The whole "confidence thing" with girls annoys me

Cop

Hello there, this is the first time I've ever posted here. Anyway, it's a familiar enough topic. Girls loving guys with confidence and all that. It annoys me massively, and frustrates me and all that kind of stuff. This might seem odd at first but hear me out.

Firstly, I agree with the general idea that goes around a lot that women love lads with confidence more than anything else. But here's the problem. From my experience as a pretty sexually frustrated young fella, the lads with the most "confidence" are also usually the biggest pricks and it generally takes a girl to be messed about by him later on to realise it. I don't go up and show myself off to girls at will for one reason. Not because I'm lacking in self-esteem or confidence about myself at all, far from it. I don't do it because it seems brash and over the top to me. I feel like I should talk to a new girl like I would to a new fella. Just be nice and polite and friendly and try and get on with them properly first. But it never works, I never end up getting on very well with girls, I feel many have a generally atrocious judgement of character when it comes to fellas.

Most of my friends are single, and have plenty of trouble getting girls. But they are smart, decent, interesting, funny young men. As far as I'm concerned, they're the best. But like me, they won't go chatting up women and being all "interesting and charming" when they first meet someone because it generally is bull**** and is faked by most. The lads who do it, and get the eyelashes of the ladies all a flutter, would generally be regarded as bollocks (what's the plural of bollocks?) by sound lads.

This might seem like a rather inarticulate ramble, but let me summarise as follows. I think girls can't judge a sound, down to earth fella very often because they are expecting some kind of charisma-dripping, superconfident charmer (which means, to most fellas, being a bit of an arse) and what they generally get from good lads is none of this, just nice, reserved decency.

The girls who don't bother their lazy arses to talk to people they're attracted to, and who are charmed by loud, overly confident (some would say narcissistic) men, are just as bad as those pricks.

It's not a problem though, if you think about it: why would you want to be with a girl like that? You're doing yourself a favour by avoiding them.

LegacyUser

I am a female and am currently single.

If I was out and hoping to meet someone, big, loud and brash is total turn off for me.

I prefer someone i can have a nice conversation with, a laugh with and just be myself and hope they would do the same.

I dont agree that its the over confident ones who are the ones who end up with a date.

Most of us can see through the bravado and know that beneath it all is quite possibly not an ideal match.

Dont give up you and your mates will meet someone whose head wont be turned by such rubbish

cafecolour

Sorry, blaming your girl trouble on all of womankind isn't going to help you much.

If you're looking for a girlfriend, I know plenty of nice, interesting guys who ended up with lovely girlfriends. They did it by meeting them in groups, social circles, house parties, etc. not by pulling them in a club one night. Granted they had some dry spells before the girlfriends, but if you're actually looking for someone you have a connection with, it takes some time.

If you're just complaining because you keep going to dance clubs trying to pull and can't, that's a different animal. They're for being loud and flirty and 'sexy' - not for having a conversation and getting to know someone.

Dark Artist

I know it's annoying that you can't walk up to a girl and say a nice thing and she'll love you for it... but it's all about the game. Initial 'tactics' are necessary. It's unfortunate but that's the reality.

You mentioned that you're sexually frustrated, which puts across that you are in fact looking for someone to have sex with, rather than someone to get to know. Nothing wrong with that, but basically it seems that girls favour the cockier lads for sexual partners and nice guys for friends. Unfortunate but generally accurate. It makes a lot of sense really.

It's really not that hard to act more confident. If you act more confident you'll start believing it yourself - and then there won't be any 'faking', you'll just naturally attract women.

hollis12

Cop wrote: »

Hello there, this is the first time I've ever posted here. Anyway, it's a familiar enough topic. Girls loving guys with confidence and all that. It annoys me massively, and frustrates me and all that kind of stuff. This might seem odd at first but hear me out.

