Anyone know the technicalities of licensing?

joker77

I'm interested in having a discussion about it, with someone who has experience of the licensing laws. Have a few questions, like what's involved in getting a license for a nightclub. As far as I know, there used to be such a thing as a dance license - does this still exist?

If you're renting a place for the night this is all taken care of, but I'm more interested in a place that hasn't previously been used for anything like that.

Are all the licensing laws just around the sale of alcohol? Or is there more for a venue that has music playing late at night?

ED E

Its all to do with the drink from my layman's knowledge.

Public Liability is another big thing to look out for. As is the need for Planning Permission if you intend to change the use of a building in some cases.

ianuss

Danny Tenaglia's residency, Be Yourself, in NY, never had a beer license. He played to a packed house every Saturday night/Sunday morning!

Just saying, booze isn't everything!

Is mise le key

There is a bit to it alright aside from alcohol law & i have read it all with nothing in it that isnt easy to address...........you do need to have the local superintendant onside of whatever district you running it in & at least one months notice given.........http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1935/en/act/pub/0002/index.html

joker77

Is mise le key wrote: »

There is a bit to it alright aside from alcohol law & i have read it all with nothing in it that isnt easy to address...........you do need to have the local superintendant onside of whatever district you running it in & at least one months notice given.........http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1935/en/act/pub/0002/index.html

Cheers - that's something like what I was looking for alright.

There's nothing in it about opening / closing times - where would this be?

Is mise le key

joker77 wrote: »

Cheers - that's something like what I was looking for alright.

There's nothing in it about opening / closing times - where would this be?

Im not sure but it may be covered in the liquor licensing laws what your after....................http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Publication%20of%20Intoxicating%20Liquor%20Bill%202008

Sacred_git

ianuss wrote: »

Danny Tenaglia's residency, Be Yourself, in NY, never had a beer license. He played to a packed house every Saturday night/Sunday morning!

Just saying, booze isn't everything!

great a disco full of spanish and italians:rolleyes:

Is mise le key

ianuss wrote: »

Danny Tenaglia's residency, Be Yourself, in NY, never had a beer license. He played to a packed house every Saturday night/Sunday morning!

Just saying, booze isn't everything!

The only thing is that like i outlined in my post above in accordance with the Dance hall act of 1935 you have to have the local superintendant on side before a court will grant you a license & a gig that proposes to have no alcohol with Rave music playing would be cancelled before its even started!!!!!............No doubt it would be full just as the OLYMPIC, ASYLUM, SIDES was for years with no alcohol but for the very reasons theses Raves were closed down would be the reasons a license would not be granted today...............we seen it with the attempted Awakening gig in the ASYLUM in 2008 when the Gardai were having none of it no matter what................NY is a different world to dublin.

joker77

Is mise le key wrote: »

Im not sure but it may be covered in the liquor licensing laws what your after....................http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Publication%20of%20Intoxicating%20Liquor%20Bill%202008

Cheers - will take a read.

What I'm also interested in finding out is what time a dance-licensed club has to close that does not sell liquor.

VinylJunkie

joker77 wrote: »

Cheers - will take a read.

What I'm also interested in finding out is what time a dance-licensed club has to close that does not sell liquor.

i.e A headshop with music playing.

g5fd6ow0hseima

This topic has came up a few times before, and ive never really seen a definite answer but,

why is it that some nightclubs serve well beyond 2.30 at the weekends? Is there special licence I dont know about or is it just places flaunting the law?

ianuss

Luna Small Doorknob wrote: »

This topic has came up a few times before, and ive never really seen a definite answer but,

why is it that some nightclubs serve well beyond 2.30 at the weekends? Is there special licence I dont know about or is it just places flaunting the law?

C*pp*rs by any chance????? Run for, and frequented by huge amounts of Guards????

Zascar

Joker are you starting a new nightclub? Cool!

joker77

VinylJunkie wrote: »

i.e A headshop with music playing.

ha ha - good one

Zascar wrote: »

Joker are you starting a new nightclub? Cool!

Nothing that ambitious no. I'm just sick of Dublin as it is at the moment, and want to know more on the legal technicalities of nightclubs. For example, if a club has to stop serving alcohol at 2.30 - what's stopping them shutting the bar and serving non-alcoholic drinks / food for another couple of hours while still having music playing? Is it purely that most club owners are hungry money grabbing c*nts, and it's not worth it financially to stay open later if the bar is shut?

