Computer Science: TCD or UCD

TheStrandRoads

If one were thinking of taking on a Degree in Computer Science, and their options were Trinity College or UCD, filtering out location as a factor, but merely the level of tuition provided by either college...

What college would you choose? (...and why?)

Sid_Justice

The computer science courses are quite different in UCD and TCD, you should also be considering Computer Applications in DCU. The UCD course (as the college is) is much more modular, you have a lot more flexibility in the subjects you pick and avoid, this has it's advantages and disadvantages.

It also depends what you want at the end of the day? Do you want to be a programmer/developer?

Denerick

UCD

Do you want to be a success or not? That is the more pertinant question.

ronivek

UCD

I like the choices UCD give you with respect to maths modules. Other than that; I don't see very significant differences between the UCD offering and the TCD offering in terms of what is covered. It looks like you'll do a little more lower level stuff in TCD and a little more mathematics in UCD.

I can only really comment in terms of TCD however; so I'll give you a brief rundown of some questions you'd want to answer in the affirmative before choosing it:

1. Are you motivated to learn and work hard?
2. Are you willing to spend time reading and researching outside the explicit curriculum?
3. Do you have an interest in a very specific area of computer science and wish to spend your summers and/or free time doing some research?
4. Is there a particular research group in TCD where you can see yourself carving out a PhD thesis in four or five years?

If you've mostly answered no to the above; I'd suggest another course. Particularly with respect to motivation and desire to learn; you'll end up wasting four years scraping poor results only to find out you'll never get through a real interview afterwards. Whilst the same could possibly be said of some other courses; Computer Applications in DCU for example is fairly well structured and you'll have a lot more guidance in terms of your learning than you'll ever get in TCD. I wouldn't be surprised if the UCD course suffers from the same kind of issues as the TCD course does; but I'm not sure.

What is it you want to do after your degree anyway? How much do you know about computer science?

Fad

Tip: Ignore Denerick.

Anywho.......From experience, the CS Dept in UCD is poorly organised (But, this is coming from someone who doesnt do pure CS, and that seems to be the root of my problem).

I have been told, by someone who did CS in TCD, NOT to do CS in TCD......

Basically, UCD seems a lot more flexible. But both courses have serious issues.

Amirani

UCD

ronivek wrote: »

I can only really comment in terms of TCD however; so I'll give you a brief rundown of some questions you'd want to answer in the affirmative before choosing it:

1. Are you motivated to learn and work hard?
2. Are you willing to spend time reading and researching outside the explicit curriculum?
3. Do you have an interest in a very specific area of computer science and wish to spend your summers and/or free time doing some research?
4. Is there a particular research group in TCD where you can see yourself carving out a PhD thesis in four or five years?

I do MSISS so I have a bit of exposure to the CS curriculum in TCD. I'd endorse the points above. In order to succeed in the CS courses in TCD you have to be doing a lot of extra-curricular work and test yourself at levels above those being offered in exams and lectures. The fact that CS people split lectures with MSISS, Business and Computing etc. which aren't pure computing courses backs up the fact that the course standard offered isn't very high.

snappieT

UCD

niallsparky wrote: »

I do MSISS so I have a bit of exposure to the CS curriculum in TCD. I'd endorse the points above. In order to succeed in the CS courses in TCD you have to be doing a lot of extra-curricular work and test yourself at levels above those being offered in exams and lectures. The fact that CS people split lectures with MSISS, Business and Computing etc. which aren't pure computing courses backs up the fact that the course standard offered isn't very high.

To be fair, that happens in 1st year for a couple of modules, and 3rd year for one module (with MSISS at least).

OP: Good job on picking CS. I graduated TCD CS last year, and am doing a Masters in CS (also in TCD). Honestly, I couldn't recommend TCD CS more. Just be aware that you're not going in to be taught how to be a computer programmer. You're going in to the taught the theory and skills that will allow you to become a programmer (if you so wish). I was very unsure in first year (and even more so in second), but I realise now just how important the stuff I learned in those years is.

It is difficult, there's no denying that, but if you've a passion for the subject, you'll do just fine.

Regarding job prospects: I know 4 years is a long way away, but even in the current "climate", I have 3 good job offers on the table, and they're already improving their offers to try to get me. It is absolutely a buyer's market.

Any questions, fire away.

Mark200

snappieT wrote: »

To be fair, that happens in 1st year for a couple of modules, and 3rd year for one module (with MSISS at least).

They've mixed in MSISS into 2nd year programming too.

snappieT

UCD

Mark200 wrote: »

They've mixed in MSISS into 2nd year programming too.