Firstly, I agree with the general idea that goes around a lot that women love lads with confidence more than anything else. But here's the problem. From my experience as a pretty sexually frustrated young fella, the lads with the most "confidence" are also usually the biggest pricks and it generally takes a girl to be messed about by him later on to realise it. I don't go up and show myself off to girls at will for one reason. Not because I'm lacking in self-esteem or confidence about myself at all, far from it. I don't do it because it seems brash and over the top to me. I feel like I should talk to a new girl like I would to a new fella. Just be nice and polite and friendly and try and get on with them properly first. But it never works, I never end up getting on very well with girls, I feel many have a generally atrocious judgement of character when it comes to fellas.

Most of my friends are single, and have plenty of trouble getting girls. But they are smart, decent, interesting, funny young men. As far as I'm concerned, they're the best. But like me, they won't go chatting up women and being all "interesting and charming" when they first meet someone because it generally is bull**** and is faked by most. The lads who do it, and get the eyelashes of the ladies all a flutter, would generally be regarded as bollocks (what's the plural of bollocks?) by sound lads.

This might seem like a rather inarticulate ramble, but let me summarise as follows. I think girls can't judge a sound, down to earth fella very often because they are expecting some kind of charisma-dripping, superconfident charmer (which means, to most fellas, being a bit of an arse) and what they generally get from good lads is none of this, just nice, reserved decency.

basically you and your friends are great but the girls dont see that, what would you say to a girl who said me and my friends are great its mens fault you cant see that.

guys can be confident and decent it certainly isnt a case of good lads or confident lads.

wylo

Cop wrote: »

I think girls can't judge a sound, down to earth fella very often because they are expecting some kind of charisma-dripping, superconfident charmer (which means, to most fellas, being a bit of an arse) and what they generally get from good lads is none of this, just nice, reserved decency.

Your view of women is very skewered tbh.

Yes , they love confidence , they cant help it, but you dont have to be a charisma-dripping superconfident charmer, as a matter of fact, you can be a fairly quiet confidence person and still have no trouble pulling.

Man seriously , you have got it all wrong, I dont know where your getting all this 'only arseholes pull'. It seems to be you who is lacking confidence, all you need do is chat to women, theres no magic recipe. Theyre just people.

miec

Hi Op

I wonder if your frustration towards women who choose the 'no-hopers' comes across to them.

I have often met with men who tell me they are nice and decent, etc and for some reason this puts me off. Genuinely nice men don't come out with that kind of talk, they just are nice and decent. They don't go around judging everyone, or looking down at the players or the 'daft bimbos' they pull.

I think what another poster suggested, that is getting to know a woman in other situations apart from the club will work better. Also quiet confidence is far more attractive than brashness, so just be yourself and know in time you will meet a woman who appreciates you.

Cop

Cheers for all the comments.

Just a few things. Maybe "sexually frustrated" is the wrong term, I just mean frustrated in romance terms as in not too many genuine connections forming with girls.

Also, I'm not blaming womankind as a whole, jesus, not at all! I know plenty of nice girls, lots of whom are in good relationships but the majority of whom seem to be constantly in and out of bad relationships with lads who I would regard as not very sincere, not very good.

Another thing - I never go near clubs, so that issue is not part of it. I simply hate clubs. I'm not talking about sex here at all really. Maybe I just don't put myself in the right circles, whatever. It just seems to be my experience, that a sincere lad, who could be all the good things under the sun, but who might be a little shy, or a little reserved, is generally not very attractive to girls but he could have a huge amount of really good male friendships. I often wonder about why that is.

Anyway, each to their own experience. If all the girls and fellas reading this have had different experiences, good luck to you.

And I want to stress, blaming womankind as a whole, that's not me at all. I just suspect the dynamic of attraction, and the way things sort of have to work as in the man doing all the running at first, etc, I think that means women can all too easily have the wool pulled over their eyes. I think if a girl isn't almost 100% sure that a fella is interested in her, she won't give him much attention. So the lad who is just friendly and normal to her, may not seem as attractive to her as someone who, for sincere reasons or not, is lavishing her with attention.

