2005/6 A4 Vs. 2005 BMW

caomhino

Just wondering what would you reckon is the better buy, a 2005/06 2.0 TDI SE A4 or a same yearish 320D. Looking to spend about €15/16k tops. I suppose the BMW will have the better sell on value as it's a newer model but i'm looking to have the car for 4/5 years as i have with my current one which is now worthless. What do you reckon ??

R.O.R

caomhino wrote: »

Just wondering what would you reckon is the better buy, a 2005/06 2.0 TDI SE A4 or a same yearish 320D. Looking to spend about €15/16k tops. I suppose the BMW will have the better sell on value as it's a newer model but i'm looking to have the car for 4/5 years as i have with my current one which is now worthless. What do you reckon ??

Accord 2.2 Executive makes a better buy than both of those, but if it has to be one of the above, then the 320d as long as it's above base spec (MFSW). Just a better car than the A4.

caomhino

cheers for that. Caught in two minds here. Would look to spend about €15-17k tops. Would it be fair to say that in about 4/5 years neither will be worth a bean as they'll be on the high tax system ?? whereas if i was to go with a 08 model or something not as pricey i'd at least have something that i could move on ??

Gophur

One should carefully consider the costs associated with any of these cars.

BMW 2.0 turbo can run up horrendous bills. The Honda , of that vintage, was not a reliable engine, while the maintenance costs of the Audi are not insignificant.

Approach any of them with an open mind and do the maths, they are not the money-savers they are made out to be. A good petrol version of any of them could end up being much more economical in the long run.

Me? I'd push the boat out and get a 2008, low emissions car, for that money. (Or a few bob more)

Andrew33

Jeremy Clarkson was of the opinion that all the knobheads who used to drive 3 series beemers now drive Audi's so therefore the 3 series is the cool one again. I disagree, I think both are driven by knobheads.:D

Seweryn

Andrew33 wrote: »

Jeremy Clarkson was of the opinion that all the knobheads who used to drive 3 series beemers now drive Audi's so therefore the 3 series is the cool one again. I disagree, I think both are driven by knobheads.:D

I agree . I would buy something else rather than these two; the Honda is a good alternative, so is the Legacy (2008 only with Diesel if the Diesel is necessary).

Gophur

Andrew33 wrote: »

Jeremy Clarkson was of the opinion that all the knobheads who used to drive 3 series beemers now drive Audi's so therefore the 3 series is the cool one again. I disagree, I think both are driven by knobheads.:D

I think you need to get out a bit more!


To choose a car based on the perception of the "type" of person who drives it, is pathetic.

Can't beat a bit of stereo-typing, eh?


Both Audi and BMW are great cars and both are well worth considering. Both perform and drive infinitely better than anything Japanese, including Honda.

R.O.R

Gophur wrote: »

Both Audi and BMW are great cars and both are well worth considering. Both perform and drive infinitely better than anything Japanese, including Honda.

Can you clarify "perform and drive infinitely better than anything Japanese, including Honda"?

While the E46 & E90 320d will be a better drive than the Accord, the previous generation A4 is on par with the Accord to drive. The engine isn't as smooth and the specification is no where near that of the Honda.

As far as reliability goes, the Audi will be the worst. It's not a terrible motor, but the build quality just isn't great. The diesel BMW's are OK (damn sight better than the ED petrol models that are now trying to kill drivers), but except for clutches (which all diesels will need around 100k) there are no issues with the Accord Diesels if serviced correctly.

We've 2 Accord diesels on fleet that are either approaching or over 200,000km. Both have had clutches, servicing and tyres according to the service history - with not a hint of a breakdown. If only the same could be said about German cars with half that mileage.

Andrew33

Gophur wrote: »

I think you need to get out a bit more!


To choose a car based on the perception of the "type" of person who drives it, is pathetic.

Can't beat a bit of stereo-typing, eh?


Both Audi and BMW are great cars and both are well worth considering. Both perform and drive infinitely better than anything Japanese, including Honda.

