice here. Anybody who comments generally has a vested interest one way or the other. Also, the non-dentists who post about succesful treatment aren't really qualified to make that decision in many cases. Their treatment is working for them now, what about in 6 months, or a year? What about possible unnecessary treatments?
Don't make the decision to go unless fully informed.

A treatment plan that costs 20 grand is in the region of specialist treatment plans and is generally beyond the expertise of the average general dentist in Ireland. And therefore the same follows for Hungary and other Eastern European countries.

This is not a car you are buying. It is your mouth, your dentition. Your decision, I suppose. I drive a 99 car and have braces.

lpool2k05

So where do people from budapest get their teeth fixed??All the foreigners in my job have perfect teeth and their from eastern europe..Maybe they come to dublin to pay premium prices

LRC

Hi,

I personally know of three people who went over to Budapest for extensive treatment, one of them being my mum. She found the experience and dental work to be very positive and that's four years on and would have no hesitation in going back. She flew over by herself, was met and picked up at the airport, brought to the hotel, where there was a number of other Irish people doing the same thing, all with positive stories to tell. Obviously there can always be exceptions and negative experiences but from the three people I personnally know it's all good. There's dental tour specialist operating from Ireland so maybe look into them? Hope that's of some help.

day dreamer

Hi

We are not talking here about routine dental work. 20K means a very big overhaul with crowns/ bridges/ implants

There are not many dentists in Ireland who I would go to do have that done because such work is highly complicatd and specialised. The Dublin Dental Hospital which would be impartial, did a study last year and found almost 40% of those who went abroad for big dental jobs needed remedial work for below standard work.

Many go abroad and have no problems but many are over-treated and have long lasting problems. This is the health and appearance of your teeth and mouth and at stake and I wouldnt be taking chances abroad.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Yes I am a dentist, and I see an awful lot of eastern European dental work in need of remedial action referred to me buy other dentists. Its not that irish dental work does not go bad from time to time, it that this type of extensive work I much more complex to fix and there is more in your mouth to fix.

georgieporgy

LRC wrote: »

Hi,

I personally know of three people who went over to Budapest for extensive treatment, one of them being my mum. She found the experience and dental work to be very positive and that's four years on and would have no hesitation in going back. She flew over by herself, was met and picked up at the airport, brought to the hotel, where there was a number of other Irish people doing the same thing, all with positive stories to tell. Obviously there can always be exceptions and negative experiences but from the three people I personnally know it's all good. There's dental tour specialist operating from Ireland so maybe look into them? Hope that's of some help.

LRC please ask your friends if they can floss between their new teeth because generally the eastern european dentists join groups of crowns together.

georgieporgy

lpool2k05 wrote: »

So where do people from budapest get their teeth fixed??All the foreigners in my job have perfect teeth and their from eastern europe..Maybe they come to dublin to pay premium prices

We are not saying their teeth are bad. it's their dental work that's bad.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Most eastern European people I see only have a few crowns and the like, cause they find the dental work relatively expensive when they live and work in that country just like we do.

Thus unlike the dental tourist, who comes brandishing large amounts of money (by that countries standards) and end up with literally every tooth in their head crowned, joined together and root canal treated. There is a reason some clinics in eastern europe spend 10k a month on google adwords targets at ireland and the UK, they love to see your recessionesta euros coming and equally love to see you leaving on a plane afterwards.

Georgie do you have the links to the "disaster" threads ?????

Big_G

The only reasons that the dentists in this thread care about whether or not you go to eastern europe for dentistry are that that dentistry generally makes the profession look bad and remedial work is possibly the hardest work to do.