Anyway, thanks for all the comments.

cafecolour

Cop wrote: »

It just seems to be my experience, that a sincere lad, who could be all the good things under the sun, but who might be a little shy, or a little reserved, is generally not very attractive to girls but he could have a huge amount of really good male friendships. I often wonder about why that is.

That can be pretty self-fulling TBH - he's got such a network of lads to hang out with, that's all he hangs out with and don't interact as much with women.

Also, this might be a bit off base, but I feel like I know a good few shyer, younger lads who are really picky. I.e. they are turning down a lot of possibilities because they have an impossible ideal in their head.

Cop wrote: »

I think if a girl isn't almost 100% sure that a fella is interested in her, she won't give him much attention.

There's something to that. I think though, a lot of shyer lads aren't giving ANY signals that they're interested and then will talk their way past when they should made a move, and the girl's interest will wane. She's reading the signals that you're not interested and just want to be friends. If you treat them like a mate, you'll get a mate.

Part of the problem is that a lot of doing it in a non-obnoxious way is non-verbal cues. And a lot of shy lads are sh*te at giving or reading non-verbal cues. Girls will send cues that they're interested, and the lads will completely miss them, and send nothing in response - just keep talking pleasantly. Which is fine with other lads who you are just trying to be friends with. Talking = friendly. But you've got to add a bit more signals to say you're interested on another level.

And it is also confidence. By showing interest beyond friendship, you are putting yourself out there and risking rejection. A lot of lads will keep in the friendly banter mode out of nervousness and because they are hedging their bets - a girl isn't going to come out and say no, I don't want to be friends with you, so it's safer. No explicit rejection.

Really, you don't have to suddenly switch to uber-swaggering 'charmer'. You can stay friendly and 'nice' - but you've got to send in a few more signals in there as well, if that makes sense.

Greyfox

One of the reasons confident guys are so attractive is because their conversation is more about having fun and not about trying to impress the girl, if they score great and if they don't theirs loads of other women out their which is an attitude you need to have. Women can sense a mile away if your eager or trying to hard and will run a mile, and confident guys don't give off this vibe. Women need to get the feeling that if you don't score with them you could easily walk away and score with someone else.

Very good looking girls are sometimes bombarded with guys trying too hard that it can be refreshing to meet a guy who is not trying to impress them and see's them as an equal. A guy who's a little cocky and unpredictable and not worried that he might say the wrong thing is refreshing and very, very atttractive. Sadly assholes usually have these traits as well but you can have these traits without been an asshole.

Zascar

OP I know its annoying - but the fact is most young women are mostly interested in arrogant d1ckheads even though 90% of them will deny that. Thankfully it changes and as they approach 30 they come back to reality. You'll find that good looking women are just used to guys folding in front of them, being extra nice and doing anything they want. This gets very boring very quickly and what happens is they see a guy who's a bit confident/arrogant and challenges them a little, this becomes very interesting to them. You need to bear this in mind.

If you've ever seen the movie "The 40 year old virgin" you might be familar with the phraze "You're putting the pussy on a pedestal" Try to chance your thinking and think of yourself as the prize and not them.

Scanlas The 2nd

OP I think you need to take a good hard look at yourself.

You don't make the rules as to who women are allowed to be attracted to.

The fact of the matter is you don't have value (not money) to women.

Look at the men who are getting the women and the ones who don't. The ones who are getting them go after what they want ( and usually good at it). They say what they think and aren't too bothered what others think.

Ask yourself this: would you be afraid to tell a woman about the things you really want to do to her, the stuff that really turns you on? I doubt it.
I say this stuff all the time and its appreciated, its showing your true self and letting the chips fall where they may. The guys who get women don't hide their natural selfishness that we all have. They don't play the game of pretending not to have that selfishness inside. That creates a connection with the women because it resonates with the selfishness deep down that she has but is afraid to express. So she admires that and feels a sense of rapport and connection.
.
I think a switch needs to be flipped in your head that it is your own fault that you don't get women, not women's bad decision making. Who are you to decide who a woman should get with? That's quite arrogant really. Only the women know the pleasure/enjoyment they get from different types of guys. So cut the crap saying they are making bad decisions

I just saw Shutter Island last night, and it reminds me of you. You have built this web of beliefs and stories that hides the fact you are the reason you can't get women.