Oh for Gods sake! I threw it in for a bit of humour, try not read TOO literally into everything thats posted here. And you have your own preconceptions going on about Jap cars too! test tube babies shouldn't throw stones etc etc.

pajero12

Andrew33 wrote: »

Jeremy Clarkson was of the opinion that all the knobheads who used to drive 3 series beemers now drive Audi's so therefore the 3 series is the cool one again. I disagree, I think both are driven by knobheads.:D

It was actually the m3 drivers that were cocks not 3 series drives

high horse

R.O.R wrote: »

While the E46 & E90 320d will be a better drive than the Accord, the previous generation A4 is on par with the Accord to drive. The engine isn't as smooth and the specification is no where near that of the Honda.

Are the Accords that bad to drive? :P

Gophur

Andrew33 wrote: »

............And you have your own preconceptions going on about Jap cars too!..............

They are not preconceptions, they are opinions, based on driving a hell of a lot of cars in my life-time. The Germans are streets ahead of the Japs, in such cars.

PaddyFagan

R.O.R wrote: »

damn sight better than the ED petrol models that are now trying to kill drivers

I obviously missed something - R.O.R. can you point me at a link about this (Google wasn't finding anything) - the wife has a 318i ED.

Paddy

R.O.R

PaddyFagan wrote: »

I obviously missed something - R.O.R. can you point me at a link about this (Google wasn't finding anything) - the wife has a 318i ED.

Paddy

And it hasn't died yet?

Not sure if there is anything on Google yet, but it's a major issue - especially as we have a load of late 07, early 08 BMW petrols on fleet.

They start by chugging, which is the first sign a coil is about to blow. Take it in to BMW and they'll replace that coil. You might get a few weeks out of it until another coil goes at which point BMW will replace all the coils. Another couple of weeks and the injectors will start to pack up and gradually need replacing, along with a sensor (knock sensor ??)

I think all our ED 316, 318 & 320's have had this issue and it's also affecting a late 07 523i (all injectors replaced twice, coils at least that amount of times). Driving a 5 cylinder 5 Series is no fun at all.

I was picking up a part in Frank Keane's last Thursday and there was a woman at service with the same problem - service advisor was telling her they were going to replace the first coil.

If it does start chugging then BMW assist won't collect the car, you have to get it to a dealer. As it's an international problem, the coils are on back order (bit like Audi/VW in 2003) so it might take a while for it to come in.

A 2008 316i died under the driver at 120km/h in the outside lane of the M7 last week - no servo assist on the brakes, no power steering, so he's refusing to take that back and according to the dealer it's with, there are no faults logged in the ECU for it.

I checked with an ex. collegue in a leasing firm I used to work in, and they are having the exact same issues with a lot of those cars too.

Hopefully it either won't happen, or it will start as a simple misfire for your good lady, without the car dying completely.

Gophur

R.O.R wrote: »

And it hasn't died yet?

Not sure if there is anything on Google yet, but it's a major issue - especially as we have a load of late 07, early 08 BMW petrols on fleet.

They start by chugging, which is the first sign a coil is about to blow. Take it in to BMW and they'll replace that coil. You might get a few weeks out of it until another coil goes at which point BMW will replace all the coils. Another couple of weeks and the injectors will start to pack up and gradually need replacing, along with a sensor (knock sensor ??)

I think all our ED 316, 318 & 320's have had this issue and it's also affecting a late 07 523i (all injectors replaced twice, coils at least that amount of times). Driving a 5 cylinder 5 Series is no fun at all.

I was picking up a part in Frank Keane's last Thursday and there was a woman at service with the same problem - service advisor was telling her they were going to replace the first coil.

If it does start chugging then BMW assist won't collect the car, you have to get it to a dealer. As it's an international problem, the coils are on back order (bit like Audi/VW in 2003) so it might take a while for it to come in.

A 2008 316i died under the driver at 120km/h in the outside lane of the M7 last week - no servo assist on the brakes, no power steering, so he's refusing to take that back and according to the dealer it's with, there are no faults logged in the ECU for it.

I checked with an ex. collegue in a leasing firm I used to work in, and they are having the exact same issues with a lot of those cars too.

Hopefully it either won't happen, or it will start as a simple misfire for your good lady, without the car dying completely.

A friend of mine is having the exact same issues with coils on her 2008 316i.

