Better off not working?

deckydunbar

Dunno if this is correct forum?

I earn 542 euro per week after tax etc. Petrol and lunch adds 50 euro. A chilminder for two kids is 225 euro. What I'd get on dole is about 200 euro? So I'm basically getting up to let someone else mind my kids for about 12 euro a day! I reckon I could earn that from entertainment stuff I can do, no problem, particularly with all that time at home.. Hell, I'd deliver pizzas one night a week to make up difference! My wife also works but all her monthly wage pays bills.
1. Am I mad in the head working?
2. Do you need to get laid off to get dole?
3. If so, how do I get laid off without handing in notice?! I don't need stress of crummy job for 12 euro a day
2.

JuliusCaesar

Does your job pay into a pension?
Can you bring lunches in with you to save the cost?
Would you go nuts looking after 2 kids, even if you love them, all day?
What would your wife think?
Would you do all the housework to your wife's satisfaction?
Do you enjoy your job at all? Any chance of a raise?
If you do it, and want to go back working again, how would your unemployed/househusband days look to an employer? Would you lose out on wages? Or be behind on technology etc?

Just a few questions for you.

deckydunbar

No pension.
Only spend 3 euro day on lunch so wouldn't save much.
Would go nuts with kids but better than a stranger!
Wife agrees with me.
Housework no probs.
Asked for raise last month. No chance. It's a handy enough office number but a huge step down from previous jobs and qualifications. Wouldn't miss it.
Don't care about losing out on technology etc.

Basically I think I could make up the difference from writing and freelance marketing nixers.

S23

I can most certainly see your point. However, I presume you will want to get back to employment at some stage in the future so the hole in your record will not help.

Also, you talk about making up the difference with writing and freelance marketing nixers? Now my knowledge of the scope for freelance marketing nixers is limited but I'm curious as to what type of writing it is you think you can pick up so easily and how much money you think you can make from it?

D-Generate

As far as I know, unless you are being offered redundancy then you will not be entitled to welfare if you just quit.

Also it will be harder for you to find employment if you do decide to return to work having been out of work for a while. Finally your wife might just get a little bit pissed off of you for thinking you can stop working whilst she has to continue working to pay the bills. Just suck it up and get on with things.

deckydunbar

S23, already do freelance stuff in local area. Reckon there's actually scope with small local businesses for small marketing projects. Meeting RTE to tomorrow about writing something for tv for next few months (minute per episode). Budget's tight but should be a few quid in it. Basically I have faith in my own earning potential.

D Generate, you reckon it's worth pottering on for 12 quid while I can't afford coal or kids doctors while dole people get it all handed to them? Just sick of it and it'll be even worse when tax goes up in next budget

dan_d

OP....you're assuming the dole and benefits will remain at that level indefinitely.
Just a thought.

S23

deckydunbar wrote: »

S23, already do freelance stuff in local area. Reckon there's actually scope with small local businesses for small marketing projects. Meeting RTE to tomorrow about writing something for tv for next few months (minute per episode). Budget's tight but should be a few quid in it. Basically I have faith in my own earning potential.

D Generate, you reckon it's worth pottering on for 12 quid while I can't afford coal or kids doctors while dole people get it all handed to them? Just sick of it and it'll be even worse when tax goes up in next budget

My advice is to pursue these things until they become a bit more concrete. See what it is you are earning from them. See if you can develop your career as a writer. I presume you have some previous credentials since they don't just take people in off the street at RTE.

If there are opportunites out there then pursue them but don't jack in your job before anything becomes more permanent or lucrative.
Chase up those local businesses about those marketing projects too.

I can tell you, it takes a long, long time to become firmly established as a writer of any kind in this country. Whatever field, whatever genre, until you are 'in' you are expendable. And freelancers/part timers/occasional writers come and go very easily.

I write for a living and if I relied solely on maintaing the level of freelance work that I was doing up until, for example, 6 months ago then I'd be up sh*t creek right now.