georgieporgy

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055628532&highlight=dentist+disaster+budapest

here is one one report from someone who wishes she had been forewarned

Chriskavo

I got crown work done on my front teeth in Budapest. I went for zirconium-oxide which is metal free and very natural looking. I can tell you that I am genuinely very happy with my results and this is now 5 months later. I have had no problems since (touch wood) and many people have complimented me on my teeth. I received a total of 10 crowns 4 for the front and the other 2 were 3 bridge. My teeth had been extensively damaged from an accident in my youth and had always been something I wanted to remedy. I feel much more confident now and find I dont self consciously conceal my smile like I used to. The only negative I had was my experience in Budapest - the people are very rude and unfriendly, other than that it was great. Altogether it cost me 2,890 EUR for the work compared to 7,500-8,000 in Ireland. thats not to say Irish dentists are bad in fact they are excellent and have nothing but positive things to say about all mt previous experiences with Irish dentists. Just that the price was too prohibitive for me. I am sure that their have been some cases of people getting bad jobs done but I made sure that I did proper research before I went over as well as getting consultations. I cut out the middle man and got in contact with a dental clinic in Budapest. I e mailed HQ photo of my x-ray to them and type of work I wanted done along with the type of material used in the crowns. They rang back, gave me an estimate and after I agreed a date booked me a hotel at discount price. On arrival, I was picked up by their own taxi man without charge and whisked back to the hotel. The following day I was picked up from my hotel to dentist where all the necessary prep work was done. A couple of days later my crowns were ready and fitted. I stayed a couple of more days as a precaution before heading back to Ireland. I was also given a guarantee and they filled out a med 2 form for me so I could claim tax back. Make sure you bring a med 2 form with you by the way.I spent a total of one week in Budapest, the hotel was cheap, and so is the food and drink in general. You will still be saving a bomb and you can have the option of renting an apartment and bringing some friends over on a cheap holiday. All in all - it was all good as far as I was concerned. If you would like to PM me , I will give you name of dentist and you can view the website for yourself which includes video testimonials by people from Ireland and Britain. Hope this helps.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Thanks ChrisKAVO glad you had a good experience. Its interesting cause Kavo are the worlds biggest supplier of dental equipment

Chriskavo

Remi Blue Sunstroke wrote: »

Thanks ChrisKAVO glad you had a good experience. Its interesting cause Kavo are the worlds biggest supplier of dental equipment

LOL! I didn't know that, I use that as a shortened version of Kavanagh.

I hope I get paid for given them free advertising!!

Hillmanhunter1

While I appreciate your contributions Fitzgeme, and I don't doubt your bona fides, the negative views that have been expressed in relation to E Europe tend to be anecdotal in nature, and tend to come from people who openly acknowledge that they are not disinterested.

Are there any empirical and independent studies available that compare the quality of E European dentistry (and specifically implantology) with W European standards?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

6000 patients were treated by Irish dentists for problems associated with dental tourism in 2009.

A study in the Dublin Dental Hospital found that only 15% of the dental tourism treatment seen there was of a satisfactory standard.

Another study here http://www.britannica.com/bps/additionalcontent/18/28162352/Have-teeth-will-travel-dental-tourism--informing-the-public

and another here

http://www.dentist.ie/resources/news/showarticle.jsp?id=823

I suppose your looking for some positive feedback also, I will leave it there but you have been warned.......

Hillmanhunter1

Thanks Fitzgeme, but this is not impartial advice.

The Taxi Unions have reports that suggest that, as a consumer, its in my best interest to restrict access to new taxi plates, and furniture retailers have reports that purport to show that the arrival of IKEA will not be good for me. Every profession engages in what I might call soft restrictive practices, and this always makes it difficult for the consumer to form a view on whether the reports commissioned by them are impartial or are supportive of the objectives of the profession (in most cases this means supporting the objectives of limiting the effects of competition and supporting floor prices, though within the parameters of the law).

This is why I asked if there were any impartial reports out there. Over the last 30 mins or so I've been looking over the Competition Authority's report on dental services in Ireland - fairly damning stuff, and before you shoot the messenger, I've read more Competition Authority reports than you could shake a stick at, their work is generally of impeccable quality.

They don't beat about the bush - the opening comments of the report are are:
1. Competition in dental services is restricted and discouraged by an outdated system of regulation for dentists and related professions. The number of dentists and orthodontists being trained in Ireland has not kept pace with the growing demand for dental services. Consumers in Ireland do not have the benefits of the competition between dentists and a range of other qualified oral health professions that exists in other countries.
2. As a result, the prices consumers pay for dental services are not as competitive as they could be and consumers do not have the full range of information and options available to them to purchase appropriate dental services for their needs.

This is why this forum exists!

