Pedestrianisation Trials in town

KevR

Was anyone else in town yesterday for the pedestrianisation trials on a few streets?

Cross Street, part of Lower Abbeygate Street and I presume Middle Street were closed to traffic. I have to say that the place seemed really releaxed and a lot more pleasant for a stroll than it normally is when there is traffic around. Of course, the nice weather really helped.

However, I 100% would not support this happening on a permanent basis until the full Galway Bypass is built. If/when the bypass does get built, I would definitely support this happening on a permanent basis on the streets in question along with other additional streets.

How much cross town traffic would be going down Cross Street; Middle Street or Abbeygate Street?

I wasn't in town this weekend.

KevR

Deleted User wrote: »

How much cross town traffic would be going down Cross Street; Middle Street or Abbeygate Street?

It doesn't matter. You can't reduce road capacity in a city which is already crippled with traffic problems. We need to increase capacity with the bypass first.

If you close off city centre streets, more traffic will be forced onto outer routes which are already overcrowded. It has to go somewhere!

Here's hoping for the bypass getting done sometime before 2020!!

biko

Ah so that's why they were closed off when I was driving through town.

Fozzie Bear

KevR wrote: »

Was anyone else in town yesterday for the pedestrianisation trials on a few streets?

It was weird. Was in town saturday night at 8 just as the Gardai closed it off. We were still walking on the footpath out of habit despite the lack of cars. I have to say I enjoyed it, was more relaxed and quiet. Reminded me of the Volvo ocean race week last year when they shut it down too. I'd be completely in favour of it being done on a full time basis but the bypass needs to be there to take up the slack and remove excess crosstown traffic from the city centre.

Buglim

I enjoyed it but partly agree with KenR

biko

I think a semi-permanent solution could be to close the crossing at Neachtains for cars Fridays and Saturdays after 6pm. It's mainly by taxis and boy racers then anyway.
This would free up pedestrian space between the Dail and Supermacs.

Webbs

KevR wrote: »

It doesn't matter. You can't reduce road capacity in a city which is already crippled with traffic problems. We need to increase capacity with the bypass first.

If you close off city centre streets, more traffic will be forced onto outer routes which are already overcrowded. It has to go somewhere!

Here's hoping for the bypass getting done sometime before 2020!!

I know this may have been covered in other threads, but how and why do you think that an outer bypass would relieve congestion in the centre of town in these areas?
Traffic going through that part of town is more than likely going to go out of town whether those few roads are closed or not, I cant see why bypass will make difference to centre of town
(Genuine question by the way, not trying to be sarcastic)

KevR

Webbs wrote: »

I know this may have been covered in other threads, but how and why do you think that an outer bypass would relieve congestion in the centre of town in these areas?
Traffic going through that part of town is more than likely going to go out of town whether those few roads are closed or not, I cant see why bypass will make difference to centre of town
(Genuine question by the way, not trying to be sarcastic)

The bypass will remove all through traffic and outer suberb to outer suburb/cross city traffic from the existing 'ring road' and other routes which pass near or through Central Galway. The existing 'ring road' is badly congested and a new outer bypass would free up a lot of capacity on the 'ring road' and other routes which would then give us the freedom to pedestrianise more streets in the city centre and create bus lanes (where they are really needed) with traffic being displaced onto the current 'ring road' and other routes which would have the available capacity.

While cross city traffic doesn't use the likes of Cross Street or Market Street, quite a few people go through the Central Galway area to get across town to avoid the 'ring road'.

If we were to pedestrianise more streets and create more bus lanes without a new outer bypass then traffic would be displaced onto other routes which don't really have any spare capacity at the moment.

If there is no capacity then it comes down to which is more important to the city - pedestrians in the center or cars.

I still don't see how traffic would be disrupted that much by the closure of Middle Street, Cross Street and Lower Abbeygate Street - it shouldn't have an impact on Merchants Road or the docks.

The only people who would be put out would be people who want to go from say Wolfe Tone bridge to Newtownsmith - they could go up Dominic Street or around Eyre Square. (and the funeral home if Flood Street was closed)

Anyone fancy a pavement café in front of the library on St. Augustin street?

Webbs

KevR wrote: »

The bypass will remove all through traffic and outer suberb to outer suburb/cross city traffic from the existing 'ring road' and other routes which pass near or through Central Galway. The existing 'ring road' is badly congested and a new outer bypass would free up a lot of capacity on the 'ring road' and other routes which would then give us the freedom to pedestrianise more streets in the city centre and create bus lanes (where they are really needed) with traffic being displaced onto the current 'ring road' and other routes which would have the available capacity.