So keep expanding your revenue streams. Keep building that reputation but hang onto your job. You may well need it more than you think. You may not be entitled to benefits. And even if you do get them I know many people that are only slated to receive them for a limited period (9-12-18 months etc..)

Also, you are going to want to work again so walking out on a job will impact on your prospects when (and it may be a while granted) things pick up here again. Lets pretend the economy recovered and was back on its feet tomorrow. You're going to have an overload of applicants for all those good higher paid jobs that are available again and a gap in your employment record won't help you one bit when that situation arises.

I know its a grind, I know its not working out for you like you want it to but these are tough times and I think you should keep plugging away. Hopefully you can get some of your marketing strategies up and running or your career as a writer in full swing and then quitting your job will be a lot more viable. Until then, I'd just tough it out.

Best of luck to you whatever you choose though

LegacyUser

Hi,

I look at the boards from time to time and I do notice some common themes being expressed by people when a question such as the OP's is posed.

Firstly I feel there is a feeling out there that it is not socially acceptable for a man to quit his job and look after his kids. Lets switch the genders for a moment on the OP's post. I think its a fair bet that if the OP were female there would be much female support for the OP's decision to quit. 12 Euro in the difference each day? I say OP, give it a go.

Secondly, I feel that people out there can be so negative when someone expresses and interest in pursuing a creative/artistic occupation. For example in one of the above posters replies, I can sense a sarcasm in their question of :

"Now my knowledge of the scope for freelance marketing nixers is limited but I'm curious as to what type of writing it is you think you can pick up so easily and how much money you think you can make from it?"


Is it me or is there a general consensus out there that people should only pursue mundane repetitive jobs in a corporate environment?

Please people, the good things in this world were not created by dispirited meek followers. Look around at the world and the beautiful works of art & culture that have been created by human beings, what type of person created these? A person with ingenuity and enterprise, thats who. All those who have achieved something of substance have taken those risks in their lives. A monkey can sit in an office chair all his life for peanuts. There will always be a risk of failure in this life. Its more a question of can the OP live with themselves in their current situation.


So OP, I for one back your decision. Take the chance, dare to achieve some of your dreams...

GuinnessTony

If the OP was a women would the answers be the same?;)

I'm in the states so you may just ignore me completely but,

When you are figuring out what you would save by staying home
make sure you consider clothing expenses, take out meals because you are too tired to cook diner (Once or twice a week in many cases), and wear and tear on the vehicle. Also lost time with the family and the problems associated with someone else raising your kids have a "cost".

As for the hole in your record, you stayed home to take care of the family and many people will have this hole in their record when this downturn ends. At least you have a good "excuse." Can you use this time off to update\improve your skill set?

"I can't afford coal or kids doctors while dole people get it all handed to them" - this does get very frustrating. I am currently self\un employed and qualify for nothing even though I payed a small fortune into the system over the years. I went to the dentist and did not get an xray because of the cost. The tech was complaining to me how those on the state plan get everything for free and how rediculous it was.

The main issue is how to get laid off so that you can get on the dole.

cafecolour

I think you have to wait 9 weeks to get the dole if you quit. Also, I'm not sure you get same rate as a single person (200) if you're married.

Honestly, if you had posted something like "I want to quit my job to take care of my kids until their school age. It might be a tight budget, but I think it's worth it and my wife supports this" - I'd quickly say go for it.

The way you've phrased it "I don't need the stress for 12 euros a week" - it makes it seem like getting out of your job is the primary motivation and wanting to care for your kids is afterthought. And that I'm not sure you given as much thought to how much work childminding will be.

Anyway, I'd give a good look at the practicalities and your motivations. And check the realities of the dole (what you'll get, how long it will take to process). It certainly can work - My sister's husband stays home to take care of the kids (and do almost all the housework, bar cooking dinner, which my sister does), both because they prefer it and because any wage he got would equal that of the childminder.

deckydunbar

deckydunbar wrote: »

No pension.
Only spend 3 euro day on lunch so wouldn't save much.

if you're currently on 12 euro (net) then this is an extra quarter
it's also 60 euro a month
3 euro might not seem like much but a whole loaf of bread is 1.70

uoluol

You wouldn't be able to claim dole, as you have to be available and looking for full time employment - and from what you are saying you are not, as you have difficulty with your child minding arrangments.