BTW, the figure of "6000 patients were treated by Irish dentists for problems associated with dental tourism in 2009" seems extraordinarily high. What is the provenance of this figure and what does "problems associated with dental tourism" mean? For the purpose of comparison, how many patients who had treatment in Ireland required subsequent treatment for problems arising from that treatment? What percentage of each cohort required treatment for problems?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Okey dokey, well best of luck with your decision, make the decision for yourself, its your health and your mouth, you know my views, the views of the IDA and here are the views of the GDC in the UK http://www.gdc-uk.org/NR/rdonlyres/BA5A3BC8-D751-4FB1-8D79-5A0ABBD9F491/82885/GoingabroadforyourdentalcareFINAL.pdf and the American Dental Association http://www.ada.org/3029.aspx?currentTab=1

All the best

fitzgeme

Hillmanhunter1

Thanks for the links to the ADA, and in particular to the General Dental Council's leaflet and the advice therein on questions to ask.

The rest of your post, specifically the "make the decision for yourself, its your health and your mouth" stuff is obviously not so helpful!

Am I to assume that you are going to ignore my questions on the provenance and comparative merits of the figures you quoted?

mdebets

I have read this discussion about going to a dentist in Eastern Europe or Ireland numerous times here and just wanted to give my own 2c.

I know the debate from the other side around. I'm a German living in Ireland and I think I'm one of the very few Germans i know here, who goes to a dentist in Ireland (also for major work, got some root-canals and crowns done in the last few years). Most of the Germans I know fly home to see a dentist in Germany, because they think dentists in Ireland are very bad and they don't trust them to do proper work (does this sound familiar?). I even heard of a German dentist with a practice in Ireland who does this, but this is just hearsay.

I personally think that the pro-Ireland side (or better the pro-country-where-you-live side) is correct, but uses the wrong argument.
There are over-all not more ore less good or bad dentists in Ireland, Germany or Eastern Europe (otherwise all Eastern European would need to run-around with wooden dentures, going by some of the comments here).
There are however other reasons, why it would be beneficial, to choose a local dentist.

1) how to find a good dentist. In Ireland, you either have already a dentist you know and who you know is good from experience (if you went to regular checks in the past) and whom you would trust if he refers you to a specialist. If you go to Eastern Europe, you most likely rely on advertisement or a few recommendations, which most likely are only from a few short visits, so you don't have a long track-record of this dentist (and remember, a good web-design doesn't make a good dentist)

2) you probably never going to see the dentist in Eastern Europe again, so have a higher chance that he might try to pass off sub-standard work to foreigners, who he knows he will most likely never see again. In Ireland, it's unlikely that a dentist that has treated you well for years suddenly gives you a sub-standard treatment or refers you to a college who does so.

3) you are less likely to leave a dental practice if you are not satisfied before the treatment, if you traveled to Eastern Europe, because you would have wasted a trip. If you are not satisfied that the dentist will do proper work, it's much easier to leave him, if you only drove 5mins to him from your home.

4) most people go for expensive work, which often takes several visits, but which they want to be compressed into a week, if they flew to Eastern Europe and can't return for repeat visits. That might not only be bad for the treatment, but would also be an indication that the dentist is not a good one, who would have refused to do it.

5) after-care is another problem. There is always the possibility that something goes wrong and some emergency after-care is needed. If the dentists is 3 hours flight away, you can't just pop down and visit him, but you have to go to another dentist near you (who also need to agree to work on the work of another dentists). This is never optimal, even if both dentists are very good, as they might have different approaches and the second one doesn't know the full history of the treatment.

Hillmanhunter1

Thanks mdebets

I have a first consultation in Dublin in a few days and your post has given me much food for thought in terms of the questions to ask. Appreciated.

Big_G

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Thanks for the links to the ADA, and in particular to the General Dental Council's leaflet and the advice therein on questions to ask.

The rest of your post, specifically the "make the decision for yourself, its your health and your mouth" stuff is obviously not so helpful!

Am I to assume that you are going to ignore my questions on the provenance and comparative merits of the figures you quoted?

First of all, what is it that you want from fitzgeme? He has told you his opinions on dental tourism. Do you want him to disagree with own opinions and tell you what you want to hear?