While cross city traffic doesn't use the likes of Cross Street or Market Street, quite a few people go through the Central Galway area to get across town to avoid the 'ring road'.

If we were to pedestrianise more streets and create more bus lanes without a new outer bypass then traffic would be displaced onto other routes which don't really have any spare capacity at the moment.

This is where I am not sure I agree with your faith that the bypass will alleviate that much traffic. From roscam to knocknacarra people who live in that catchment wont use the outer bypass. How much traffic is truly going from one side of the city to the other (particularly outside of work rush hour traffic).
Oh and as for pedestrianising the centre, am all up for that particularly at weekends

MargeS

KevR wrote: »

Cross Street, part of Lower Abbeygate Street and I presume Middle Street were closed to traffic. I have to say that the place seemed really releaxed and a lot more pleasant for a stroll than it normally is when there is traffic around. Of course, the nice weather really helped.

Was this not done in an effort to stop taxis cueing from cross street around to the Spanish arch?

KevR

Webbs wrote: »

This is where I am not sure I agree with your faith that the bypass will alleviate that much traffic. From roscam to knocknacarra people who live in that catchment wont use the outer bypass. How much traffic is truly going from one side of the city to the other (particularly outside of work rush hour traffic).
Oh and as for pedestrianising the centre, am all up for that particularly at weekends

The bypass will alleviate traffic to the point where roundabouts on the existing 'ring road' can effeciently deal with the volume of traffic on that road. As it stands, the roundabouts and traffic lights get overwhelmed by the huge volumes and the whole place grinds to a standstill.

KevR

MargeS wrote: »

Was this not done in an effort to stop taxis cueing from cross street around to the Spanish arch?

As far as I know, the Gardai close off Cross Street some nights to stop taxis queueing illegally.

The closures yesterday were a seperate pedestrianisation trial which was advertised in one of the local newspapers a couple of weeks ago.

biko

biko wrote: »

I think a semi-permanent solution could be to close the crossing at Neachtains for cars Fridays and Saturdays after 6pm. It's mainly by taxis and boy racers then anyway.
This would free up pedestrian space between the Dail and Supermacs.

I think this would be the best solution. I wouldn't agree with closing the streets on a permanent basis, I often drive through cross street getting from the docks back to the Eyre square direction. I think closing it on Saturday nights especially would be good. Make things more comfortable around Neachtains, the Dail, Buskers, the Front Door and the Dew drop.

padraig71

I'm glad I don't play in the King's Head, it will make it pretty difficult for bands to load in there if they close Middle St.

biko

I'm sure a similar discussion was held before they pedestrianised Shop Street.

inisboffin

padraig71 wrote: »

I'm glad I don't play in the King's Head, it will make it pretty difficult for bands to load in there if they close Middle St.

Wouldn't it be like Grafton St where load in vehicles are ok, or can get a code to trigger the road spikes? Either that or it's wheelie trollies like at Electric Picnic!

dave 27

that would be cool to see the centre of galway pedestrianised..in Limerick, they have pedestrianised a lot of the city centre streets and they have to finish off more including oconnell st and bigger streets like that and have created an outer orbital route to bypass the immediate city centre and the city is a lot better already..ye should be excited galway ppl!

KevR

dave 27 wrote: »

that would be cool to see the centre of galway pedestrianised..in Limerick, they have pedestrianised a lot of the city centre streets and they have to finish off more including oconnell st and bigger streets like that and have created an outer orbital route to bypass the immediate city centre and the city is a lot better already..ye should be excited galway ppl!

Worth mentioning that Limerick will have a motorway South Ring Road and a new Shannon crossing (Shannon Tunnel) in a few months time. Galway is not so lucky in that we could be another 15 years waiting for our new bypass/ring road/bridge over the corrib.

ErnieBert

There is a private carpark for residents of the complex beside the Amnesty International Store on Middle Street. Pedestrianization will deem this facility defunct and I suspect the owners will dispute it. Also, there are at least 2 other private carparks with electric gates on St Augustine Street who need access via the one-way system on Cross Street and Middle Street to get to their spaces on St Augustine Street.

Methinks, it is dead in the water before it even begins.

Mrs OBumble

ErnieBert wrote: »

Methinks, it is dead in the water before it even begins.

No pun intended, but I wonder how funeral directors will feel about having to take caskets down Buttermilk Lane in order to get to/from the Augustinian Church.

One of the challenges is that this is very much a mixed-use area, with a lot of residents including some council/social housing for elderly people.

