SGU 1x12 "Divided" [SPOILERS]

Sherifu

Several of the civilians on Destiny execute a coup and take over control of the ship from the military personnel.

AlmightyCushion

Was about to go to bed and then seen this thread. Thanks Sherifu, that's me up for another hour.

AlmightyCushion

Ok maybe I'm missing something here but this doesn't really make sense. The aliens are trying to get into destiny but it's shields have always held out everytime they went at it. This time they just about made it before destiny went into FTL so obviously it isn't that hard so how come they never made it before. Especially since when everyone arrived it was running ridiculously low on power.

Secondly, why the **** don't they just latch a ship onto it and cut another hole. It worked last episode when they took Chloe so why didn't they try that before or right now. OK right now there are a lot of armed people on the ship and they have no idea of numbers or weapons capabilities but in the past there was no one on the thing. It's possible they thought that there were people on it before but they still could have sent in a few of their own to get an idea of who or what was on it.

smellslikeshoes

Great Scott

Got to agree with AlmightyCushion a lot about these aliens just doesn't seem to make sense, almost seems like during the writing they were concentrating more on the character relationship plots and hastily tacked on the alien plot arc to keep things interesting.

After saying that though, I did like the episode.
The different approach of SGU is really starting to get into it's stride in my opinion. I'm really enjoying the power struggles that have been going on.

somuj

agrees with all of the above and confused much. I tink im gonna ave to watch it again when all the alcohol leaves my brain

don ramo

McKay

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Ok maybe I'm missing something here but this doesn't really make sense. The aliens are trying to get into destiny but it's shields have always held out everytime they went at it. This time they just about made it before destiny went into FTL so obviously it isn't that hard so how come they never made it before. Especially since when everyone arrived it was running ridiculously low on power.

Secondly, why the **** don't they just latch a ship onto it and cut another hole. It worked last episode when they took Chloe so why didn't they try that before or right now. OK right now there are a lot of armed people on the ship and they have no idea of numbers or weapons capabilities but in the past there was no one on the thing. It's possible they thought that there were people on it before but they still could have sent in a few of their own to get an idea of who or what was on it.

the ship took care of itself for thousands of years as it was on autopilot, and ran itself, when the griup from earth arrived they either switched off the autopilot systems, of it was fairly damaged, either way the ship is no longer running itself,

personally id say the aliens have been trying for years to get onto destiny and had probably just succeeded as the group from earth arrived, as they said the auto defences always took care of any attacks, so if that was the case how did an alien ship attach itself to the hull,

the aliens could have assumed the group from earth probably came through thinking they owned the ship and had been summoned to protect the ship,

then after repairing some of the damaged systems from the attack, the ship went off on autopilot again to recharge itself,

we dont know what happened before the team arrived on destiny, the one thing we do know is that the ship was fairly ****ed when they got there, no air, water and very little power left,

don ramo

McKay

it was a good episode but i think its a dumb storyline, the people on destiny dont get to decide whos in charge, earth decides who in charge,

young as said is a fulll bird colonel, therefore is the most senior ranked military person on the ship, that puts him in charge of any military operation,

on the civilan side we have camille wray a glorified HR admisitrator,

who do you think is best qualified to run such an operation,

GSPfan

Great Scott

I thought it was great. This show is fast becoming my most anticipated every week.

I don't need to know every little detail of why or how Destiny has survived this long TBH. I'm happy with them saying "Automated defenses etc." I like the way there is no conference room scenes in SGU to spell out the whole story and every little step of the plan. I think they are doing fine with the vague answers. I really want to know what has happened to the guy who sat in the chair????? Have I missed something there?

I'm so happy with the direction this show is taking. Keep it coming.

