looking for cheap 4x4

thehorse

looking for advice....

im looking to spend between 2-3k on a cheap 4x4 to use as a run around.

dont want anything more than a 2litre engine, hence im looking at freelanders....are they any good ?...

what would you guys recommend in that price range ?

thanks

gbee

None of these 4x4s are any good whatsoever as 'runarounds'. They are not overtly comfortable, difficult to park & judge and heavy on the gogo fluid and heavy on tax [non commercial].

If you want a fun vehicle, that's another story.

thehorse

i want something that i can use for pulling a trailer, put the dogs in the back as well. I also want something that my wife can drive.

a freelander seems to be the only 4x4 that falls in to my budget.

are they any good ?

MrFoxman360

thehorse wrote: »

im looking at freelanders....are they any good ?...

No...... would be the short answer to that, personally I don't believe that they are a well designed or well built jeep, Quality of components seem poor enough, they seem to give more hassle than other comparable models and they're not that comfortable either.

Hard to say what is a good option for you, but you should pick up something decent for that money. Buy on condition and not on the reg plate as a lot of people seem to, you will get much better service out of a good old jeep than a newer one that has been dogged.

Personally I believe there is little to match Japanese engineering, Suzuki Jimney's and Vitaras, have small engines, Daihatsu Sportrack, they're 1.6 petrol I think, Pajero Pinnin maybe, not sure how practical these are though, they're not as good as cars at the car stuff and not as good as proper jeeps at jeep stuff.

If passengers aren't a problem go for a commercial jeep, which means cheap tax anyway. Not all of the bigger ones are as bad on fuel as you would imagine.

thehorse

you see, im not a person who works in the trade, so i dont think i can buy a commercial one, can i ?.

MrFoxman360

I have had a commercial jeep since I was 17 years old and I'm a teacher! (offically)

thehorse

so how do you insure it then ?...

if i can buy a commercial jeep and insure & tax it cheaply, then id be on for that. is there anything in particular that i need to adhere to before i buy one ?.

MrFoxman360

Commercial insurance but for my own use, Social domestic and Pleasure only, Insurance company know that I am a teacher and knew that I was a student before that but didn't have a problem with it (FBD and then Quinn).... Well I think AXA does, you have to fill out a written porposal form.

Supposedly some counties require a VAT number when taxing a commercial but not mine anyway.

A commercial jeep is the same as a normal one but road tax is not based on engine size, its all the same price for light commercials, not sure what it is now... three hundred and something anway.... one of the lads will know

Nearly all commercial jeeps will have only two seats so bare that in mind and nearly all will not have glass in the sides on rear doors and quarter panels, which makes it harder to see out of. Commercials have to be DOE tested every year rather than NCT'd, makes no difference really. Oh and when you go through a toll bridge you have to (are supposed to :rolleyes:) pay a commercial rate

Then just a matter of picking out one, there are loads of threads on "what jeep to buy" around here

Get an insurance quote before you buy just to make sure.

thehorse

thanks very much for your info, really appreciate it!

Milsey

I think commercial tax is 278 euro for any vehicle. and yes, you don't need to be in a trade to have commercial insurance. If your not use to driving a commercial vehicle it can seem a bit alien as the view can be strange for a while and reversing can be harder and also watch out for a blind spot in the wing mirrors. Some times you can look out back window then in wing mirror and see no one but there could be a car sitting just blind to you. Only a thought.

jwshooter

northern auto trader have a 2002 jimny ,1.3 petrol ,46k on the clock .for 1,900 pounds .

colm_mcm

what could you realstically tow with a Jimny though

coolmoose

Milsey wrote: »

I think commercial tax is 278 euro for any vehicle. and yes, you don't need to be in a trade to have commercial insurance. If your not use to driving a commercial vehicle it can seem a bit alien as the view can be strange for a while and reversing can be harder and also watch out for a blind spot in the wing mirrors. Some times you can look out back window then in wing mirror and see no one but there could be a car sitting just blind to you. Only a thought.

It's €288 pa for a vehicle weighing not more than 3000kg

elius

From a landrover fan ill be honest and stay well clear of freelander's it will nothing more than break your heart.

thehorse

from the advice recieved, i will most definitely stay away from the freelanders.

what other choice do i have ?..i only have €2500 to spend really. I dont really want a 2 litre as tax is too expensive. something to pull a trailer when the need arises and also to be able to put my labrador in the back.

opinions welcome!