Would you have an entilement to FIS? Are the children nearing school age - when cost of childcare would substantially reduce?

Honestly, I understand your frustrations, but you would be mad to give up work. To be unemployed is horrible, can be mind numbing boring, and it can be very hard to motivate yourself. It is soul destroying.

Could you explore possiblities of increasing your earning potential? Maybe take up that evening job delivering pizzas, even if just for a short while. How about contacting MABS, they will be able to advise you on budgeting, they are not just for people who are in complete dire straits. Could you maybe contact local colleges and see about running some evening classes, given your background?

Good luck!

munstergirl

The grass always sounds greener.
What happens if you hate minding kids all the time, thats full time job.
What if they hate you minding them!
Maybe hate is the wrong word,
So you have enough stamps, be prepared to wait 9 weeks earning nothing, you get 200 jsb. Then after 1 year you get means tested, how much does wife earn? How much savings do you have?
What happens (god forbid) your wife gets sick?
I would stay working if i had a choice just for sanity.

Idbatterim

If you went to your boss and said, look I want to quit, can you make me redundant? So that way you would be entitled to redundancy money and dole. Id say alot of current employers would jump at this opportunity! Then again i dont know what line your in or your employers view / circumstances... The problem cost is the childcare, what age are your kids? bear in mind they wont need minding forever, could either your or your wifes relatives or friends help out? It may sound appealing quitting the job, but you might lose your mind after a few days / weeks! Also it will be harder to get back into the labor force...

How Strange

If you want to give up your job to become the primary caregiver then go ahead. Lot's of women do it when it doesn't make financial sense to work and then have the additional stress of juggling home and work life.

However, before you give up your job just make sure you're aware of the consequences. You probably will feel isolated and lonely as you won't have the daily adult company that you're used to in the office. Alot of women say the same thing when they stop working and stay at home. Also, the social welfare entitlements will most likely be cut in the near future so you won't always be getting €200 per week. Finally, are you sure you won't tto go back to work if either/both of the above come to pass? Your chances of getting another job will be very slim for the next few years.

iguana

Afaik you will only get unemployment benefit for 9 months and after that you go on to unemployment assistance which is means tested. You may get very little, if anything at all, once your wife's income is taken into account.

deisemum

I'm not up on social welfare benefits apart from knowing that as a self-employed person I don't count but are you supposed to show that you're available for work and are looking for work and isn't there a chance you may be put on a training course?

Also don't forget if you're at home looking after your children then your heating and electricity bills will be a hell of a lot dearer.

S23

Onlooker99 wrote: »

Secondly, I feel that people out there can be so negative when someone expresses and interest in pursuing a creative/artistic occupation. For example in one of the above posters replies, I can sense a sarcasm in their question of :

"Now my knowledge of the scope for freelance marketing nixers is limited but I'm curious as to what type of writing it is you think you can pick up so easily and how much money you think you can make from it?"

Absolutely no sarcasm. I think you should try reading posts a little more. I asked him, as was revealed in a subsequent post, because I write for a living myself. I know plenty of very talented writers who can't pick up any work at all.

Its not an easy game and I wouldn't be pinning my hopes financially on a writing career until I had something more solid in place if I was the OP. Thats the point I was trying to, and I believe I did, make.

I'd agree with a lot of what was said about being primary care giver for his kids. This is not a sexist thing. I would be saying the same thing to a woman because the motivation here is not to look after the kids its to 'not have the hassle' of working for what nets a low wage

deckydunbar

Ok, things have changed a bit and come to a head since my original post. I'm also being constructively dismissed due to a family member of owner coming in over my head with no relevant experience. My weekly wage is now 539 euro. Childminder is now 175 euro. Petrol to work is 60 euro. If I was to get dole it'd be 188 euro. My wife would take my tax credits, adding about 110 euro to her weekly wage. As you can see, financially it's not worth working there. I'm also making about a grand a month nixers with writing etc. that I could easily double without a day job. What should I do?

mood

As far as I know you won't get any dole for months if you give up a job. And your dole would be means tested. I know people who get nothing at all because of that their other half earns.