Second of all, I cannot comment on the provenance of the figures as I have not seen the study. But 6000 would be a comparitively small number if you take the estimated number of patients in Ireland that are treated every year by dentists, I would guess that it is in the millions.

As far as calling into question the impartiality of a study like this, it is damning members of our own profession, that is foreign dentists who do substandard work. And, in order for a study like this to be published in a peer reviewed journal, questions would have been asked about impartiality.

Big_G

Also, as far as the Competition Authority report goes, it neglects several important issues. Such as what may happen if there is a total application of free market economics to healthcare provision?

We already know what will happen, as dentistry is currently in competition with cheaper economies in eastern europe, and that has resulted in a decrease in the quality of care.

Look at any country where driving down costs is a primary concern in terms of provision of dentistry such as the UK, France and others and you will see that the result is shoddy dentistry.

As far as the competition authority goes, they don't understand that cost driven dentistry results in breaches of medical ethics (beneficience) because below a certain point, quality dentistry cannot be provided.

Dentistry is already being provided below cost on the medical card scheme, and it is only volume of treatments that can bring it back into profitability. This will result in a loss of quality. And the Competition Act prevents us negotiating with the government to change contractual terms. Hows that for competition?

georgieporgy

some examples of work seen in my practice. more later.

Big_G

If anyone wants a critique:
The first picture shows a root canal treatment that has not been completed properly, the access if off angle and the filling/obturation of the root doesn't go anywhere near length. This is a moderately difficult tooth to treat due to the curvature, but the treating dentist didn't refer, they just did the treatment badly and now the patient is left with a chronic infection. Cost of retreat minimum €1000 with a specialist. Then a post core crown after.

The second picture shows a badly angled implant that will be difficult if not impossible to get a crown onto. It looks like a blind monkey put it in. The crown shows a threaded post (not used anymore because the cause cracks to form). This one wont cause any cracks to form, because it is not even engaging the tooth! It is sitting in the root filling material which is just rubber. The "crown" on top looks like composite. Wonder how much the patient was charged. Tx plan, remove implant, remove "post-crown". Bone graft, new implant with specialist €4000-5000. New post core crown €750-1000.

edit: The second picture also shows that the implant has perforated either the floor of the nasal cavity or the maxillary sinus. And infection around the crown tooth. On second look, if the crown was removed, you might be able to get a crown onto the implant and then one into the bombed out tooth, but as it stands, probably not.

Nice.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

The burden of proof is on me I see rather than the Easter Europian dentists, And my "anecdotyl evidence" from 4 years of general practice and 7 years as a crown and bridge specialist / trainee is not acceptable.

The 6000 patients is from a questionare issued to irish dentists on behalf of the IDA. Its finding will be published later this year. The DDH study is published in a peer review journal.

The advice of making up you own mind is not intended as flippant and I am sorry if it came accross like that, it is however the best advice I can give you. Weigh up the options the advantages and disadvantages. I think from reading these forums you will a lot of information to help you, if your decision is already made and you are looking for reassurance ,as I posted in my first reply, you wont like some of the opinions here ( and it looks like you havent ).

Muti-thousand euro treatment plans are the relm of the dental specialist and are not to be entered into lightly. Remember all your funds will be gone if there are problems.

I do sincearly wish you the best in your treatment and hope you get a good jobs done (wherever that may be) that will look good, be comfortable and durable.

Oh and georgie I win.....full arch splinted bridge, fractured ceramic everywhere, TMJD, TSL, loss of OVD with compensation, looked dire, fistulas all over the place.

georgieporgy

grrrrr (;))

Chriskavo

Remi Blue Sunstroke wrote: »

Thanks ChrisKAVO glad you had a good experience. Its interesting cause Kavo are the worlds biggest supplier of dental equipment

Fitzgeme as a dentist can you tell me where I can get a night guard at a reasonable price?. I got a quote for 200EUR which I think is ridiculous. The guard I received from dentist in Budapest is only a basic rubber like mold compression of my teeth and is beginning to fray and tear.I did however recieve it at no extra cost. I suffer with Bruxism and need the guard to protect my teeth. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

day dreamer

1. Consumers in Ireland do not have the benefits of the competition between dentists and a range of other qualified oral health professions that exists in other countries.