It's also commercial: so closure would have to be on the same basis as Shop St, with access for delivery wagons, rubbish removal etc during nominated hours. Even so, it will be difficult: Shop St is wide enough that a wagon doing a delivery can pull in to the side and others can go past, Middle St is strictly one lane only, and a truck delivering would possibly close it for 10 minutes. Trialling on Sunday rather than, say, Saturday morning, avoided all this, so wasn't really valid.

I live on Augustine St: it was weird having traffic coming the wrong way up the street on Sunday - and some went rather faster than I was happy with. We'd soon enough get used to it if it was permanent, but I don't like temporary direction changes like this: dangerous and confusing.

Not impressed with the way the council "communicated" with residents or motorists in advance either, I have a photo which I'll upload soon which shows why.

dave 27

KevR wrote: »

Worth mentioning that Limerick will have a motorway South Ring Road and a new Shannon crossing (Shannon Tunnel) in a few months time. Galway is not so lucky in that we could be another 15 years waiting for our new bypass/ring road/bridge over the corrib.

is there not a new outer ring road being constructed around galway?

jkforde

this might be it

http://www.galwaycity.ie/TopNews/290310_01.html

KevR

dave 27 wrote: »

is there not a new outer ring road being constructed around galway?

Afraid not! The planning process for the new Galway Bypass is being dragged through the courts at the moment. It could be years before we see a start in construction . Vast majority of Galway people want the bypass to go ahead but there is a very small minority who are objecting and holding it up.

dave 27

augh i hate when things get dragged out :mad: at least ye dont have a problem sorting out your city boundary like Limerick! were supposed to double in population with the extension but cant because there are 3 local authorities fighting over the money they are getting from all the shopping centres outside the boundary :mad:

cafecolour

They could pedestrianize them easily enough. At least middle and augustine - cross st. might actually have a bit of a traffic impact, while I don't think those two would.

The owners of the private carparks would have to be compensated, of course, but they're small enough I can't imagine the expense would be overwhelming.

It's whether there would be an economic advantage to doing so. I'd say there would be (post economic recovery, not at the moment) - in that Galway is hugely dependent on tourist trade, and additional pedestrianized streets off shop st would add to the allure as well as foot traffic for commercial enterprises there.

dave 27

cafecolour wrote: »

They could pedestrianize them easily enough. At least middle and augustine - cross st. might actually have a bit of a traffic impact, while I don't think those two would.

The owners of the private carparks would have to be compensated, of course, but they're small enough I can't imagine the expense would be overwhelming.

It's whether there would be an economic advantage to doing so. I'd say there would be (post economic recovery, not at the moment) - in that Galway is hugely dependent on tourist trade, and additional pedestrianized streets off shop st would add to the allure as well as foot traffic for commercial enterprises there.

totally agree as galway is very accessable to walk around already.

i thought id post some pics of the newly pedestrianised streets in Limerick to give an example how the streetscape can be changed

Mrs OBumble

cafecolour wrote: »

The owners of the private carparks would have to be compensated, of course, but they're small enough I can't imagine the expense would be overwhelming.

The loss of value for the properties that those car-parks are attached to might be more than you think.

cafecolour

cafecolour wrote: »

The owners of the private carparks would have to be compensated, of course, but they're small enough I can't imagine the expense would be overwhelming.

What about people who live there and have a private car parking space. You cannot expect these people to go without their parking space.

I don't see any reason to pedestrianize middle street and Augustine street. They are quite streets with little in the way of shops etc. The footpath is well capable of handling the pedestrain traffic on the streets. As I said before closing cross street all the time would also gain little imo. On weekend nights it would be good but at other times not worth it.

dave 27

Nia Massive Medalist wrote: »

What about people who live there and have a private car parking space. You cannot expect these people to go without their parking space.

I don't see any reason to pedestrianize middle street and Augustine street. They are quite streets with little in the way of shops etc. The footpath is well capable of handling the pedestrain traffic on the streets. As I said before closing cross street all the time would also gain little imo. On weekend nights it would be good but at other times not worth it.

like in the pics above, the streets wouldnt necessarily be 100% pedestrianised as they need a small road/ path for delivery trucks to go up them so i would imagine this would be taken into account when designing the streets which have residential parking

Mrs OBumble

dave 27 wrote: »

like in the pics above, the streets wouldnt necessarily be 100% pedestrianised as they need a small road/ path for delivery trucks to go up them so i would imagine this would be taken into account when designing the streets which have residential parking

These streets are ALREADY small. The area needed for deliveries will take most of the width of Middle St. And having the streets open for deliveries for a short time (as Shop St is every morning) is nothing like the same as having all-day access to a car-park.