GSPfan

Great Scott

don ramo wrote: »

it was a good episode but i think its a dumb storyline, the people on destiny dont get to decide whos in charge, earth decides who in charge,

young as said is a fulll bird colonel, therefore is the most senior ranked military person on the ship, that puts him in charge of any military operation,

on the civilan side we have camille wray a glorified HR admisitrator,

who do you think is best qualified to run such an operation,

See thats fine if it was a planned mission or expedition like on Atlantis. But these people are taking orders from a military foce led by an unstable commander for what may very well be the rest of their lives. And they are not military. They are normal people like Chloe with no skills. Scientists, business men and women. Its quite possible that these people will never get home ya know. Or if they do it'll take years or decades. So you have to factor that in when you think about why they are doing it.

At first they were ok with it. But as time has gone on they've seen Young leave someone on a planet to die because he didn't agree with his view of things. We know that Rush tried to frame him for murder but they don't.

I wouldn't be happy taking orders form a military force who aren't against the idea of pointing a gun in your face when you don't want to comply.

Sherifu

Great Scott

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Was about to go to bed and then seen this thread. Thanks Sherifu, that's me up for another hour.

No worries man

GSPfan wrote: »

I thought it was great. This show is fast becoming my most anticipated every week.

I don't need to know every little detail of why or how Destiny has survived this long TBH. I'm happy with them saying "Automated defenses etc." I like the way there is no conference room scenes in SGU to spell out the whole story and every little step of the plan. I think they are doing fine with the vague answers. I really want to know what has happened to the guy who sat in the chair????? Have I missed something there?

I'm so happy with the direction this show is taking. Keep it coming.

Pretty much agree with all of this. Feels like the show is really coming together now and is providing great entertainment each week. May even re-watch this episode this weekend. There was a lot of stuff going on. I liked the way they revealed the stones mystery, the history of the aliens attacking the ship and how the aliens were finding them.

GSPfan

Great Scott

Yeah it was a good episode, I will have to re-watch this one aswell. I always pay full attention to my tv shows but you can't help but miss the sumbtle things at times.

I really liked the explanation for the stones connecting to the alien ship. It was because Rush had a stone..... or was it? ha. I really like the non-answer he gave Young. That little bit of doubt in the air between both of them is great.

Chloe's position is interesting now. She has lost all faith in young but she's banging Scott, his second in command. Will Scott be forced to let one of them down at some stage?

Stabshauptmann

Two great episodes.

The Aliens were able to dock two ships to Destiny before. One we saw detach in a previous episode and one they destroyed this week.

Last week Alien vessels were able to dock twice while destiny had their shields up. Once to capture Chloe, and the second time Rush comandered an Alien ship and docked.

So yeah, this begs the question, why if they are so keen on capturing Destiny do they not just Dock again / why when they docked before didnt they take over the ship?

FreudianSlippers

Rushed

One of the best episodes to date, but still had to go for McKay. I'm getting a little sick of the power struggle story and some of the characters are really starting to drive me a bit mad.

It just also seems like they are writing themselves into corners and then going "oh, ****..." then just writing a bit of a solution to the problem they just created. The whole stones thing and the alien ship could have been explained a lot better or been one of the mysteries that we figure out as the show goes on. At the moment every episode is too neat - problems are created in one episode and then conveniently solved at the end of that episode or the beginning of the next.

SGU is starting to feel like a poorly done BSG ripoff... there I said it!

AlmightyCushion

don ramo wrote: »

the ship took care of itself for thousands of years as it was on autopilot, and ran itself, when the griup from earth arrived they either switched off the autopilot systems, of it was fairly damaged, either way the ship is no longer running itself,

personally id say the aliens have been trying for years to get onto destiny and had probably just succeeded as the group from earth arrived, as they said the auto defences always took care of any attacks, so if that was the case how did an alien ship attach itself to the hull,

the aliens could have assumed the group from earth probably came through thinking they owned the ship and had been summoned to protect the ship,

then after repairing some of the damaged systems from the attack, the ship went off on autopilot again to recharge itself,

we dont know what happened before the team arrived on destiny, the one thing we do know is that the ship was fairly ****ed when they got there, no air, water and very little power left,

But the ship is still running itself. It still flies where ever it wants etc. Maybe the defense systems aren't though for whatever reason. Anywho, in one of the first episodes there was a small ship attached to the hull of the destiny, we see it fly off at the end of one episode. I think it's safe to assume that it belongs to these aliens (although I haven't compared the designs). If it was theirs why wouldn't they use that ship to cut a hole in the hull and invade destiny. It just doesn't make sense. We've been told they've been trying for ages to get access to the ship but up until now it just looks like they haven't been all that bothered with it.