The thing about a nightclub with no booze is that while it could be a great late night dance venue, it would attract a lot of bad attention if everyone was out of their minds on drugs - and would shut down pretty sharpish. Also - how much would you have to charge in? If there's no bar then where's the money coming from? You're not going to make a lot not selling anything at the bar - even if it was soft drinks you wouldn't make much - people aren't going to lash 3 or 4 soft drinks an hour like they would with booze.

Another question - if you have a club with no booze license, is there any legal restriction with people bringing in their own beer? (cans obviously - nobody would be allowed bring in glass bottles)

joker77

Luna Small Doorknob wrote: »

why is it that some nightclubs serve well beyond 2.30 at the weekends? Is there special licence I dont know about or is it just places flaunting the law?

I'm under the impression there must be some special licenses - how come the Casinos and Lap Dancing clubs can stay open till all hours?

It's a real bee in my bonnet at the moment - what does it say about our f*cked up little society, whereby if you're out in town on a Friday or Saturday night and want to go for a dance or a late drink after 2.30 - you either have to go and gamble in a Casino, or pay to watch poor foreign girls take their clothes off for money in a Lap Dancing Club?

Really annoys me. There's SO much wrong with the current situation.

ianuss

joker77 wrote: »

I'm under the impression there must be some special licenses - how come the Casinos and Lap Dancing clubs can stay open till all hours?

They're 'private members' clubs, i.e., not strictly open to the public

joker77

ianuss wrote: »

They're 'private members' clubs, i.e., not strictly open to the public

Ok then, what's stopping someone just opening a nightclub - calling it a 'private members' club, and serving booze till 6am?

Is mise le key

joker77 wrote: »

Another question - if you have a club with no booze license, is there any legal restriction with people bringing in their own beer? (cans obviously - nobody would be allowed bring in glass bottles)

I cant reference something in particular here but my understanding which i may be corrected on is that a public house is granted not only a license to sell alcohol but that it is a designated place that alcohol can be consumed in a public place, so you could not have people bring in their own beer without a license to consume on the premises.

Is mise le key

joker77 wrote: »

Ok then, what's stopping someone just opening a nightclub - calling it a 'private members' club, and serving booze till 6am?

Before the ASYLUM was closed due to the drug abuse & the shooting that took place it began issuing membership cards to all that wanted to come into the place & said it was a private members club to get around the law that way............but it was closed down in 2008 at the Awakening even though it was an invite only private party..........all things said you have to have the superintendant on side for any venue to be a runner as he only has to apply to a judge with his reasons for beleiving it will not be observing & or enforcing the law & he will be granted special powers to stop any venue from opening..........the casinos etc have deep pockets & most likley can legally challenge in court a superintendants reasons for requesting a venue to be stopped from opening......also they probably have strict rules & policys already in place for the running of such establishments that have been scrutinised by their legal teams for flaws.

thecommander

joker77 wrote: »

Ok then, what's stopping someone just opening a nightclub - calling it a 'private members' club, and serving booze till 6am?

Casinos & lapdancing clubs dont sell alcohol, it is provided to their guests for free. Its not really free, you have to be gambling etc to avail of it but thats how they get around it.

joker77

Is mise le key wrote: »

Before the ASYLUM was closed due to the drug abuse & the shooting that took place it began issuing membership cards to all that wanted to come into the place & said it was a private members club to get around the law that way............but it was closed down in 2008 at the Awakening even though it was an invite only private party..........all things said you have to have the superintendant on side for any venue to be a runner as he only has to apply to a judge with his reasons for beleiving it will not be observing & or enforcing the law & he will be granted special powers to stop any venue from opening..........the casinos etc have deep pockets & most likley can legally challenge in court a superintendants reasons for requesting a venue to be stopped from opening......also they probably have strict rules & policys already in place for the running of such establishments that have been scrutinised by their legal teams for flaws.

Quick question - roughly what was the capacity of the Asylum, and how much did they charge in?

Is mise le key

joker77 wrote: »

Quick question - roughly what was the capacity of the Asylum, and how much did they charge in?

I would have a guess at around 800 to 1000.........At the start of the video of primetime from back then posted over on the ASYLUM/OLDSKOOL thread the owner when being interviewed said they would have over 600 people there.........from my memory it was always jammed so i would reckon closer to 800 upwards........the price in would vary from £10 near the end of its time open to £5 at the start & the bouncers doing deals on the door for groups of a few of ya which could get ya in for about £4 sometimes but that money was just pocketed by the bouncers so would take from the overall profit of the venue..........most likley the place was taking in about £7000.00 a week on the doors & whatever else then on the cool pops, cloakroom while the Narcs being sold was probably matching that also.........thats just my guesstimate

EuskalHerria

I'd imagine the major cost to this would be to ensure the place. I can only imagine that a massive amount of money is needed to insure a place where people will either be drinking or assumed by an assessor to be drunk.