Why not try to get a better job?

LegacyUser

Go in and ask them to sack you. Don't work for €12 a day, madness.

deckydunbar

mood wrote: »

As far as I know you won't get any dole for months if you give up a job. And your dole would be means texted. I know people who get nothing at all because of that their other half earns.

Why not try to get a better job?

No payments for 12 weeks if you leave. I was hoping to get laid off or even asking to be.

In the medium term I'd use unemployment to get assistance setting up my own business as the nixers could potentially provide a decent income.

deckydunbar

Oh, and I rang dole office who said it's not means tested if I was working enough in 09 (I was). This changes after 9-12 months but my wife's wages just covers the bills, and I think they take outgoings into account.

mood

deckydunbar wrote: »

No payments for 12 weeks if you leave. I was hoping to get laid off or even asking to be.

In the medium term I'd use unemployment to get assistance setting up my own business as the nixers could potentially provide a decent income.

I think you need to be long term unemployed for this. And I know someone who got turn down any assistance! It all very risky I think.

Why not try to get a better paid job and continue to do nixers?

What age are the kids and who will mind them while you write?

deckydunbar

Mood, it's hardly risky @ a tenner a day? If even.

Kids are 4 and 1 and a half. Do writing in evenings.

mood

deckydunbar wrote: »

Mood, it's hardly risky @ a tenner a day? If even.

Kids are 4 and 1 and a half. Do writing in evenings.

It is risky. You might get no social welfare when you are means tested. If that happens how will you manage?

And I assume the 4 year old will start school in sept so child care costs will lower then.

deckydunbar

I would check if I'd get assistance when means-tested before doing anything hasty. I've to call some inspector tomorrow. It just kills me handing kids over to stranger every day to drive to earn a tenner, when I could be exploiting my talents to the maximum from home. Do you not think it's crazy working for, at most, a tenner a day?

LegacyUser

Be very careful. The dole folks are keyed in to people turning up in their office with kids in tow. Who will look after the kids when you are claiming?
Turn up there once with the kids and they will be all over you and your claim to be 'available and actively looking for work'.
Also, if you do get caught doing a nixer they will hit you for all the back payments and that will hurt. Believe me!
All it takes is one person to report you or one client to list your name in their accounts.

mood

deckydunbar wrote: »

I would check if I'd get assistance when means-tested before doing anything hasty. I've to call some inspector tomorrow. It just kills me handing kids over to stranger every day to drive to earn a tenner, when I could be exploiting my talents to the maximum from home. Do you not think it's crazy working for, at most, a tenner a day?

In the short term it is crap but long term you maybe better off. Trying to get back into employment after a long stint on the dole could be extremely difficult. And if you don't get the dole you think you will you will be worse off.

I don't know why you won't try to find a better job!

deckydunbar

I have tried to get a better job! But I have sorta found a niche with my nixers, where I could earn about 5k per month if I'd a bit of time to put into it. This is what I want to do. I've taken it as far as I can whilst maintaining a day job.

mood

Sounds like you have made you mind up.

Good luck. I hope it turns out well.

deckydunbar

You say "long term" may be better off. When kids are grown up and I'm stuck on same salary? as I've been informed in no uncertain terms that's there's no room for growth or promotion now owner's family member has been foisted in.

deckydunbar

mood wrote: »

Sounds like you have made you mind up.

Good luck. I hope it turns out well.

Haha, thanks. I'm actually on here looking for some downsides to it, so thanks!

mood

deckydunbar wrote: »

You say "long term" may be better off. When kids are grown up and I'm stuck on same salary? as I've been informed in no uncertain terms that's there's no room for growth or promotion now owner's family member has been foisted in.

I meant you could get a better job in the near future (obviously could take a while in the current climate). I didn't mean to imply you should stay in your current job until you are 65!