Fenster

BSG-lite? The coup was hinted at in last week's episode, occurred, was lived-through and peacefully resolved in the space of about twenty-five minutes: Just in time for the reset button to be pressed ahead of next week's episode.

I mean, sure, SG:U has far, far more intra-episode continuity than either SG1 or Atlantis, and undoubtedly we will see some lasting references to the failed coup, but Christ... It all comes off as kids throwing a fit inside a sandbox until the adults come and take all their toys away. Contrived and pretty pointless, in the end.

helimachoptor

McKay

GSPfan wrote: »

I really liked the explanation for the stones connecting to the alien ship. It was because Rush had a stone..... or was it? ha. I really like the non-answer he gave Young. That little bit of doubt in the air between both of them is great.

Chloe's position is interesting now. She has lost all faith in young but she's banging Scott, his second in command. Will Scott be forced to let one of them down at some stage?

Me too, was a good ploy on the writers and gives another devious and intelligent aspect to Rush, i liked it.

Agree, he's going to have to make a decision, I'm not sure why he didnt lock her in the cell though:rolleyes:.

I love TJ:D

Podge_irl

McKay

Fenster wrote: »

BSG-lite? The coup was hinted at in last week's episode, occurred, was lived-through and peacefully resolved in the space of about twenty-five minutes: Just in time for the reset button to be pressed ahead of next week's episode.

I mean, sure, SG:U has far, far more intra-episode continuity than either SG1 or Atlantis, and undoubtedly we will see some lasting references to the failed coup, but Christ... It all comes off as kids throwing a fit inside a sandbox until the adults come and take all their toys away. Contrived and pretty pointless, in the end.

I don't think there was any real problem with the way the coup was handled. It was a group of scientists against a well drilled group of soldiers and given the circumstances it may as well have been adults against kids. It just highlights the need for a military command in such a scenario. The civilians were weak and leaderless with several different motives going on amongst them.

Some alien elements don't make a lot of sense, but I'm enjoying the direction that SGU is going in.

ixoy

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think there was any real problem with the way the coup was handled. It was a group of scientists against a well drilled group of soldiers and given the circumstances it may as well have been adults against kids. It just highlights the need for a military command in such a scenario. The civilians were weak and leaderless with several different motives going on amongst them.

Exactly - they didn't have a chance of pulling it off really because they didn't have the training to do it. Rush had the technical know how to lock out systems but he couldn't really think tactically the same way and the civilians would not be trained to use arms. I've no issue with them suppressing it quickly - BSG was more of a military coup.

Some alien elements don't make a lot of sense, but I'm enjoying the direction that SGU is going in.

I'm trying to work out the alien thing as well. I'm guessing it's that they haven't been able to cut into it before? But then how did they find it to plant the tracker on it? Hmmm? Bah!

Still very much enjoyed the episode. I'm also glad to see that Young abandoning Rush had consequences. They also answered the question of whether they'd bring on appropriate people via the stones when required, such as a surgeon. The stones glitch might though mean they're not reliable at all (we still don't know why they glitched before).

Fenster

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think there was any real problem with the way the coup was handled. It was a group of scientists against a well drilled group of soldiers and given the circumstances it may as well have been adults against kids. It just highlights the need for a military command in such a scenario. The civilians were weak and leaderless with several different motives going on amongst them.

Some alien elements don't make a lot of sense, but I'm enjoying the direction that SGU is going in.