Theanswers

buy a Land Cruiser up north and commerialise her, do it yourself... Very little to it!
Reason i say this is because alot of comms down here have been abused, therefore buying a jeep up there (Passenger) usually means less towing/ dogging around has been done.

Also they look much tidier and you do have windows, which can just be tinted. Customs man wont say a word, or just rip pannels off after inspection.

Milsey

colm_mcm wrote: »

what could you realstically tow with a Jimny though

A wheelie bin

Slidey

Theanswers wrote: »

Also they look much tidier and you do have windows, which can just be tinted.

This is not true and if you read any of the threads here on commercialising a jeep you will see how wrong you are.

CJhaughey

thehorse wrote: »

from the advice recieved, i will most definitely stay away from the freelanders.

what other choice do i have ?..i only have €2500 to spend really. I dont really want a 2 litre as tax is too expensive. something to pull a trailer when the need arises and also to be able to put my labrador in the back.

opinions welcome!

You have two choices first off.
A) Commercial and have whatever size engine you want in the 288 tax class.
Passenger which will limit you to smaller engines <2000cc.

Based on what you want, a commercial 4x4 with a 2.8-3l engine would be ideal, small tax, fit the dog in the back and tow a trailer with ease.

Your price bracket will limit you to an older vehicle or a rough newer one.
Old Daihatsus might fit the bill or perhaps a 2.5 Pajero SWB, if you are mechanically inclined possibly a Landrover Series or Disco may well be an option.
What you will have to consider is the cost of maintaining it as well.
Landrovers are cheap for parts (just as well) but japanese models can be pricey for parts.

BeardyGit

I'd consider something like an old model Vitara, with a 1.6 petrol engine. There's a 1.9 version which I think had a Peugeot lump in it, but they're usually commercial and pretty scarce as they were only a UK spec model. The 1.6 won't kill you on tax even as a privately taxed vehicle (which you should have anyway if it's not a business use only vehicle).

Proper hi/low box and handles fine with a trailer of up to about 1 ton behind it anyway - Might handle more, but that's what I would have had behind mine.

Rear sits drop and fold forward leaving plenty of room for the dogs, while still allowing you put a couple of adults in the back if and when you need to.

Something like the following looks about right (nothing to do with me, just taking as an example):

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Suzuki/Vitara/1.6-4x4-/201008197063158/advert?channel=CARS

A deal would be done on that for not much more than your €2500 I reckon.

The one I had returned about 35-37 MPG used as a runabout - Bit of city driving (neat and tidy for parking), light offroading and occasionally towing a trailer etc.

Theanswers

Slidey wrote: »

This is not true and if you read any of the threads here on commercialising a jeep you will see how wrong you are.

I have a commercial jeep with just tinted windows, It can be done and does pass a DOE. Any new jeep still has windows intact generally, therefore just remove the panel. Better visabilty!

Slidey

Theanswers wrote: »

I have a commercial jeep with just tinted windows, It can be done and does pass a DOE. Any new jeep still has windows intact generally, therefore just remove the panel. Better visabilty!

DoE, yes, there is no problem there.

If you are bringing in a jeep and intend on commercialising it before you clear it then just tinting the windows will not suffice.

MrFoxman360

The motor tax office registered my pajero as a commercial with just limo tint on the side windows, woman didn't have a problem with it at all, she wasn't to concerned about all the details, she just wanted to be happy that I wasn't going to go home and put seats back in. Mine was already Irish registered though.

Got it DOE'd afterwards and they didn't mind at all, made no difference,

I have even seen two old shape landcruiser Amazons registered and taxed commercial, but with all the original clear glass in the back, just the floor and seatbelt mounts welded.

There are rules regarding conversions, but what you can get away with varies from palce to place.

Not sure whether this is that relevent to the OP... that Vitara would probably fit the bill nicely:rolleyes:

BeardyGit

MrFoxman360 wrote: »

The motor tax office registered my pajero as a commercial with just limo tint on the side windows, woman didn't have a problem with it at all, she wasn't to concerned about all the details, she just wanted to be happy that I wasn't going to go home and put seats back in. Mine was already Irish registered though.

Got it DOE'd afterwards and they didn't mind at all, made no difference,

I have even seen two old shape landcruiser Amazons registered and taxed commercial, but with all the original clear glass in the back, just the floor and seatbelt mounts welded.

There are rules regarding conversions, but what you can get away with varies from palce to place.