I know this might seem a bit harsh but I think you need some tough love.

Dark Artist

Cop wrote: »

So the lad who is just friendly and normal to her, may not seem as attractive to her as someone who, for sincere reasons or not, is lavishing her with attention.

This is completely off the mark. As someone else said, the try-hards are the ones who are least attractive, and the guys who aren't so needy are the most attractive.

LegacyUser

Hi, I actually find your original post a little offensive. Firstly, as someone pointed out, what would you want to be doing with the kind of girl that goes for loud, arrogant nasty guys? Secondly, confidence does not rank high up in my list of top qualities in a guy. I'm not particularly confident or extroverted myself - maybe that's why. I wouldn't be put off by confidence itself,but if it crosses the line to arrogance and loud attention seeking behaviour - I'm outta there! I've always prefered the quiet thoughtful, unassuming type of guys. (also have a think for long haired geeks, although I'm not a nerd myself - so each to their own!) My husband himself is so quiet, that I'm the one who approaced him on a night out. He was delighted as he never had the confidence to chat to girls. In a way that worked out well for me as I got to him first!
I always read the same about guys though. They always mention they only like girls that are confident. I would be thinking oh great - I'll be single forever if that's the case. Of course maybe most guys do, but my partner isn't bothered by the lack of mine, as I'm not so bad that I'm insecure about our relationship itself.
You need to maybe start looking somewhere else for girls that are more suited to you, but don't start painting us all with the same brush please. Good luck.

Cop

Cheers for all, especially Scanlas, I like your honesty.

You're probably right, and I take it on board.

Cop

To bbcc, sorry for any offense, damn, last thing I wanted! I think reading back over what I initially wrote, I did write it an hour after a particularly frustrating experience with a girl I quite liked in a pub. I was chatting away to her, getting on great with her, and then this complete idiot from work (he really is, I'm not being harsh here) came in between us and starts rabbiting away. Anyway, end of the night, she's heading off with him.

So it was just a particularly bitter experience after a few in recent times. I don't in any way mean to castigate womenkind, or offend anybody. The reason this is a problem for me at all is because I love women! If I didn't love them, I wouldn't care!

I think I'm beginning to learn here, that I have to treat girls differently to how I treat boys, ie, show them that I actually am attracted to them. Would be a start. Thanks for the comments all.

LegacyUser

Well heres my story if its any consulation
I'm not a quiet or shy guy, I'm very confident actually, I can talk to anyone at all about anything and I dont sit in the corner all night
In my year in college theres only about 12 of us, so naturally enough we hang out in one big group. Theres only 4 lads and the rest are girls. Theres me, an english lad whos very shy and reserved, a mature student (about 30yo) and a mouthy ****er who by the cut of him seems to spend way to much time reading "The players guide" type of ****e.
When I got there first there was two girls who you couldnt miss, One of these hotter girls is now going out with the quiet english lad and another hot girl is going out with the mouthy guy.
I made an effort with these two girls before they ended up with these guys, but realised they werent my type anyway. One was a bit stuck up and the other was a ****ing headcase. I ended up paying more attention to my current girlfriend, who for me actually ranks with these others, she just doesnt show her goods off to everyone(slight lack of self esteem i think)
Now this quiet lad has a seriously hot girlfriend and all he had to do was sit back and not even try, she was mad about him for ages but he didnt even notice, it was me eventually who pointed it out to him.
So I reckon, its not the loud mouthy guys who get the hot girls. Its a matter of preference, the loud mouthy guy actually asked the english lads gf out before his own girlfriend. So there you go. Its not a matter of being loud, just assured in yourself.
I too now have a hot girlfriend, who apparently loves me because I don't pander too the group mentality and I do my own thing. I'm a bit of a loner to be honest and if someone annoys me i do something about it, thats why she was attracted to me.
She wasnt attracted at first because I was making way to much of an effort to be sociable and something I'm not. It was only after a couple of months that I decided to be true to myself and just do what I felt like doing and **** the rest of them.
I think I may be blowing my own trumpet here, but I think you see the point I'm trying to make.
Just be yourself and take a look around you, there may be a lovely girl hiding in the corner being shy who you simply havent notice because of her quietness, and she might be mad abut you.
That said, being yourself is waaay easier said then done.