Makes more sense when you put it like that. Eh, the aliens were hinted at in the very first episode so I'm content to let it play out. Why does everyone want Destiny?

AlmightyCushion

Fenster wrote: »

Why does everyone want Destiny?

I imagine it's just the technology. It's a pretty advanced ship. The FTL drive, the shields seem pretty advanced as well, it can recharge itself by going into the sun which means no fuel. There could be something else as well.

Conor108

McKay

We don't know for sure why the aliens are after Destiny, just Rush's theory. Before the Icarus crew arrived, the aliens probably didn't need to latch on and cut through the hull because there is that massive opening in the dome structure on Destiny; The alien shuttles LOOK like they could probably fit through there! Then an EVA to the door and there on board

And yeah the Mutiny was supressed very quickly but sure it was trained & armed USAF and USMC personnell against civillians who did nothing but sit in the canteen:rolleyes: Was only gonna go down one way!

Oh and I always have liked SGU's music choices until Chloe's dream sequence at the beginning.

noodler

ixoy wrote: »

Exactly - they didn't have a chance of pulling it off really because they didn't have the training to do it. Rush had the technical know how to lock out systems but he couldn't really think tactically the same way and the civilians would not be trained to use arms. I've no issue with them suppressing it quickly - BSG was more of a military coup.

I don't really go along with the whole training apect. The only reason it failed was because they forgot there was a hole in the back of the ship.

All the military's superior training etc wouldn't have mattered a jot if the whole had been guarded or simply not been there.

Regardless, good episode. Same questions about the Aliens but I really hope Caprica comse back from its mid-season break as strongly as SGU has.

Chloe - little bitch.

don ramo

McKay

noodler wrote: »

I don't really go along with the whole training apect. The only reason it failed was because they forgot there was a hole in the back of the ship.

All the military's superior training etc wouldn't have mattered a jot if the whole had been guarded or simply not been there.

Regardless, good episode. Same questions about the Aliens but I really hope Caprica comse back from its mid-season break as strongly as SGU has.

Chloe - little bitch.

were all looking forward to that, the 6 months will fly;)

fact is that earth has decided that young is in charge and they are free to alter that at any time, but no-one is as qualified as young to lead the mission, hes may not be the best option, but as i said hes the best on-board,

remember atlantis was a civilian operation backed up by the military, but the civilian leader (weir) was an expert in foerign relations and well able to hold her own when it came to military calls,

wray as i've said repeatedly is a HR manager for the IOA, i doubth very much she was trained in anyway to command any mission, never mind one where there stranded thousands of light years from earth,

FreudianSlippers

Rushed

don ramo wrote: »

were all looking forward to that, the 6 months will fly;)

fact is that earth has decided that young is in charge and they are free to alter that at any time, but no-one is as qualified as young to lead the mission, hes may not be the best option, but as i said hes the best on-board,

remember atlantis was a civilian operation backed up by the military, but the civilian leader (weir) was an expert in foerign relations and well able to hold her own when it came to military calls,

wray as i've said repeatedly is a HR manager for the IOA, i doubth very much she was trained in anyway to command any mission, never mind one where there stranded thousands of light years from earth,

I sort of agree with this, but I feel we haven't seen the end of this power struggle and we never will. This is going to be a main theme of this show from start to finish imo - and I honestly feel that they're not doing it right and it will get old... FAST.

I've also said it earlier in this thread, but I'll say it again: SGU is starting to feel like a poorly done BSG ripoff!

This military/civilian power struggle and how their society should go forward and be governed was done in BSG and done better in BSG.
I know there is only so much you can do with this type of show - and I know that military/civilian power struggles have existed forever and still do today, but a show like SGU is a total blank slate. They could literally do ANYTHING they wanted on this show and as long as it was thought out clearly in advance and had a point it was going towards.