Dealer will not replace any coil that has not failed but has told her they will all fail. They are also refusing to expend the warranty to cover any future fails.

Result? She has had to buy an extended warranty and will never buy another BMW ever again. BMW have, for the sake of a few hundred € lost a customer who changes her car every three years. V Poor service.

Leonard Hofstadter

Jesus that's pretty shocking stuff, do BMW make any petrol engines that work these days?

First it was the diesels they made a complete balls of and now they are making rubbish petrols as well:rolleyes:. All this fancy technology is all well and good but unless it actually works then there really is no point in having it. These new DI petrol BMW's are even worse than the GDI was ago for reliability and at only 2 years old we haven't even got to the stage where they will have suffered from excess carbon build ups either.

In the US there is a class action being taken because the High Pressure Fuel Pump in the 335i packs in at a rate similar to the coils and injectors of the newer petrol BMW's here.

I haven't heard if the DI turbos here have any problems but I wouldn't be surprised if this engine also gives trouble in Europe.

Despite what BMW says and what some fanboys say the 320ds after 2004 are still suffering from turbo failure, which was supposedly resolved when they brought out the then new 3 series.

The newer 177 hp engine doesn't yet suffer from turbo problems but it is only 2-3 years old so it is a bit early to say if that suffers but I wouldn't be surprised if it will eventually, 177 hp from a 2.0 diesel is very high.

PaddyFagan

R.O.R wrote: »

And it hasn't died yet?

<SNIP>

Hopefully it either won't happen, or it will start as a simple misfire for your good lady, without the car dying completely.

Sweet jesus - no issues so far, it's an August 08 (run-out pre-facelift), so perhaps it's a bit soon for her to hit it yet. I'll let her know anyway - hopefully she'll avoid any issues.

I had a coil failure on my Golf Plus (an 06) so I'm familar with the symptoms.
(FYI I was out of warrentee by a few months, but my VW dealer replaced it FOC without even being pushed )

Paddy

PS Sorry for the thread highjack:)

Andrew33

pajero12 wrote: »

It was actually the m3 drivers that were cocks not 3 series drives

And every knobhead who sticks an M badge on their 3 series (eh, that'd be most of them!). EVERY 3 series driver wishes he/she had an M3 ergo all 3 series drivers are knobheads or potential knobheads:D

BTW, do you know what pajero means in spain?

pajero12

Andrew33 wrote: »

And every knobhead who sticks an M badge on their 3 series (eh, that'd be most of them!). EVERY 3 series driver wishes he/she had an M3 ergo all 3 series drivers are knobheads or potential knobheads:D

BTW, do you know what pajero means in spain?

:DHehe thats a good interpretation

Yep,wanker

caomhino

just saw this on donedeal for an accord

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1120508

might try and view it over the weekend, you reckon the honda would be solid enough so, looks about 4/5 k cheaper than the BMW. What about the Lexxus I220D, any thoughts on those ?

cheers,

Stevie Dakota

That's disappointing news on the BMW's, what happened to the days when engines and parts were designed to last decades? My last BMW (95 520i) was almost like new when I sold it and the engine ran like silk. Nowdays 2-3 years and you're into major problems.

PauloMN

R.O.R wrote: »

As far as reliability goes, the Audi will be the worst. It's not a terrible motor, but the build quality just isn't great.

Whatever about the rest of your post, the above is just complete bollocks.

R.O.R

PauloMN wrote: »

Whatever about the rest of your post, the above is just complete bollocks.

Do you want to explain any more than that?

I'm basing this on over 7 years experience of leasing, dealing with large numbers of most popular motor vehicles - especially in the sector the OP is looking at.

From experience, Audi's are not that reliable (see also VW), BMW diesel's don't give that many problems and it's rare you'll come across any issue at all on an Accord.

Leonard Hofstadter

R.O.R wrote: »

From experience, Audi's are not that reliable (see also VW), BMW diesel's don't give that many problems and it's rare you'll come across any issue at all on an Accord.

Would I be right in saying that the Efficient Dynamics 2.0 diesels don't have the turbo problems the older ones have then?

