Where They Right to Jump Ship

Motley Crue

In the early to late 90's a lot of the stars of WWF jumped ship to WCW for one reason or another - a lot of it coming down to backstage politics, money and creative freedom or control of their character.

Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Mr Perfect, Bret Hart, The British Bulldog (even before the Screwjob Bulldog had a short stint in WCW in 1993), Jake Roberts, Ted Diabase, Ultimate Warrior, Rick Rude...most of the cast of Legends of Wrestlemania ended up in the WCW at some point or another.

Many will argue that in the case of people like Rude and Warrior, their best days were over well before they reached WCW, and they did it just to survive in the only industry they had a trade in. Others will argue, like Savage, that it was done because they couldn't stand Vince McMahon. Bret Hart had his own reasons.

What I'm asking though, is, generally (leaving aside those who were forced to go or special cases - and mention those if you like) were they right to go? Like when Alundra Blayze binned the WCW Women's Title on Monday Night Nitro, should they have acted with such disrespect - or just been thankful to have had a chance to wrestle in WWF. On the same hand, was Vince that cruel of a boss? Did he drive talent out or sideline them when he believed they'd served any useful purpose.

Many would say judging by the last few years treatment of Goldberg, Jerry Lynn, Sabu and especially Scott Steiner in WWE that good WCW/ECW talent was never potentiality used and just wasted - so it's no surprise the likes of Steiner jumped ship to TNA

What do you guys think?

Vince135792003

In the 1980's the WWF took virtually every major talent they wanted from all the other promotions (Hogan, Heenan, Okerlund, Junk Yard Dog, Harely Race, etc.... etc...).


In the 1990's the shoe was on the other foot and WCW raided the WWF. It's business and in general the wrestlers were perfectly entitled to go where they wanted. A wrestling career is a short one and you can't live on fresh air when you retire so they were right to maximise their income.

Penn

I was watching the Monday Night Wars DVD a few weeks ago (and the Rise and Fall of WCW last week) and Eric Bischoff said the Alundra Blaze thing was his idea, and she was hesitant to do it.

I think a lot of the guys going to WCW was a good idea, the worst bit was how they did it. Guys like Lex Luger and Rick Rude who didn't even tell Vince they were leaving, just stalled on their contracts and showed up on Nitro live. Whether that was their own idea or Bischoff wanted them to do it, that was low.

But with what WCW offered a lot of these guys, who wouldn't jump ship? I think it was Hall and Nash who had in their contracts that they had to be two of the highest paid stars. So if WCW hired someone and offered them more than what Hall and Nash were getting, Hall and Nash got payrises. And a lot of them had creative control over their characters, so could pretty much choose if they won or lost. Hell, Nash even got the job of head booker at one point and gave himself the WCW title, breaking Goldberg's undefeated streak, and then gave the title to Hogan about a week later in the 'Fingerpoke of Doom'. You can't give guys like that so much power. But he probably never would have gotten that in WWF

chopperbyrne

Fairly certain the only person who had significant creative control in WCW was Hogan and then Bret asked for it, but rarely vetoed anything as he was disinterested by then.

You left out the most important option in the poll: Yes, they have to earn as much as possible while they are active and WCW offered guaranteed money and a much lighter schedule (for a time).

WWF was still treating it's employees as independent contractors so if you had to miss a show due to illness or injury (caused while working for WWF) you did not get paid.

Some of the ways they jumped ship was slightly underhanded, like Lex showing up on the first Nitro, but in general nobody really did anything wrong.

Penn

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Fairly certain the only person who had significant creative control in WCW was Hogan and then Bret asked for it, but rarely vetoed anything as he was disinterested by then

I think Hogan had the most control over his character, but the other guys still refused to lose a lot of their matches. Thats why younger guys could never get over. Maybe creative control was the wrong term to use, but they still had more control over what happened than they should have.

I agree with the rest of what you said though

Cactus Colm

Motley Crue wrote: »

Many would say judging by the last few years treatment of Goldberg, Jerry Lynn, Sabu and especially Scott Steiner in WWE that good WCW/ECW talent was never potentiality used and just wasted - so it's no surprise the likes of Steiner jumped ship to TNA

I thought Sabu was treated very well, he was given every chance to look like a legitimate main eventer in wwe, but dropped the ball with his own behaviour (such as no-showing events).

Goldberg was thrown into the main event scene, and was quickly made a world champion, throughout his tenure feuded in the main event scene. Steiner as well was put into the main event scene immediately. I cannot think of any match either man had being particularly good. I would go to say that Steiner's matches were less than good.

To think that talent is purposefully wasted is silliness. Was talent wasted, sure. But the fault doesn't lie just at the feet of mcmahon, sometimes things just don't click as expected. Gimmicks don't take off, or angles don't spark excitement. The likes of Steiner and Goldberg don't sign cheap contracts. And lets face it, STeiner never exactly set the world on fire in TNA, and a great many fans were critical of their decision to sign him.

Booker T, Ric Flair, Rob Van Dam, The Big Show all had great runs with WWE. Tommy Dreamer and Sandman got the pushes of their lives.

In the same way Warriors and Bret Hart's runs in WCW weren't anything to write home about. Both completely wasted. Certainly Bret was wasted up until his injury, and ultimate warrior was involved in one of the silliest angles going.

