Israel or Turkey for EU memebrship ?

anymore

If Israel's issues with Palestine were resolved in the near future ( Yes I know it is unlikely), then the question of whether Israel might be considered for member ship of the EU may arise. There are many reason's why Israel might be considered for EU membership, not least of which is that so many of it's people have a European heritage, it is a fIrst world country, unlike much of Turkey and large scale migration to Europe is unlike to be a major problem given its relatively small population relative to Turkey's population.
Any views of whether anyone or both of these countries could or should be admitted to the EU. Turkey's potential membership is of course well advanced at this stage.

owenc

tbh I wouldn't want any of them... but if i were to pick it would be Turkey...

irishdub14

If I had to pick one, then definitely Israel, for the exact reasons you stated above, and even though Israel has big problems, the Turks are mad!

rightwingdub

I don't want either country in the EU, Israel shouldn't be in the EU as the state of Israel should never have been created back in 1948 and secondly the main reason why I'm opposed to Turkish membership is because it will lead to mass immigration into Ireland.

wes

It would make more sense for Israel to form a economic union with it Middle Eastern neighbours, and they are most definetly outside of Europe. Turkey is already a stretch when it comes to Europe, but not no part of Israel is even in Europe. I think they shouldn't be member for the same reason as Morrocco wasn't allowed apply for membership, they simply aren't in Europe. Also, why not let Lebanon join, a lot of people there are of European descent as well. Also, would it be possible to have Israel join and not Palestine, even with a 2 state solution, the 2 countries would still be intimately linked, and would in all likelihood share a capital.

Turkey needs to end its occupation of Cyprus, before they can join, but once that and there other issues are sorted out, then I see no reason why they should not be allowed to join.

anymore

Israel is clearly a mediteranean basin country and just as clearly it does not belong in either the african or Middle eastern blocks - which one would accept it as part of any block ? Iceland is not part of europe, but that would not be held against it as regards EU membership would it ?
If physical geography is to be criticial, then where will the line be drawn ? Hpw far east can the EU go ?

meditraitor

Turkey could if they play their cards right be into the fold within 10 years, Isreal hasnt got a chance in hell within 20 or 30....... Guaranteed.

wes

anymore wrote: »

Israel is clearly a mediteranean basin country and just as clearly it does not belong in either the african or Middle eastern blocks - which one would accept it as part of any block ? Iceland is not part of europe, but that would not be held against it as regards EU membership would it ?
If physical geography is to be criticial, then where will the line be drawn ? Hpw far east can the EU go ?

Morroco made the same claim as well, and they weren't allowed to apply. So I don't see why Israel would be able to apply, where as Morroco wasn't. If we stretch the EU to include the Mediteranean countries, shouldn't we also consider most of North Africa, and Lebanon as well? Sure, Spain has terroritory in North Africa, which is part of the EU, and those countries can't join.

Also, if Israel problems with Palestine were sorted out, I see no reason why they could not join a ME trading block.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I don't think the European heritage is any reason to allow Israel join. If we did then why not South Africa, Australia, US etc?

Turkey, well I think they're too far behind the EU at the moment. Richard Dawkins website being banned, can't really take them seriously after that. The whole Armenian genocide denial thing is pathetic also.

anymore

wes wrote: »

Morroco made the same claim as well, and they weren't allowed to apply. So I don't see why Israel would be able to apply, where as Morroco wasn't. If we stretch the EU to include the Mediteranean countries, shouldn't we also consider most of North Africa, and Lebanon as well? Sure, Spain has terroritory in North Africa, which is part of the EU, and those countries can't join.

Also, if Israel problems with Palestine were sorted out, I see no reason why they could not join a ME trading block.

Well each application is judges on its own merits. Israel has so much in common with Europe that it seems to be a good fit for membership. That fact alone that it is a first world country means it would be less of a drain on European resources. African countries really need to organise their own trading blocks rather than have some of thier countries ' migrate' so to speak to the EU as there has been some effort to form a trading group in the Americas. From memory gaddafy made some efforts to from an Arab block in the sevenites or eighties.

dlofnep

anymore wrote: »

Israel has so much in common with Europe that it seems to be a good fit for membership.