Kalimah

If you're sure that you can make money from the writing then great go ahead. I'll give you my own experience for what it's worth. Left well paid bank job in the 90s. No dole as I took a redundancy package and had 3 kids. Fast forward a few years and the kids were in school. There was no way I could go back to work earning what I had in the past. It was like starting over from scratch. That's the only downside. I'll never be on a salary like that again. If I had stayed where I was I'd be on 45k and a candidate for an asylum! Instead I earn 17k for a part time job in an NGO. I couldn't be happier. Make your decision with all the information you have and don't look back.

MissFlitworth

deckydunbar wrote: »

Haha, thanks. I'm actually on here looking for some downsides to it, so thanks!

Ok, here're some downsides

- Nixers & social welfare = welfare fraud. People are getting happier to report this as their earnings are squeezed
- You genuinely may end up getting eff all when your 9 months JSB are up, your wifes earnings will be taken into account and even with all your outgoings you could end up with quite a cut
- Job Seekers Benefit isn't intended to help people out because their outgoings are barely covered by what they earn. You're supposed to be actively looking for a job while you're on it, if you aren't and are taking the time to look after your kids & write then, technically, you are committing welfare fraud (even if you are unlikely to be caught out for this)

I'm not judging you but what you're thinking of doing is fraud & isn't a guaranteed income

ladysarastro

If your married and your wife is working then after 12 months your stamps will run out and when your asessed you could come out with next to nothing

purity

Op to be frank your wages are very good in a recession I have a good job but don't get paid as much, however you may feel it's pointless as you have to be selfless with your wage. Bare in mind the dole will be far less and though you won't have to pay a child minder sometimes working is good for your sanity. You can if temporary say when contact renewal is due don't sign your contract or if permanent leave due to personal reasons. You can get the dole however you must wait 9 weeks before payment.

LegacyUser

MissFlitworth wrote: »

Ok, here're some downsides

- Nixers & social welfare = welfare fraud. People are getting happier to report this as their earnings are squeezed
- You genuinely may end up getting eff all when your 9 months JSB are up, your wifes earnings will be taken into account and even with all your outgoings you could end up with quite a cut
- Job Seekers Benefit isn't intended to help people out because their outgoings are barely covered by what they earn. You're supposed to be actively looking for a job while you're on it, if you aren't and are taking the time to look after your kids & write then, technically, you are committing welfare fraud (even if you are unlikely to be caught out for this)

I'm not judging you but what you're thinking of doing is fraud & isn't a guaranteed income

+1

what you could do is firstly investigate very thoroughly the max potential you could earn from your nixers as an employment full time.

If I knew you were claiming dole and making 5k a month on the sly I wouldn't hesitate to report you for welfare fraud myself.

you have an opportunity to avoid the SW route altogether by sticking with your job (ok it's crap pay, but it's a job that gives you dignity in earnings and something to do) and actively investing not in writing but in setting up the business while still working - there is going to be access to loans.

that imo would be the best route to take. don't forget you'll have two children to supervise during the day, so you may not get what you expect done, as I assume you would be forging the cost of childcare and taking that responsibility on yourself, and going to SW office to sign on and the post office, you may have to find means to have your children minded, depending on your situation.

grass may be greener on the other side, but may not be.

I would think though making sure the nixers thing is 100% solid and what you can achieve with that is better done with security of a job where you have a motivating factor (pay, job role dissatisfaction) than stuck with the stresses of the dole or pressures should you not receive entitlements.

ash23

But you won't be eligible to claim Job Seekers if you aren't actively seeking work? And you won't be as you will be minding the kids.
Plus you can't do "nixers" without declaring them and your benefits will be stopped.

Basically, from your posts you shouldn't be counting in the allowance you may get as you actually aren't entitled to claim it if your reason for being at home is minding the kids with the intent of working from home.

It barely pays me to work either (and I could give up as a single parent - I actually earn less than you) but I will never get anywhere on benefits and at least I have the potential to increase my earning power here as opposed to at home.

Tread carefully as what you want to do is benefit fraud by the sounds of things.

dan_d

I am on the dole.

It's (not to be crude) sh&*e.