LegacyUser

Hi Op thats not confidence that's arrogance,Two completely different things.Confidence is a attraction because you feel at ease with yourself.
Girls like that are immature and inexperienced so cant tell difference.Unfortunately they have to figure it out hard way.
I just read your last post,And to be honest you are better off without her.

BobbyOLeary

OP you remind me of myself when I was younger. I'd see the girls I liked going off and scoring absolute tools. I really couldn't figure it out at all, why would she like that guy and not the amazing me? It's because that guy charmed her and excited her. It took me years to figure it out but figure it out I did.

Chatting up women is a relatively simple process. It just takes you to be a man and go and chat to them. You don't need to be an ass, just excite them and make them laugh. It just so happens that guys who are obnoxious and arrogant do this because they don't care what she thinks. Similarly a charming guy can do it without being an ass.

Your post just smacks of jealousy and feigned superiority; if you're so much better than these guys how come women don't go home with you? I'll probably get called out for this but I see myself in your posts and it riles me.

People have already told you why you're messing up. Learn from it and improve.

AdmiralRazor

Fascinating.

From my own observations of male/female courtship rituals, it would seem that females are attracted to the males who they think will take control, as the bottom line is; women like to be taken in hand.

Or so they would have us believe...

gbee

Suffered this a lad during the 70s ... so now after 40 years we know one thing ... they don't change!

profitius

Zascar wrote: »

OP I know its annoying - but the fact is most young women are mostly interested in arrogant d1ckheads even though 90% of them will deny that. Thankfully it changes and as they approach 30 they come back to reality. You'll find that good looking women are just used to guys folding in front of them, being extra nice and doing anything they want. This gets very boring very quickly and what happens is they see a guy who's a bit confident/arrogant and challenges them a little, this becomes very interesting to them. You need to bear this in mind.

Yup, people who ACT overly arrogant and ACT like badboys etc are really not as confident as they seem because they need to ACT like that for a reason. It takes women (with brains) a few years to realise this is childish behaviour.

OP go study look at what a real confident man is. Those actors spring to mind. Watch their body language. They don't have to say anything they have presense which people notice by their body language.

shellyboo

Skimming the thread, but one phrase caught my eye - OP, if you are "friendly and normal" with a girl, you will
end up being a normal friend to her. If you fancy someone, act like it - otherwise, how's she to know? If you treat her the same as everyone else you talk to, she's going to assume you're not interested - and who could blame her? Of course she'll end up
with the guy who went balls-out to chat her up.

You can chat someone up in a decent, non-arrogant, non-sleazy way. You don't have to act like an assshole. You do have to act like you're interested though.

Cop

First, I want to say a big thank you to everyone who made a comment here, the comments from the lads and girls have been a huge help to me and I've taken all the advice on more.

So much so that last night I headed out with a few mates, and decided I would try a totally different approach. Chatted away to girls all night, and it went brilliantly!

Honestly, I couldn't quite believe it, I decided to be open and assured but still trying to be as nice and down to earth as possible and I had a great night with one girl in particular, who I'm going to meet later in the week.

So, fair play to everyone for the wise words, I'm surprised how off the mark I had been with things. I think I suddenly know how it works. Online therapy at its finest!