No it doesn't. It has nothing in common with Europe. It routinely disregards any condemnations towards it, and accuses anybody who condemns it's actions as anti-semitic. It illegally occupies territory against the will of the international community. For the same reason - I wouldn't want Turkey in the EU until it lifts it's occupation of Cyprus.

anymore wrote: »

That fact alone that it is a first world country means it would be less of a drain on European resources.

Only that, their defense would no longer be a drain on the US tax payer, but the EU tax payer.

Israel has nothing to offer Europe.

wes

anymore wrote: »

Well each application is judges on its own merits. Israel has so much in common with Europe that it seems to be a good fit for membership. That fact alone that it is a first world country means it would be less of a drain on European resources.
African countries really need to organise their own trading blocks rather than have some of thier countries ' migrate' so to speak to the EU as there has been some effort to form a trading group in the Americas. From memory gaddafy made some efforts to from an Arab block in the sevenites or eighties.

How much of Israel economy is propped up by funding from the US? Would there economy remain first world with out this propping up?

Also, having things in common doesn't seem like criteria for joining the EU. I am pretty sure the EU would reject Australia and New Zealand, despite having loads in common with Europe.

Also, if you look at the reasons for the rejection of Morrocco, a lot of them would apply to Israel as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco_%E2%80%93_European_Union_relations#Membership_application

The same reasoning would easily apply to Israel imho.

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

Israel has nothing to offer Europe.

they can offer Irish citizens faster passport processing

Eliot Rosewater

I don't see why these "Should <insert country> be allowed join the EU" threads keep popping up.

If the country in question satisfies the Copenhagen criteria then I fail to see what the problem is. I prefer that the admissions system is run according to those rational benchmarks described within the agreements, rather than some half-xenophobic knee-jerk aversion to Muslim Turks being in the EU.

dlofnep

Tell me anymore - On what basis should Israel join the EU?

Provide us with 3 real reasons. (Hint: Some of it's citizens having European heritage isn't one of them).

wes

I taught posting the Copenhagen criteria would be a good idea:

Accession criteria (Copenhagen criteria)
Copenhagen criteria (From Wikipedia)


**EDIT**
Turkey satifies candidate status, so it can begin the accession process.

Also, I don't think Israel satifies the geographical criteria, so I reckon they would be rejected on that basis alone like Morroco.
**END EDIT**

Scofflaw

wes wrote: »

I taught posting the Copenhagen criteria would be a good idea:

Accession criteria (Copenhagen criteria)
Copenhagen criteria (From Wikipedia)


**EDIT**
Turkey satifies candidate status, so it can begin the accession process.

Also, I don't think Israel satifies the geographical criteria, so I reckon they would be rejected on that basis alone like Morroco.
**END EDIT**

Turkey has in fact begun the accession process - but currently has only completed one "chapter" of the 35 it needs to qualify for accession, and eight of those chapters are currently blocked by Cyprus.

cordially,
Scofflaw

wes

Scofflaw wrote: »

Turkey has in fact begun the accession process - but currently has only completed one "chapter" of the 35 it needs to qualify for accession, and eight of those chapters are currently blocked by Cyprus.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Thanks for that, got confused there.

bonkey

anymore wrote: »

Iceland is not part of europe, but that would not be held against it as regards EU membership would it ?

Ummm, Iceland is considered part of Europe...politically and geographically.

If physical geography is to be criticial, then where will the line be drawn ? Hpw far east can the EU go ?

If physical geography is critical, then the line should be drawn where the accepted "divides" are. A quick google or wiki-search will show where they are - The Urals, the Caspian, the Caucasus, the Black Sea, the Med form the main boundaries to the east and south.

Physical divides, of this nature, mean that some nations straddle these divides...Turkey being one (and Russia being another). Whether or not "partially in Europe" would or should be a sufficient criteria if geography is critical is another question entirely.

Were