I am not really sure what this means about a range of other oral health professions. In Ireland dental treatment is only provided by dentists and dentures can be supplied by clinical dental technicians. Hygienists can work under instruction of a dentist but not idependently.

In Europe it is the same with the exception of dental therapists that can work under the supervision of a dentist but not independently. I think, and am open to correction, that in the US a hygienist can operate on their own. So the same competition that exists here is in every other country.

With regard to dental and orthodontic training, we have had a recent thread about young dentists that cannot find work in this country and like many others are facing the plane (now only the boat) abroad. Dental schools take in the max every year through the CAO. Training dentists is very expensive and there are enough cutbacks in basic education to consider before building another unbecessary dental school.

2. As a result, the prices consumers pay for dental services are not as competitive as they could be and consumers do not have the full range of information and options available to them to purchase appropriate dental services for their needs.

The full range of information and options are there by visiting any dentist, phoning up or using the web. Patients are well able to go to Eastern Europe to find out costs and know about implants, veneers, root canal treatments and bridges.

Dentistry is not a business like mobile phone operators or airlines and cannot be treated as such by the Competition Authority

georgieporgy

more stuff. all these patients came to me complaining of "pain".

The Ukrainian case in particular looked very good on the outside.

georgieporgy

Big_G wrote: »

If anyone wants a critique:
The first picture shows a root canal treatment that has not been completed properly, the access if off angle and the filling/obturation of the root doesn't go anywhere near length. This is a moderately difficult tooth to treat due to the curvature, but the treating dentist didn't refer, they just did the treatment badly and now the patient is left with a chronic infection. Cost of retreat minimum €1000 with a specialist. Then a post core crown after.

The second picture shows a badly angled implant that will be difficult if not impossible to get a crown onto. It looks like a blind monkey put it in. The crown shows a threaded post (not used anymore because the cause cracks to form). This one wont cause any cracks to form, because it is not even engaging the tooth! It is sitting in the root filling material which is just rubber. The "crown" on top looks like composite. Wonder how much the patient was charged. Tx plan, remove implant, remove "post-crown". Bone graft, new implant with specialist €4000-5000. New post core crown €750-1000.

edit: The second picture also shows that the implant has perforated either the floor of the nasal cavity or the maxillary sinus. And infection around the crown tooth. On second look, if the crown was removed, you might be able to get a crown onto the implant and then one into the bombed out tooth, but as it stands, probably not.

Nice.

Thanks for your comments Big_G. and let me add extra info. The first root canal cost 1750 to retreat. note the presence of a post + the root was almost perforated.
The second case with the implant.... the implant was infected,loose and the patient in pain. I removed the implant . The crown wasn't causing any trouble but I included it as a nice example of what you can get if you shop around ( LOL + muffled snigger)

Lux23

georgieporgy wrote: »

Thanks for your comments Big_G. and let me add extra info. The first root canal cost 1750 to retreat. note the presence of a post + the root was almost perforated.
The second case with the implant.... the implant was infected,loose and the patient in pain. I removed the implant . The crown wasn't causing any trouble but I included it as a nice example of what you can get if you shop around ( LOL + muffled snigger)

But what's to say you wouldn't get treatment like this in Ireland. Personally I wouldn't go abroad for any treatment but I am sure there are bad dentists in Ireland just as there are good ones in Poland or Hungary. Are you saying they are so cheap because they only half do the work?

Big_G

Lux23 wrote: »

But what's to say you wouldn't get treatment like this in Ireland. Personally I wouldn't go abroad for any treatment but I am sure there are bad dentists in Ireland just as there are good ones in Poland or Hungary. Are you saying they are so cheap because they only half do the work?

This can happen in Ireland. I have seen dentistry from some Irish dentists like this. The point is, it is more likely to happen abroad, for the previously stated reasons.


The answer to the last question is yes.

Big_G

georgieporgy wrote: »

more stuff. all these patients came to me complaining of "pain".

The Ukrainian case in particular looked very good on the outside.

I particularly like the Ukraine job. Short posts in an untreated tooth. With a cantilever mesially. Nice. I'm surprised that he/she made it out of the clinic before it fell off.

georgieporgy

Lux23 wrote: »

But what's to say you wouldn't get treatment like this in Ireland. Personally I wouldn't go abroad for any treatment but I am sure there are bad dentists in Ireland just as there are good ones in Poland or Hungary. Are you saying they are so cheap because they only half do the work?

