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Fallen Angels

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  • 08-04-2010 4:40pm
    #1
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭


    The Bible teaches us that Christ was crucified died for our sins so that we might be saved from the flames of eternal damnation. What is the prognosis for the fallen angels? Angels are not sinful by nature as they are not descended from Adam so I don't see the redemption of sins being applicable to them. They seem to have the gift of free will without the ability to be a sinner. My understanding is that they were basically disobedient and rebelled against the will of God. Is there hope for forgiveness for them? Is anything in all creation beyond the mercy of God?


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    #2
    StealthRolex
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭StealthRolex


    1st wrote: »
    The Bible teaches us that Christ was crucified died for our sins so that we might be saved from the flames of eternal damnation. What is the prognosis for the fallen angels? Angels are not sinful by nature as they are not descended from Adam so I don't see the redemption of sins being applicable to them. They seem to have the gift of free will without the ability to be a sinner. My understanding is that they were basically disobedient and rebelled against the will of God. Is there hope for forgiveness for them? Is anything in all creation beyond the mercy of God?

    If you knew for a fact that there is a God because you could see Him and knew for a fact that there is a Hell because you could see it and you knew that to disobey God was a sure fire way to get yourself thrown out of heaven and into Hell from which there is no escape would you disobey God?

    The fallen angels acted out of free will and choose to reject what they knew to be true so there can be no redemption for them.


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    #3
    cynder
    Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    isnt there something in revelation about them being thrown into the pit (abyss) for 1000 years with satan and then being released again and then after a time they will be thrown into the lake of fire, gehenna and distroyed . There are a lot of metaphores in revelation.

    http://www.truthnet.org/christianity/revelation/revelation9/
    Two types of demons
    Scripture list two types of demons or fallen angels, one type has the freedom to operate in the physical earthly realms as specified in Ephesians 2:2,6:12 and Matthew 12:43-45. They are over earthly kingdoms and vie for control of men. The second type of demon are imprisoned, demons which are restrained and held back. They are referred to in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6, as being chained in darkness, reserved for the day of judgment. The word used by Peter was tartarovw Tartaroo known as “Tartaros”, distinct from Hades.

    http://www.revelationonlinebiblestudy.com/Revelation9/abyss.html

    Revelation 9
    The Fifth Trumpet - Revelation 9:1-8
    What is the Abyss?
    Description of Demonic Creatures - Revelation 9:9-10
    The Sixth Trumpet - Revelation 9:13-21
    The Release of the Four Angels - Revelation 9:14-15
    The Army of Two Hundred Million - Revelation 9:16-19
    The Society of the Future - Revelation 9:20-21
    What is the Abyss?
    part of a Bible study by Paul George
    (1) The abyss is the temporary abode and prison of a portion of the demon hosts where they wait their eternal and final judgment to the lake of fire.

    (2) The descriptions of this place is found in 2 Peter 2:4 where it is called “the abode of the judged,” In Jude 6 it is described as “eternal bonds under darkness.” In Luke 8:31 and Romans 10:7, it is described simply as “the abyss,” “the place of unfathomable depth.” In Revelation 9:1-2, it is described as “the pit or shaft of the abyss”, and as “the spirits now in prison” in 1 Peter 3:19-20.

    (3) A study of the above passages shows us that the abyss is a place of judgment for demons for specific sin. It is utterly black and the demons there are in total oblivion to the rest of the universe. It is also a place of bondage; a prison from which not even Satan can release them until he is give the key and authority to do so in keeping with God’s sovereign purpose for the judgments.

    (4) The majority of these bound demons are there because they left their normal habitation and abode.

    In Revelation 9, Satan, the king of the fallen angels or demons, is given the power and authority by God to open the abyss and release these demons on earth.



    http://jcsm.org/biblelessons/UnderstandingHell.htm




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    #4
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    StealthRolex wrote: »
    If you knew for a fact that there is a God because you could see Him and knew for a fact that there is a Hell because you could see it
    Wasn't Hell created as a punishment for the Fallen Angels? Ergo they could not have seen it before they fell because it didn't exist so the consequences of their act would have been unknown.


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    #5
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    1st wrote: »
    Wasn't Hell created as a punishment for the Fallen Angels? Ergo they could not have seen it before they fell because it didn't exist so the consequences of their act would have been unknown.
    Tbh, if you decide to declare war on an omnipotent Being, then you don't have to be a rocket scientist to foresee that the consequences are likely to be unpleasant.


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    #6
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Agreed, it was bit rash to get all uppity like that, but who could have guessed that you would be condemned for all eternity by a God who had up to then been a nice guy?

    So on the last day will the God of Love really condemn angels and human sinners to an eternity of punishment without remission? I don't buy into the "they condemned themselves" line, even if they did, couldn't they still be forgiven? Will an empty Hell cease to exist?


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    #7
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    PDN wrote: »
    Tbh, if you decide to declare war on an omnipotent Being, then you don't have to be a rocket scientist to foresee that the consequences are likely to be unpleasant.

    Perhaps at that point they either viewed Lucifer as also being omnipotent (paradoxes aside), or they suspected that niether Lucifer or God were omnipotent, and it was all up in the air? Why would they apose(sc) a being they knew was omnipotent? I think common sense suggests they wouldn't. Although sometimes "people" will fight on a side they know can not win, deep down I'm sure there is always the slightest hope.

    To my mind the more important question is, what motivated them to risk everything for a cause they thought was more than likely doomed to fail?


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    #8
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    1st wrote: »
    So on the last day will the God of Love really condemn angels and human sinners to an eternity of punishment without remission?

    There's remission now, why don't they avail of it? Let them fry that's what I say.


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    #9
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Soul Winner wrote: »
    Let them fry that's what I say.

    Jesus :eek:. Dude..., turn the other cheek and all that.... ("Soul winner is a good student, but he must try harder")


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    #10
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    strobe wrote: »
    Jesus :eek:. Dude..., turn the other cheek and all that.... ("Soul winner is a good student, but he must try harder")

    My tolerance for **sh*l*s wears thinner and thinner by the day. If they're to stupid to appreciate the greatness of the gift that God has wrought through Christ so that their sorry asses might be saved then they're too stupid to be in heaven and I for one am glad that I do not have to spend eternity with idiots like that. You might think that that's not a very Christian thing to say but just listen to Jesus when He told the parable of the sower. His disciples asked Him why does He speak in parables, and He tells them that the reason He speaks in parables is so that by hearing they do not understand and by seeing the do not perceive lest they see and understand and turn that I shall heal them. He doesn't want them either. That's my kind of Jesus.


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    #11
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Soul Winner wrote: »
    My tolerance for **sh*l*s wears thinner and thinner by the day. If they're to stupid to appreciate the greatness of the gift that God has wrought through Christ so that their sorry asses might be saved then they're too stupid to be in heaven and I for one am glad that I do not have to spend eternity with idiots like that. You might think that that's not a very Christian thing to say but just listen to Jesus when He told the parable of the sower. His disciples asked Him why does He speak in parables, and He tells them that the reason He speaks in parables is so that by hearing they do not understand and by seeing the do not perceive lest they see and understand and turn that I shall heal them. He doesn't want them either. That's my kind of Jesus.

    At least you're honest...... :(. I know the parable of the sower. Like all parables, you take from it the message you want, some people get it, some don't. Sometimes it's good to look again....


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    #12
    Soul Winner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Soul Winner


    strobe wrote: »
    At least you're honest...... :(. I know the parable of the sower. Like all parables, you take from it the message you want, some people get it, some don't. Sometimes it's good to look again....

    OK what do you think the parable teaches?


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