No matter how much easier you think it would be, how much nicer, how much more you'd have - you don't.You're stuck solid. You get the bare minimum if you've paid into the system, you tend to not be entitled to assistance of any sort until you're at least 3 months unemployed - sorry, 3 months in receipt of SW. If you leave your job, you've to wait 9 weeks before you can claim.And that doesn't count the 2-? number of weeks you'll have to wait while they "process your claim". Btw, that happens whether you're made redundant or whether you leave. They still have huge delays.Plus all these "education programmes" and "employment assistance" things only kick in after 3, if not 9, months in receipt of SW.And even then that doesn't mean you'll be approved for them.

I heard on the radio today that Revenue are cracking down on cash jobs....bear that in mind.

Quite honestly OP, it's boring, frustrating, soul-destroying, infuriating, embarassing and lonely.Since you won't be job hunting, it'll probably just be boring and lonely. Which is added to the fact that you're scraping along on the bare minimum of money.it has an impact on your mental health like you can't imagine.

Think very,very long and hard before you do whatever you're going to do OP, because it's a hell of a lot harder to get back into the work force than it is to get out of it. I'm sorry to sound like I'm raining on your parade here, but this whole media hysteria of "people not working because they're better off on the dole" is blown WAY out of proportion, particularly if you're the kind of person who is used to working. It's godawful, and don't kid yourself otherwise.

My advice to you would be that if you feel your nixers can earn you money, then give up your job, go do them. Don't involve the dole in it. And for the love of god don't leave a job to go on the dole, that's insane.

miec

Hi Op

To be honest I get the same as you but I have a single income (no partner/ husband) half my money goes on rent and travel, the rest on bills and food, I cannot afford a car or holidays but fair enough, I am glad to be working. Like you I want to have a full time career as a writer, I get frustrated at the fact that I have so little writing time but I do not think it is fair to cheat the welfare system and let us be frank, the taxpayer and just about everyone you know, I think people lose sight that when you cheat 'the system' you are in fact cheating your friends, neighbours, family and so forth because the cuts have to be made somewhere. Also as Dan_d says being on the dole is hard, boring, lonely etc. You are onto a good thing as things stand and you should be celebrating your successes, (I know I would be thrilled to be making a grand a month on writing) that is a fantastic success.

It is up to yourself at the end of the day but please don't cheat the system because you will be cheating all of us.

OP, dole is crap.. I went demented during my two months on it a few years ago. And that was with xbox, drinking, rec drugs and plenty of friends around.. If all you have every day is minding your kids and waiting for your wife to come home from work, you'll quickly tire of it.

The money part is irrelevant compared to the massive change in your life.

mood

OP maybe you should look at this thread.

This woman is now getting no social welfare because of her OH earnings and the same will probably happen you.

And if you earn so much writing why do you feel you need social welfare as well? It's not right to rip off the system.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056245904

JDD

Hi, I've just scanned this thread but...You'll be entitled to full unemployment benefit for a year, after that you'll be means tested. If your wife is earning over €30k a year, you'll get about €30 a week in benefit. I don't think the family outgoings are taken into account. My friend's partner was made redundant a year and a half ago. They survived fairly well on her income and his dole, but once the year was up and he was means tested his dole dropped to €22 a week. Her full income goes to pay the rent, bills and food, and they have a 2 year old son also. He has been unable to find another job. She's now pregnant with their second child and her job doesn't pay maternity benefit, so she's only entitled to the social welfare benefit. You'd think at this stage his means test would be reviewed since she's only getting social welfare, but under the rules he's now considered her "dependent", which means his dole has increased to €50 a week.They're emigrating to Australia in three months.I would be very wary about quitting your job as you don't know what circumstances you will be in in a years time. Full dole might cover you for the first 12 months, but after that you'd want to have a full replacement income coming from somewhere - or be able to happily survive on your wife's income - as the dole will plummet once you are means tested.

thecookingapple

I dont mean to come across as a great moralist as i am far from it, but really i would rather flip burgers for a living than have my children see me depend on social welfare.