As it happens these were examples of actual work done abroad. It's possible you could get similar work done here, I just haven't seen any yet. But with the influx of Eastern european graduates into this country (there have been a few over the last few years) I guess it's only a matter of time till we see some of it originating here.

Crown preps can be done here using the same "techniques" as used back home, the lab work is shipped to Eastern Europe and voila!, a kerryman can look like a hungarian in one week or less. (please see the humour in this last statement. no racial slur is intended. it's the resulting smile i am trying to describe)

georgieporgy

Big_G wrote: »

I particularly like the Ukraine job. Short posts in an untreated tooth. With a cantilever mesially. Nice. I'm surprised that he/she made it out of the clinic before it fell off.

a root canal had been done on the tooth. you just can't see any root filling. The fit of the bridge was pretty good ( no overhangs) and his fillings looked good too. The trouble is he was in pain and I had no way of determining the cause. ( bad endo? fractured tooth? ) Redoing the endo would be a challange and if the tooth broke in the midst of treatment who would be blamed?
I opted for an occlusal adjustment and some solpadene and suggested he get it looked at next time he is passing through Ukraine.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Chriskavo wrote: »

Fitzgeme as a dentist can you tell me where I can get a night guard at a reasonable price?.
Chris

Chris, start a new thread on that topic and I have some advice, if a bit off topic here.

Hillmanhunter1

Big_G wrote: »

First of all, what is it that you want from fitzgeme?

Answer: Nothing!

My request, in the original post, was for "recommendations please, by private message preferably, from people who have had extensive work done in Hungary, Macedonia or anywhere else." That's all I want!

Fitzgeme, Big_G, georgieporgie, with respect, please stop clogging up this thread with unsolicited biased opinions, dubious statistics and partisan reports.

Chriskavo

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Answer: Nothing!

My request, in the original post, was for "recommendations please, by private message preferably, from people who have had extensive work done in Hungary, Macedonia or anywhere else." That's all I want!

Fitzgeme, Big_G, georgieporgie, with respect, please stop clogging up this thread with unsolicited biased opinions, dubious statistics and partisan reports.

Yeah, how about starting your own thread!!

georgieporgy

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Answer: Nothing!

My request, in the original post, was for "recommendations please, by private message preferably, from people who have had extensive work done in Hungary, Macedonia or anywhere else." That's all I want!

Fitzgeme, Big_G, georgieporgie, with respect, please stop clogging up this thread with unsolicited biased opinions, dubious statistics and partisan reports.

you asked for recommendations by pm and presumably you've received loads of those by now. no reason why we can't chat away on the public forum for the edification of other readers is there?
i wouldn't be surprised if you were a shill for a foreign clinic trying a new approach.

Hillmanhunter1

georgieporgy wrote: »

you asked for recommendations by pm and presumably you've received loads of those by now. no reason why we can't chat away on the public forum for the edification of other readers is there?
i wouldn't be surprised if you were a shill for a foreign clinic trying a new approach.

Post away to your hearts content, its a free country after all. It would be courteous to create your own trolling thread rather than hijack a thread seeking advice, but don't let that stop you!

It looks to me as if there is a group of posters on this thread who are intent on thwarting anyone seeking advice on dental treatment abroad, and that anyone who disagrees with this cabal is labelled as being foolish, or a shill. I'm no shill, and I consider myself to be nobody's fool, in fact in my own profession a fairly well developed set of BS antennae is vital, and I can tell you those antennae are fairly buzzing now. The posts from you, Fitzgeme and Big_G in this thread are straight out of propaganda 101:
"Propaganda is neutrally defined as a systematic form of purposeful persuasion that attempts to influence the emotions, attitudes, opinions, and actions of specified target audiences for ideological, political or commercial purposes through the controlled transmission of one-sided messages (which may or may not be factual) via mass and direct media channels."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

georgieporgy

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Post away to your hearts content, its a free country after all. It would be courteous to create your own trolling thread rather than hijack a thread seeking advice, but don't let that stop you!