If you look back on the past 12 episodes as a whole, it almost seems like the show was pushed out before it was ready to go.
Small things from the first few episodes feel like mis-starts... almost like they started to go down one storyline and then changed their mind and just jerked us to another plot altogether and hoped we'd forget the episode before.

ixoy

OisinT wrote: »

This military/civilian power struggle and how their society should go forward and be governed was done in BSG and done better in BSG.
I know there is only so much you can do with this type of show - and I know that military/civilian power struggles have existed forever and still do today, but a show like SGU is a total blank slate. They could literally do ANYTHING they wanted on this show and as long as it was thought out clearly in advance and had a point it was going towards.

Well there isn't a huge choice of options open to them though and a power struggle is dramatically more interesting. The coup in BSG was spread over arcs and was a bigger power struggle - this is more about people wanting to be heard a little more. There hasn't been executions, etc.

Small things from the first few episodes feel like mis-starts... almost like they started to go down one storyline and then changed their mind and just jerked us to another plot altogether and hoped we'd forget the episode before.

I don't really agree with this - the first half of the season could be seen as them trying to get the Destiny into a working state. So that'd be getting the systems back online, etc before they can crack into exploring what's outside the ship.
I wouldn't really hold up a comparison to BSG either - since that's a show where the producers openly admitted they were making it up as they went along (and it showed in later years).

Podge_irl

McKay

noodler wrote: »

I don't really go along with the whole training apect. The only reason it failed was because they forgot there was a hole in the back of the ship.

The whole thing could have come acropper had that one airman simply refused to give up his firearm and taken the civilians hostage. Had the hole not been there the military side would have all been working towards the same goal and would have done whatever was necessary to achieve that. The whole point was that it's the military element and direct chain of command that succeeds in adverse conditions.

noodler

don ramo wrote: »

were all looking forward to that, the 6 months will fly;)

fact is that earth has decided that young is in charge and they are free to alter that at any time, but no-one is as qualified as young to lead the mission, hes may not be the best option, but as i said hes the best on-board,

remember atlantis was a civilian operation backed up by the military, but the civilian leader (weir) was an expert in foerign relations and well able to hold her own when it came to military calls,

wray as i've said repeatedly is a HR manager for the IOA, i doubth very much she was trained in anyway to command any mission, never mind one where there stranded thousands of light years from earth,

I think that my point was misinterpreted.

I didn't mean that the military aren't the right ones to leade the expedition - what I meant was that their training isn't why the 'mutiny' failed. It was a hole in the ship.

Owen

So, has anyone done a screengrab of the ship that detached from Destiny way back when, and the new alien shuttles? I'm waaaaaaay too lazy to do it

Sherifu

Great Scott

PaintDoctor wrote: »

So, has anyone done a screengrab of the ship that detached from Destiny way back when, and the new alien shuttles? I'm waaaaaaay too lazy to do it

Air:


Space:


Joseph Mallozzi (i'll put this in spoiler just in case)

confirmed they're the same afaik.

Fenster

So say we all!

noodler

Hah, Legendary Fenster!

See Overheal - BSG style comparisons of the mutiny were inevitable.

To be honest I thought Adama could have been a bit more ruthless to say the least.

I understand it is different in Young's situation though.

astrofool

noodler wrote: »

I think that my point was misinterpreted.

I didn't mean that the military aren't the right ones to leade the expedition - what I meant was that their training isn't why the 'mutiny' failed. It was a hole in the ship.

They could also have used the shuttle to blast a hole.

What happened to the ship that Rush and Chloe returned in?

don ramo

McKay

in all fairness you cant compare the BSG mutiny to SG-Us, BSG was the remainder of the human race, nearly 50,000 people on mulitiple ships, the mutiny started as a lot of people werent happy with the alliance with the cylons, which in the end saved the human race,

wheras SG-U is 50 people stranded in deep space, and arent happy cause there being whipped into shape and thought how to survive, some people will be left behind, which is unfortunate, but the military are better trained to make these hard decisions, sacrificing one for the many might never be a good thing but at least they can make the call, which in the end will save more than it kills,

weve seen before on atlantis where civilian overseers dodge calls and bury there heads so that they dont have to make the call, and then pop up later to either point the finger or thank the people for a good job,

noodler

Yeah agreed Don pretty much.