OP: Go to UCD. ;-)

boblong

UCD

niallsparky wrote: »

The fact that CS people split lectures with MSISS, Business and Computing etc. which aren't pure computing courses backs up the fact that the course standard offered isn't very high.

That's not a fair comment. The programming lectures for the vast majority of CS students will simply be used as an introduction to concepts, and a chance to clear up any problems. The lectures we share with MSISS and B&C are a small part of our course. I've just finished first year and I would say that most CSers have a much higher standard of programming than necessary for "Introduction to Programming". This is (at least in part) because of the added advantage of studying Digital Logic (on our own) which is as close to theoretical CS as I've seen so far. Having Digital Logic in your repertoire does improve your programming, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it is also so interesting as to pique your interest in further areas of Computer Science.

The same also goes for the Mathematics module, as alot of the boolean algebra and things covered in first term are covered better and to a greater extent in DLD.

TLDR: in my admittedly short experience, the standard of the course is fairly high and you would be foolish to disregard it because we share less CS-ey modules with others.

EDIT: I almost forgot about Intro to Computing 2 (not shared). That taught me alot more about programming than the programming lectures.

stainluss

snappieT wrote: »

Regarding job prospects: I know 4 years is a long way away, but even in the current "climate", I have 3 good job offers on the table, and they're already improving their offers to try to get me. It is absolutely a buyer's market.

Any questions, fire away.

Do you think that you are looked on better by employers for doing CS in TCD rather than UCD, or UL/NUIG in my case?

ronivek

UCD

I'd be very surprised if you get filtered out before an interview or test based on where you did your primary degree (assuming it's a 4 year computer science degree in Ireland at any rate). However it's always helpful to graduate in the top x% (or top of your class) in terms of getting your foot in the door.

In general (for graduate software engineering roles at least) the interview tends to focus on what you do outside of college; alongside fundamental skills and concepts which should be common to pretty much any computer science degree. It's also beneficial to have some real world development experience during an internship of some description... so effectively your choice of university shouldn't be an issue.

However; I have heard it muttered that when there is a choice between two very similar candidates; there can be selection based on your primary degree and its perceived quality or indeed simply which modules you may have done towards the end of it... and in my experience the TCD degree is viewed quite favourably in that respect. I would suggest however that this would not be a regular occurrence, and indeed may depend entirely on the alma mater of the interviewers in question.

Amirani

UCD

boblong wrote: »

That's not a fair comment. The programming lectures for the vast majority of CS students will simply be used as an introduction to concepts, and a chance to clear up any problems. The lectures we share with MSISS and B&C are a small part of our course. I've just finished first year and I would say that most CSers have a much higher standard of programming than necessary for "Introduction to Programming". This is (at least in part) because of the added advantage of studying Digital Logic (on our own) which is as close to theoretical CS as I've seen so far. Having Digital Logic in your repertoire does improve your programming, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it is also so interesting as to pique your interest in further areas of Computer Science.

In that case, is "Introduction to Programming" not slightly unnecessary and quite boring for CS people? I just think that the standard of that course itself is quite low and not particularly challenging for CS people, same goes for the 2nd year courses shared with MSISS.

ronivek

UCD

niallsparky wrote: »

In that case, is "Introduction to Programming" not slightly unnecessary and quite boring for CS people? I just think that the standard of that course itself is quite low and not particularly challenging for CS people, same goes for the 2nd year courses shared with MSISS.

Although many people who go into computer science have had a decent bit of exposure to programming and various aspects of the discipline; the assumption has to be that you're coming in with no previous exposure or experience. Hence the introductory modules and questionable pacing at times. Plus there are the ever present issues of administration and cost (both in monetary and temporal terms).

p!nky19

UCD

niallsparky wrote: »

In that case, is "Introduction to Programming" not slightly unnecessary and quite boring for CS people? I just think that the standard of that course itself is quite low and not particularly challenging for CS people, same goes for the 2nd year courses shared with MSISS.

For *some* CS people, yes. However, if you're coming in with absolutely no programming experience whatsoever then a module like this is quite helpful. While it can be slow at times, the material is drilled into your head and that's the kind of guidance you need when you're inexperienced.

Rather than taking for granted that you know some stuff prior to the course (which many other modules do) this is taught from step 1, and while some may find it boring because of having experience it needs to be understood that not everyone has previous experience. The module is there to teach people how to program, not to brush up on skills they already have..

Dante

TBH, as said above, you'd probably be better off doing it in UCD due to the fact that a good few of the CS programming modules in Trinity are shared with MSISS and B&C, two courses that concentrate more on business and statistics, which as a result, brings down the standard of the programming lectures and assignments a fair bit. (This is coming from a B&C student btw)

B0X

I dunno, I have mates in UCD who's standard seems to be pretty much the same in programming, but they never did much on the hardware side.

p!nky19

UCD

Oh and in terms of the actual question (sorry got sidetracked!), I don't know much about the UCD course but from what I know the TCD one seems to be regarded as better. Having done the TCD one, though, I think in terms of wanting good programming experience maybe Computer Applications in DCU might suit better.