It looks to me as if there is a group of posters on this thread who are intent on thwarting anyone seeking advice on dental treatment abroad, and that anyone who disagrees with this cabal is labelled as being foolish, or a shill. I'm no shill, and I consider myself to be nobody's fool, in fact in my own profession a fairly well developed set of BS antennae is vital, and I can tell you those antennae are fairly buzzing now. The posts from you, Fitzgeme and Big_G in this thread are straight out of propaganda 101:
"Propaganda is neutrally defined as a systematic form of purposeful persuasion that attempts to influence the emotions, attitudes, opinions, and actions of specified target audiences for ideological, political or commercial purposes through the controlled transmission of one-sided messages (which may or may not be factual) via mass and direct media channels."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

I accept you are not shilling if you say so.

"propaganda" is one of those terms like "antisemitism" that can be thrown at an opponent in a debate in order to win points. But as you point out in your quote from wikipedia above propaganda can mean the dissemination of factual information (GOOD), or false information
(= lies) (BAD).

which type of propaganda are you accusing us dentists of?

I also note you highlighted "for commercial purposes". Are you in fact saying that we dentists are disseminating false information for commercial purposes?

That would be considered unprofessional behaviour and we would be puting our licenses in jepordy. Foolish no?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Hillmanhunter1, go the Budapest, get the work done and report back. If it goes well you can tell everyone how you snagged a bargain over the covetous irish dentist. If it goes badly, you will probably end up referred to someone like me and end up paying my mortgage for a few months.

It actually works out better COMMERCIALLY for the irish dentist to have all these time bombs of mouths floating around. Over time they will start to explode and generate income for a practice greater than doing the original treatment.

Why do we warn you. why does every dental association in the world develop information about dental tourism, and put up with your scorn, suspicion and insults....because we actually do care about oral healthand think that some of the treatment the irish dental tourists receive is assault and mutilation of dentitions beyond a level found in any other patient population .Also the re treatment of bad dental work is costly to you, at a time when you probably have spent all your money on the original treatment, the case I posted above with the long fixed bridge ended up with a denture.....

Roll the dice

I will stop feeding the troll now.......

Big_G

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Post away to your hearts content, its a free country after all. It would be courteous to create your own trolling thread rather than hijack a thread seeking advice, but don't let that stop you!

It looks to me as if there is a group of posters on this thread who are intent on thwarting anyone seeking advice on dental treatment abroad, and that anyone who disagrees with this cabal is labelled as being foolish, or a shill. I'm no shill, and I consider myself to be nobody's fool, in fact in my own profession a fairly well developed set of BS antennae is vital, and I can tell you those antennae are fairly buzzing now. The posts from you, Fitzgeme and Big_G in this thread are straight out of propaganda 101:
"Propaganda is neutrally defined as a systematic form of purposeful persuasion that attempts to influence the emotions, attitudes, opinions, and actions of specified target audiences for ideological, political or commercial purposes through the controlled transmission of one-sided messages (which may or may not be factual) via mass and direct media channels."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Wow, you've managed to insult pretty much everyone in this thread. You've accused three posters of lying for personal gain. Just, wow. Thread locked.

tbh

an addition from a science Cmod and former mod of DI:

I made an addition to the charter which stated:

Please note: We do not allow requests for prıcıng/treatment detaıls abroad.

Simple reason is that the vast majority of responders to those requests were shills. I'm not a dentist and I've nothing to gain from either allowing or denying these requests. In this case, the only fault I could (but don't) find with the DI mods is that they didn't lock your thread straight away OP. Instead they tried to give you advice which you were free to take or reject as you see fit.

Unfortunately, this thread went the same way all similar threads do, so again, I would advise the mods, sadly, not to go the extra mile in future and simple lock similar threads. I think this will be to the detriment of the forum, because I appreciate that they advice they gave here was given with the best of intentions.

It's not really plausible that they were touting for business, given the fact that I know they already have busy practices, the fact that they don't know you OP and the fact that there are thousands of dentists in Ireland you could choose to go to.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

tbh. good points and good addition to the charter. Much appreciated.

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To anyone reading this the OP got his treatment done and it had to be replaced after 3 years and a lot of complications, he remained adamant that it was a great job. See here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526627,