There needs to be a serious discussion with those who have the power to change club closing times. Having everyone pouring out onto the streets at the same time is a recipe for disaster and I'm sure we all have our own tales of **** happening after a nightclub shuts up shop and throws everyone onto the streets. Measures were taken in England not so long ago and figures for crime relating to alcohol were down afterwards.

I don't know why the discussion on longer opening hours for pubs or clubs seems to be such a taboo subject.

Be very careful about legislative provisions allowing for the confiscation of equipment. Even if no alcohol is sold, even if insurance is secured (or everyone signs a waiver, which is no guarantee), even if there are no neighbours to complain, the Gardai can go into dances that do not have a dance licence and confiscate any equipment.

I understand it's the main legislation used to target illegal 'raves', while everyone would be willing to chance it on and hope for the best, not too many are willing to put their equipment on the line...

http://193.178.1.79/1997/en/act/pub/0033/print.html

DaveyDave

So it's possible for a club to stay open past 2:30? 2:30 is bloody ridiculous, a lot of clubs only open at 11 so you get there around 12 then you're ****ed out at 2:30.

I was at an underground rave the other day that went on til 8am it was deadly, better than some clubs and all. A real DJ, proper Pioneer gear, lasers and a bar.

EuskalHerria

I think this needs a little update:D

Public Dance Halls Act, 1935

(2) Every person who shall prevent or attempt to prevent a member of the Gárda Síochána from exercising, or obstruct or attempt to obstruct any such member in the exercise of, a power vested in such member by virtue of this section shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding five pounds.

DaveyDave

DaveyDave wrote: »

So it's possible for a club to stay open past 2:30? 2:30 is bloody ridiculous, a lot of clubs only open at 11 so you get there around 12 then you're ****ed out at 2:30.

Leeson Street was pretty much illegal throughout its heyday in the 70s and 80s, Gardai turned a blind eye because all the drinkers were concentrated in one area and easier to police, or so the story went.

DaveyDave wrote: »

I was at an underground rave the other day that went on til 8am it was deadly, better than some clubs and all. A real DJ, proper Pioneer gear, lasers and a bar.

Yes, they are better, but if someone is wondering what's the worst that can happen, individuals can be picked up under Public Order acts, djs and organisers can find all their gear and lasers lifted and impounded, the person running the bar in their own trouble for breach of liquor licensing law and the landowner facing claims for any accidents. They are great, and they are popular around my part of the world, but the Gardai know their powers too. have been at ones where the Gardai have actually searched punters going in but left them go ahead, on the basis presumably that it would have been more hassle to shut them down. Lots will depend on your local Gardai too.

electrogrimey

A big problem with places opening after 3am is the laws about public disturbance and quietness. Places like the Seomra Spraoi, which, if they wanted, could have huge raves with no alcohol until 5am, but because of their neighbours, they can't have loud music very late. The Bernard Shaw has the same problem, they can't get a late license because of their neighbours.

Ideal scenario is this: somewhere in a completely commercial part of town, run by people who don't care about money, with a liquor license and a dance license, close the bar at 2am, and stay open until 6am (not letting anyone else in after 2 or so, so not to have everyone from town pile in when their shítty club closes). Charge €10 in (I'd be happy to pay that for a club like that), and have quite strict bouncers and a good cooperation with the police, so that people can take drugs, but anyone selling or off their heads will get turfed out.

ED E

With the prices of soft drinks in dublin pubs and clubs you'd easily make a few bob:rolleyes:

electrogrimey

electrogrimey wrote: »

Ideal scenario is this: somewhere in a completely commercial part of town, run by people who don't care about money, with a liquor license and a dance license, close the bar at 2am, and stay open until 6am (not letting anyone else in after 2 or so, so not to have everyone from town pile in when their shítty club closes).

Ideally yeah, but aint gonna happen, noone gonna fork out 150k for a liquor licence and 'not care about the money', rival premises will object to the dance licence (furthermore liquor licensing provides for 'drinking up time' after serving, you can't just keep a place open as long as the bar is shut).

The best thing is to stick raves on in the middle of nowhere and hope the Gardai are too busy busting the alcopop and bud drinkers in the local town to really care. If they arrive, just have a plan to shift stuff out of there pronto. Tried and trusted. Will remain illegal of course, and risky, but sure that's half the fun...