TCD requires a lot of background and extra curricular reading especially for inexperienced students, and some aspects of the course are a bit messed up. I loved it for the most part, but only because of being interested in most of the content, not because of how it was taught. The standard of lecturing is hugely varied which can hinder the experience of a good subject when not taught well. Although there were a few great lecturers too.

Just my two cents

Fad

B0X wrote: »

I dunno, I have mates in UCD who's standard seems to be pretty much the same in programming, but they never did much on the hardware side.

There is fúck all hardware in CS in UCD. Dunno what it's like in TCD.

Mongey

Fad wrote: »

There is fúck all hardware in CS in UCD. Dunno what it's like in TCD.

In first year, there's 2 lectures and one tutorial every week. There's also a two hour lab every fortnight.

electrogrimey

UCD

You're asking a forum full of people who chose TCD over UCD. What do you expect we'll say?

Maybe TCD.

xAnnex

UCD

p!nky19 wrote: »

TCD requires a lot of background and extra curricular reading especially for inexperienced students, and some aspects of the course are a bit messed up.

I don't like the sound of all that extra reading, and seems a lot of people are saying it, is it manageable? I don't know too much about Programming
Also, do yous find it annoying that there's no Work Experience during the course?

(90% sure I'll be putting down CS in TCD as my #1 in Feb '11 :P)

thebossanova

UCD

xAnnex wrote: »

I don't like the sound of all that extra reading, and seems a lot of people are saying it, is it manageable? I don't know too much about Programming
Also, do yous find it annoying that there's no Work Experience during the course?

(90% sure I'll be putting down CS in TCD as my #1 in Feb '11 :P)

Yes, it is manageable. Contact time varies from 15-22 hours at most, so plenty of time to do some extra work if you want to, or as a lot of people do play video games/download&watch animé/live in the DUCSS room.

On the work experience front, this is one downside as a fair few will agree, but only on the point that it's not organised for you(CS people are a lazy bunch after all!). There's plenty of opportunity to gain experience, whether it be as a summer intern in the department(internships posted around April/June every year) which can be quite good and well paid, or with a company like IBM/Microsoft/etc.. which you'd have to apply for yourself. Some sort of work experience is vital to have on your CV when you graduate. It shows initiative and interest in your area of work which employers love. The colleges Careers Advisory Service is excellent for posting jobs on a weekly basis on their website, from graduate jobs to summer work. Defo a good place to look at regularly.

This is all a long way away for you though! And I have no idea why I've decided to be so informative at 5am:pac:

xAnnex

UCD

thebossanova wrote: »

Yes, it is manageable. Contact time varies from 15-22 hours at most, so plenty of time to do some extra work if you want to, or as a lot of people do play video games/download&watch animé/live in the DUCSS room.

On the work experience front, this is one downside as a fair few will agree, but only on the point that it's not organised for you(CS people are a lazy bunch after all!). There's plenty of opportunity to gain experience, whether it be as a summer intern in the department(internships posted around April/June every year) which can be quite good and well paid, or with a company like IBM/Microsoft/etc.. which you'd have to apply for yourself. Some sort of work experience is vital to have on your CV when you graduate. It shows initiative and interest in your area of work which employers love. The colleges Careers Advisory Service is excellent for posting jobs on a weekly basis on their website, from graduate jobs to summer work. Defo a good place to look at regularly.

This is all a long way away for you though! And I have no idea why I've decided to be so informative at 5am:pac:

Thanks! So is the reading just like keeping up-to-date with new technologies or what?
And do yous find it difficult to find Work Placements for the summer?

tabouli

It's not so much reading to keep up with new technologies, more to keep up with lectures. Like if you don't understand something in class you'd have to read up on it yourself lest you fall behind kinda way.

As said before, the school runs paid internships during the summer for computer science students and I know a few who have gotten them... if you're good at it you shouldn't have too much of a problem getting one somewhere, we get emails about companies offering them quite frequently.

xAnnex

UCD

tabouli wrote: »

It's not so much reading to keep up with new technologies, more to keep up with lectures. Like if you don't understand something in class you'd have to read up on it yourself lest you fall behind kinda way.

As said before, the school runs paid internships during the summer for computer science students and I know a few who have gotten them... if you're good at it you shouldn't have too much of a problem getting one somewhere, we get emails about companies offering them quite frequently.

Thanks a lot