Outstanding picture though.


BSG was war - pretty much always.

SGU isn't.

FreudianSlippers

Rushed

noodler wrote: »

Yeah agreed Don pretty much.

Outstanding picture though.


BSG was war - pretty much always.

SGU isn't.

but obviously SGU is going to be war. Between humans on destiny and these grasshopper aliens.

Overheal

Great Scott

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I imagine it's just the technology. It's a pretty advanced ship. The FTL drive, the shields seem pretty advanced as well, it can recharge itself by going into the sun which means no fuel. There could be something else as well.

Even the Asgard were still studying their Repository at their own end there. In Thor's own words they had barely scratched the Surface. While Destiny was by comparison immensely old, it would still represent an incredible achievement. What else can you say about an Inter-Galactic Vessel powered by the Stars themselves?

What will be interesting is how they will probably write themselves into an inconsistency with Destiny's Abilities. Already displaying how dilapidated it is - how is it supposed to defend itself anymore? More interestingly, how has it, up to this point, autonomously? And what happened to Destiny when the Stargate was Activated for the first time since its launch?

Furthermore we still have yet in Series to hear about the Seeder Ships.

helimachoptor

McKay

Podge_irl wrote: »

The whole thing could have come acropper had that one airman simply refused to give up his firearm and taken the civilians hostage. Had the hole not been there the military side would have all been working towards the same goal and would have done whatever was necessary to achieve that. The whole point was that it's the military element and direct chain of command that succeeds in adverse conditions.

Agreed, he should have given one of the civilians a flesh wound and got rush to open the door. If he didnt do that he should have given rush/wray a flesh wound and that would have got it done.

wyrn

Rushed

When I saw the opening sequence I was peeved. I thought it was going to be a Chloe-centric episode (and as you may have gathered I cannot stand her) however I hate to admit it but I was pleasantly surprised. I actually liked her in this episode.

It was an inevitable coup that wouldn't work out. It's a pity. I'd hate to be stuck on that ship with Young barking orders like "get to your quarters now" as if they were children. TJ's attitude summed it up well - the military way of thinking. I think that way might cost them in the long run. They are very narrow minded when it comes to suggestions from the civilians. A sort of "my way or I'll leave you on a desolate planet way".

Young is very much removed from any leader we've seen in Stargate. He's paranoid (with some good reason too), not in full health, hates Rush & co and makes rash decisions.

The military and scientists need to work together. The military for protection and the well being of the ship/crew and the scientists for figuring out how to control the ship. They very much need a leader who is commanding and not a solider or scientist but someone who command respect from both. I don't think Wray has it at all. Shooter McGavin would have been perfect. I think Chloe is being set up for this position (otherwise why have her character).

I think Eli is playing a very dangerous game (unknowingly). He's so eager to please Young (prob due to wanting to carve out his own career and not being in Rush's shadow) that I think this might have disastrous consequences. Remember when Chloe asked Rush to stop otherwise they could lose Young & Young Guy (still having problems with names) and he did now compare this to Young barking orders at Eli. Eli generally seems to follow them even if he thinks it's not a good idea - he'll tell Young that but Young just shouts back and Eli caves in. I can see an episode when Rush is confined or banned from working on the ship and Eli is in charge, something happens and Young wants something done which Eli doesn't agree with but goes along with it. At least Rush has the balls to ignore him or anyone else (like in the earlier episode when they tried to use the gate, can't remember exactly which episode it was) and it worked out well in the end.

I don't know where this is going to go but I'm glad it's picked up. One thing I'm not liking is the amount of episode fillers of camera panning and music.

Manach

Note to self - always get guns/armory codes prior to my future coup.
Overall, I enjoyed the episode.