Are the 163 hp 320ds better than the 150 hp 02-05 models for reliability?

PauloMN

R.O.R wrote: »

Do you want to explain any more than that?

I'm basing this on over 7 years experience of leasing, dealing with large numbers of most popular motor vehicles - especially in the sector the OP is looking at.

From experience, Audi's are not that reliable (see also VW), BMW diesel's don't give that many problems and it's rare you'll come across any issue at all on an Accord.

Well maybe you're mixing up build quality and reliability, but the build quality of both Audi and BMW are streets ahead of Honda. Honda are probably more reliable in terms of actual engines though.

R.O.R

captainspeed wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that the Efficient Dynamics 2.0 diesels don't have the turbo problems the older ones have then?

Are the 163 hp 320ds better than the 150 hp 02-05 models for reliability?

If we've had any issues with any E92 diesels, it's not been enough of an issue to come to my attention.

To be honest, I don't remember there being a huge issue with the 150bhp model, but that's probably because at that time there were very few Diesel 3 series around in Ireland. Most of the 3 series we had on fleet were being driven by the bosses just to and from the office, so were usually 318's.

Tea 1000

Gophur wrote: »

Both Audi and BMW are great cars and both are well worth considering. Both perform and drive infinitely better than anything Japanese, including Honda.

Utter tripe.
The most common Audi sold here was the 1.9TDi, at 115bhp in the later A4's would be whipped by the Accord. Anyone who did splash on the 2litre 140bhp will be matched by the Accord. That's the performance myth put to bed.
Drive? Handling and A4 aren't two terms that go together well. The A4 grips well in corners, that's it. That's all the positives you can say about that. It's attitude in corners isn't great, it doesn't ride over uneven surfaces well, it bottoms out too easily on roads with sunken dips or small crests, and it offers absolute zero in terms of feedback. None of which can be said about the Accord, which never claims to be a great handling car, but it does it's job well with a sophistication in the suspension that the Audi lacks. The Honda also lacks a little feedback however, and there is a little roll in corners, but it does give feedback, unlike the A4.
The BMW is in a different league in terms of handling and feedback, and the BMW engine is a very good performer. It is however, cramped inside and poor on equipment. Also a bit too firm over rough roads.

Tea 1000

PauloMN wrote: »

Well maybe you're mixing up build quality and reliability, but the build quality of both Audi and BMW are streets ahead of Honda. Honda are probably more reliable in terms of actual engines though.

Streets? Nope. Quality of the plastics might be a little ahead in the German rivals, but build quality is good on all three. (apart from maybe a few quality control issues in the Audi plant).
The Audi will however have the best sound insulation, but some extra foam does not a "better built" car make.

samsemtex

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Utter tripe.
The most common Audi sold here was the 1.9TDi, at 115bhp in the later A4's would be whipped by the Accord. Anyone who did splash on the 2litre 140bhp will be matched by the Accord. That's the performance myth put to bed.
Drive? Handling and A4 aren't two terms that go together well. The A4 grips well in corners, that's it. That's all the positives you can say about that. It's attitude in corners isn't great, it doesn't ride over uneven surfaces well, it bottoms out too easily on roads with sunken dips or small crests, and it offers absolute zero in terms of feedback. None of which can be said about the Accord, which never claims to be a great handling car, but it does it's job well with a sophistication in the suspension that the Audi lacks. The Honda also lacks a little feedback however, and there is a little roll in corners, but it does give feedback, unlike the A4.
The BMW is in a different league in terms of handling and feedback, and the BMW engine is a very good performer. It is however, cramped inside and poor on equipment. Also a bit too firm over rough roads.

I really dont know why Audi are considered a drivers car. The standard non quattro A4 is a horrible yoke to drive. No fun whatsoever. I would take a C-class, 3-series, 159 or even a 9-3 ahead of it in terms of driving experience.

Tea 1000

samsemtex wrote: »

I really dont know why Audi are considered a drivers car. The standard non quattro A4 is a horrible yoke to drive. No fun whatsoever. I would take a C-class, 3-series, 159 or even a 9-3 ahead of it in terms of driving experience.

I think only in Ireland they are, cause most people actually don't know the difference.