Not sure whether this is that relevent to the OP... that Vitara would probably fit the bill nicely:rolleyes:

The point Slidey's making is that the DOE and motor tax office don't have a problem with windows in the back, but Customs & Excise do. If the vehicle has already been registered as a passenger and you're converting it to commercial, the full VRT will have been paid, so it'll no longer concern C&E what you do with it.

But if you import something as a commercial, thereby getting around paying the full VRT whack, they load extra requirements and restrictions on you before they'll let you through with it. These include metal panelled rear windows (often now bonded inside blacked out glass, a full length metal fixed floor etc.

The difference is that you and those other cruiser owners probably started with Irish registered passenger vehicles, which you commercialised. If you're recommending going up north and bringing one down to commercialise here, there's a much bigger list of things to be done before they'll VRT it at the VRO (not the motor tax office) as a commercial....

Apples and Oranges really.

colm_mcm

any Land Cruiser you get for 2500 will be a shed.

jwshooter

MrFoxman360 wrote: »

The motor tax office registered my pajero as a commercial with just limo tint on the side windows, woman didn't have a problem with it at all, she wasn't to concerned about all the details, she just wanted to be happy that I wasn't going to go home and put seats back in. Mine was already Irish registered though.

Got it DOE'd afterwards and they didn't mind at all, made no difference,

I have even seen two old shape landcruiser Amazons registered and taxed commercial, but with all the original clear glass in the back, just the floor and seatbelt mounts welded.

There are rules regarding conversions, but what you can get away with varies from palce to place.

Not sure whether this is that relevent to the OP... that Vitara would probably fit the bill nicely:rolleyes:

same in wx a very dark tint will do ,seat belt welded up etc

BeardyGit

jwshooter wrote: »

same in wx a very dark tint will do ,seat belt welded up etc

It's the same EVERYWHERE in the republic, as long as the vehicle you're starting out with has been registered and VRT'd in the state as a passenger vehicle first. My discovery has clear windows in the back - No need for tint at all. The seatbelt mounts and rear seat mounting holes were welded up....this was the only things required to satisfy the Motor Tax office.

There's two ways to do this:

1. Buy an already Irish registered passenger vehicle. Remove the seatbelts, weld up the mounting holes, have it weighed and DOE'd and take it to the Motor Tax office for inspection. No more complicated than that. For this scenario you ONLY deal with the Motor Tax office - The VRO office don't care and don't have any part to play in proceedings. They got their money off whoever bought it new as a passenger vehicle in the first place.

2. Buy a foreign registered passenger vehicle. Remove the seatbelts, weld up the mounting holes, fit a full length metal loadspace floor - should be welded, not bolted or removable if you're doing it 'right' and most will check this carefully at inspection, either remove the rear windows and replace with metal panels, or as some have been allowed to do by their VRO's (ask first exactly how they want it done), limo tint the windows and then bond/glue metal panels inside these, if cosmetics are important to you**. The point here is really that the windows SHOULD have been covered with metal. Some folks have got away with a 100% tint and then glueing auto-trim carpet inside that, and have told the VRO inspector that there's metal in between. You might or you might not get away with it, but if you don't, you've wasted time and money trying in the first place....up to you. For vehicles with electric rear windows, disconnect the wiring. For vehicles with manual rear windows, wind them up tight (and ideally tigerseal the window into the seals to prevent it working down and eventually leaking), remove the winder handles etc - You have to render them unusable. The vehicle then needs to be weighed and DOE'd. Note that the DOE won't check for the type of windows and floor etc, but you need to at least have the seatbelts and any seats/mounts out for the test. For this scenario, the VRO are the ones you have to satisfy. The Motor Tax Office will take your money once you get your VLC, but as it will state 'Light Goods' or whatever, they won't inspect it or have ANY say in whether you have windows, tints etc.

** In my experience, this is the only thing that the VRO will entertain in terms of deviating from their list of 'black and white' requirements.

The key point is that there are two different entities you deal with - The VRO and Motor Tax Office. Each want different things, so make sure you understand what they are and who you'll have to deal with.

Starting with an Irish registered passenger vehicle is the easiest way to do this, especially for someone who's not a capable fabricator for the modifications you need to do if you're importing and converting at the same time.

Sorry to repeat the point again, but there's a whole heap of misinformation going around here when it comes to converting to commercial and what you do and don't need to do.

Slidey

Well said.

broro22

just to stir this one:D i know a garage that has converted literally hundreds hundreds of jap imports without even tinting windows(can provide pictures for none believers).