Paul McCarthy take a bow

dromdrom

Scrum was awesome, lets hope this can translate into the Ireland set up.

2040

dromdrom wrote: »

Scrum was awesome, lets hope this can translate into the Ireland set up.

It was amazing actually. Is it really up to him or did Northampton just have a bad day? I don't understand the front row.

bleg

Horan had an unreal scrummaging game.

PhatPiggins

2040 wrote: »

It was amazing actually. Is it really up to him or did Northampton just have a bad day? I don't understand the front row.

Dont know what happened but Saints have an awesome front row it would be unusual for all three of them to be so off form.

dromdrom

bleg wrote: »

Horan had an unreal scrummaging game.

Not to start a munster/leinster thing but surely Horan must be ahead of Healy for the Summer tests if he carries on in the same vein.

bleg

dromdrom wrote: »

Not to start a munster/leinster thing but surely Horan must be ahead of Healy for the Summer tests if he carries on in the same vein.

To early to tell yet. Healy is a serious operator.

That's for another day. I dunno what happened Horan but he repeatedly drove Murray back today. Not even the most optimistic Munster supporter would have predicted that!

Podge_irl

dromdrom wrote: »

Not to start a munster/leinster thing but surely Horan must be ahead of Healy for the Summer tests if he carries on in the same vein.

It's hard to argue with his performance today. It's a shame that one of himself or Healy will miss out completely, as neither can be a bench prop.

thomond2006

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's hard to argue with his performance today. It's a shame that one of himself or Healy will miss out completely, as neither can be a bench prop.

Hopefully that won't be the case for long, I'm sure 23 man matchday squads (including 3 front rowers) will be adopted across the board soon.

irishbucsfan

dromdrom wrote: »

Not to start a munster/leinster thing but surely Horan must be ahead of Healy for the Summer tests if he carries on in the same vein.

As a Leinster fan I would agree. IF Horan can continue playing like that the he should be ahead of Healy, who has been poor enough recently.

castie

Due to Stan Wrights latest performances Healy isnt even getting a start.

Podge_irl

castie wrote: »

Due to Stan Wrights latest performances Healy isnt even getting a start.

Healy has by far the most game time of any prop in Leinster atm, even considering he was away with Ireland a lot. He's only just back from international duty after all, so it's possible he's just being eased back in. Stan's form means there is no need to slot him straight back in, but it's a bit early to suggest that Healy will be benching for the good at this point (though it may transpire that way).

It should also be noted that McCarthy worked with Munster before and their scrum hasn't been stellar for a number of years. Great performance today, but one swallow and all that.

dromdrom

Murray destroyed Healy in the six nations, and even though an ardent Munster supporter I would not have rated Horan to be far ahead of Healy in the scrummaging as he appeared tonight, however if the improvement in the scrum is related to McCarthy we should see Healy's performance improve if he gets game time in the summer tests.

thomond2006

castie wrote: »

Due to Stan Wrights latest performances Healy isnt even getting a start.

I fear that may continue till the end of the season.

castie

Podge_irl wrote: »

Healy has by far the most game time of any prop in Leinster atm, even considering he was away with Ireland a lot. He's only just back from international duty after all, so it's possible he's just being eased back in. Stan's form means there is no need to slot him straight back in, but it's a bit early to suggest that Healy will be benching for the good at this point (though it may transpire that way).

It should also be noted that McCarthy worked with Munster before and their scrum hasn't been stellar for a number of years. Great performance today, but one swallow and all that.

Didnt mean to suggest he would be benching. Just highlighting that Wright is the in form prop at leinster at the moment and CJ isnt being dropped.

Podge_irl

castie wrote: »

Didnt mean to suggest he would be benching. Just highlighting that Wright is the in form prop at leinster at the moment and CJ isnt being dropped.

Ah yeah, Wright's been the best prop in Leinster for two seasons now though. He's a complete legend of a player. CJ has been fantastic in the last two games, but it was only three or four weeks ago when he got rightly dropped for Ross for a game.

Horan is the better scrummager at the moment alright. He has actually come along a lot in that department in the last two years, though his all round game has suffered slightly as a result. I would imagine they might get a game each down under, though Healy may be restricted to just the Maori game.

profitius

Podge_irl wrote: »

Healy has by far the most game time of any prop in Leinster atm, even considering he was away with Ireland a lot. He's only just back from international duty after all, so it's possible he's just being eased back in. Stan's form means there is no need to slot him straight back in, but it's a bit early to suggest that Healy will be benching for the good at this point (though it may transpire that way).

It should also be noted that McCarthy worked with Munster before and their scrum hasn't been stellar for a number of years. Great performance today, but one swallow and all that.

McCarthy was there 2 seasons ago and since then the Munster scrum has gone backwards at a fast rate. He could have gained alot more knowledge since then.

Healy has struggled in the past few months. Against Munster Leinster were on top in the scrums until Healy came on. He's still very young for a prop and has the size and strength to become an excellent prop in the future. After todays performance it looks like Horan is coming back to form after his operation.

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

McCarthy was there 2 seasons ago and since then the Munster scrum has gone backwards at a fast rate. He could have gained alot more knowledge since then.

I agree that they've gone backwards, but it wasn't amazing two years ago either. He's clearly doing something right though, it was a very impressive performance today. I'm just wary of proclaiming any problem fixed given how often I've watched Munster/Ireland scrums go backwards recently.

thebaz

I'm no expert of the scrum , but Horan must be ahead of Healy on form right now - according to hook and Pope , O'driscoll added something to the scrum , in preference to O'connell - great weekend all round for Irish rugby:D

thehighground

thebaz wrote: »

I'm no expert of the scrum , but Horan must be ahead of Healy on form right now - according to hook and Pope , O'driscoll added something to the scrum , in preference to O'connell - great weekend all round for Irish rugby:D

POC didn't start against Leinster either, so its not that!