I don't think any of the workers were wrong in making the jump to wCw. Some went for the money, some for the lighter schedule, I'm sure there was a whole host of reasons. Going didn't make them right or wrong, how they handled their departures might be another story. I think Hogan was gone from WWF a while. Hall and Nash obviously gave notice. Lex Luger just turning up on Nitro might have been a bit of a dick move. Vince became the king of dick moves if you look at the montreal screw job.

Degag

Of course they were right to jump ship. WCW was the bigger promotion at the time - well they had alot more money anyway and money talks. Wrestlers who jumped ship were on much more lucrative contracts than the 'E. Also, it's slightly unfair to say they forced Bret out. They wanted him to stay and gave him a multi year contract that was unprecedented at the time. Of course Vince then saw he couldn't afford it and allowed Bret to talk to WCW. We all knew what happened then but it was more of a case of Vince trying to protect his own company (in his own mind) than forcing Bret out.

waltersobchak

Degag wrote: »

Of course they were right to jump ship. WCW was the bigger promotion at the time - well they had alot more money anyway and money talks. Wrestlers who jumped ship were on much more lucrative contracts than the 'E. Also, it's slightly unfair to say they forced Bret out. They wanted him to stay and gave him a multi year contract that was unprecedented at the time. Of course Vince then saw he couldn't afford it and allowed Bret to talk to WCW. We all knew what happened then but it was more of a case of Vince trying to protect his own company (in his own mind) than forcing Bret out.

It was nothing to do with Vince not being able to afford it,that was simply his scapegoat.. He realised that the future of the company was Stone Cold and HBK and not Bret

Degag

waltersobchak wrote: »

It was nothing to do with Vince not being able to afford it,that was simply his scapegoat.. He realised that the future of the company was Stone Cold and HBK and not Bret

Don't know.

Every article i've read on the matter supports my post.

waltersobchak

Degag wrote: »

Don't know.

Every article i've read on the matter supports my post.

Well look at it this way..In 1997 WWF was just on the road to the "Attitude" era, with Jerry Springeresqe storylines, Violence,etc etc etc, Where does Bret Hart fit into that? Nowhere so why would Vince continue to pay him $2.5 million a year every year, for 10 years if he was no longer A) The Biggest Draw and A dinosaur in his new era..

Degag

waltersobchak wrote: »

Well look at it this way..In 1997 WWF was just on the road to the "Attitude" era, with Jerry Springeresqe storylines, Violence,etc etc etc, Where does Bret Hart fit into that? Nowhere so why would Vince continue to pay him $2.5 million a year every year, for 10 years if he was no longer A) The Biggest Draw and A dinosaur in his new era..

I don't see why Bret could not have fitted into the attitude era really.

Also, i have no idea what money he was on but afaik he was offered/given a 20 year contract not a 10 year one. Would doubt that he was given that much as the length of the contract was supposed to make up for the difference in pay that he would be receiving in WCW.

It's debatable whether he was the biggest draw at that time or if he stayed with the company. But he certainly would have been one of the biggest - no doubt about that i think.

Also, A Dinosaur??? He was in his late 30's. Look at the matches between Taker and Michaels - Two guys as close to 50 as they are to 40.

waltersobchak

Degag wrote: »

I don't see why Bret could not have fitted into the attitude era really.

Also, i have no idea what money he was on but afaik he was offered/given a 20 year contract not a 10 year one. Would doubt that he was given that much as the length of the contract was supposed to make up for the difference in pay that he would be receiving in WCW.

It's debatable whether he was the biggest draw at that time or if he stayed with the company. But he certainly would have been one of the biggest - no doubt about that i think.

Also, A Dinosaur??? He was in his late 30's. Look at the matches between Taker and Michaels - Two guys as close to 50 as they are to 40.

Im not talking about his matches im talking about his character, his character was a dinosaur in the new attitude era of WWF, compared to the edginess of Stone Cold, DX and everything that was about to come from WWF over the next few years.

chopperbyrne

His anti-American/pro-everywhere else heel character was brilliant and would have fit in very well in the Attitude era. However, without the screwjob, there'd be no Mr. McMahon and Stone Cold wouldn't have been a massive superstar.

Motley Crue

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Stone Cold wouldn't have been a massive superstar.

The screwjob launched Vince McMahon, true, but how did it aid Stone Cold in anyway?

He earned the title by defeating Shawn Michaels, and became a star on the back of that, his match against Hart at WM13 with Ken Shamrock as guest referee was memorable, but happened long before that screwjob

And if he hadn't of attacked the boss, Stone Cold would have found another way to be well known, he would have feuded with the Rock or something

chopperbyrne

The feud with Vince is what propelled him to Superstardom. It's what people all around the world have wanted to do for centuries, stick it to the boss.

They got to see Austin do this each week and his popularity soared.

Without the screwjob, Vince would have never been an on air character and that feud would not have happened.

Not saying Austin wouldn't have been a star, but nowhere near what he went on to be.

geeky

I don't see any problem changing companies to be frank. Sure, hindsight is 20/20 and we all know WCW became a snakepit, but WWF at the time wasn't much better. For a wrestler at the time, seeing the chance for guaranteed money and an owner prepared to spend money like water to bring other top talent in, switching must have seemed like a great idea. The guys McMahon wanted rid of in particular were just doing what seemed the smart thing.

Some of them handled it in a really bad way, particularly those who just walked out on Nitro without telling WWF (Rick Rude excepted). But in general, for Vince McMahon and WWF management to complain about a lack of loyalty is a bit rich.