Fantastic weekend - its so much more enjoyable when everyone does well.

grenache

bleg wrote: »

To early to tell yet. Healy is a serious operator.

Healy was destroyed in the scrum against Scotland. He was the fault of numerous penalties against Ireland, mainly for bringing down the scrum or not binding properly. Yes he has the size and excellent potential but for now give me the experience and guile of Horan any day.

Podge_irl

grenache wrote: »

Healy was destroyed in the scrum against Scotland. He was the fault of numerous penalties against Ireland, mainly for bringing down the scrum or not binding properly. Yes he has the size and excellent potential but for now give me the experience and guile of Horan any day.

He wasn't actually. The Irish scrum didn't concede all that many penalties in the 6N, and those they did concede were generally split 50/50 between the loose and tight head sides. The main problem was that what ball was recovered from the scrum was awful.

Horan also had his arse thoroughly handed to him in the Scotland A game. Of course there were extenuating circumstances as he was just coming back from injury. Likewise Healy is inexperienced and should be given some similar leeway. Few people will argue that Horan isn't currently the better scrummager as he clearly is at his best, but Healy has far more potential and is worth giving time to. It's more an issue that Ireland can't afford to have a newbie prop and a prop coming to the end of their career. With a stronger TH Healy would be worth a continued punt imo, but as long we struggle at TH I think Horan (or Court for that matter) need to come in.

[Jackass]

The Irish / Munster scrum has been a liability for some time. Horan had a good day at the office, but it's tough to say if he was against a scrum that had a bad day at the office either. If he can put 3 or 4 of them together, then maybe give him the jersey, but there is absolutely no evidence that he's near Healy's scrummaging, carrying and workrate level at the moment. Still very much #2 in my eyes. I think Healy owns that jersey, and rightfully so.

profitius

[Jackass] wrote: »

The Irish / Munster scrum has been a liability for some time. Horan had a good day at the office, but it's tough to say if he was against a scrum that had a bad day at the office either. If he can put 3 or 4 of them together, then maybe give him the jersey, but there is absolutely no evidence that he's near Healy's scrummaging, carrying and workrate level at the moment. Still very much #2 in my eyes. I think Healy owns that jersey, and rightfully so.

After yesterdays display you should ask is Healy near Horan's scrummaging display.

I think Horan could have another few years at the top. The last few years he's not been at his best but after the heart op he could return back to his best.

dromdrom

Horan looks to have added some bulk in his lay off which can only be a good thing for a lightish loosehead, I know every one raves about Healy's loose play but want you want you loosehead to do is scrummage , that is the number one task and respective talents in the loose aside scrummaging ability should be the key factor in who owns the jersey.

phog

Does it matter whose ahead of who at the moment, Ireland doesn't have a match for a few more week and even then the summer tour should be about squad building.

buck65

Ah come on lads I am a Munster supporter but the point of bringing Marcus back to the Irish set up is beyond me. Healy must be persevered with in the medium term. Court is also a loose head and should be tried if Healy isn't cutting the mustard, not Horan who is nearly 33 now.
Horan did well at the weekend but hasn't played well for a couple of seasons consistently. Would definitely prefer him to concentrate on club rugby for his remaining years.
Also btw Munster's scrum did well enough against Leinster too so they have definitely improved, coupled with the fact that the first choice front row haven't played much together this season.
Anyone that claims Micko's presence instead of POC's is the reason why is nuts like George Hook. Pope did not agree either, in fact he laughed and said "Jesus"!

castie

buck65 wrote: »

Ah come on lads I am a Munster supporter but the point of bringing Marcus back to the Irish set up is beyond me. Healy must be persevered with in the medium term. Court is also a loose head and should be tried if Healy isn't cutting the mustard, not Horan who is nearly 33 now.
Horan did well at the weekend but hasn't played well for a couple of seasons consistently. Would definitely prefer him to concentrate on club rugby for his remaining years.
Also btw Munster's scrum did well enough against Leinster too so they have definitely improved, coupled with the fact that the first choice front row haven't played much together this season.
Anyone that claims Micko's presence instead of POC's is the reason why is nuts like George Hook. Pope did not agree either, in fact he laughed and said "Jesus"!

Only reason I think he should come back in as theres a World cup next year and we shouldnt be choosing on age in that respect.

crisco10

buck65 wrote: »

Anyone that claims Micko's presence instead of POC's is the reason why is nuts like George Hook. Pope did not agree either, in fact he laughed and said "Jesus"!

Indeed. Hook just likes to say obscure, controversial things to make himself sound smart. very entertaining though!

profitius

buck65 wrote: »

Ah come on lads I am a Munster supporter but the point of bringing Marcus back to the Irish set up is beyond me. Healy must be persevered with in the medium term. Court is also a loose head and should be tried if Healy isn't cutting the mustard, not Horan who is nearly 33 now.
Horan did well at the weekend but hasn't played well for a couple of seasons consistently. Would definitely prefer him to concentrate on club rugby for his remaining years.
Also btw Munster's scrum did well enough against Leinster too so they have definitely improved, coupled with the fact that the first choice front row haven't played much together this season.
Anyone that claims Micko's presence instead of POC's is the reason why is nuts like George Hook. Pope did not agree either, in fact he laughed and said "Jesus"!

Horan had a heart problem that was only found out and sorted some months back. Its amazing he was able to play at all but if he comes back approaching his best it'll be a major boost for Irish rugby. He might be 32 but its still a few years younger the Quinlan and Wallace who are both going strong.