Moral objections to BFs job

LegacyUser

My BF works in a pretty recession proof industry and has been headhunted for a new job (little more money, he would find it much more interesting and its a step up career wise). However, its with a company I cannot stand because I really object to how they operate and how they treat their staff (I have experience of them myself).
He appreciates this but wants to go for it anyway. He knows how much I object to them (maybe I should put another thread in politics!!) but is going for an interview anyway.
How can I support him? Should I live with this, given the state the country is in can we afford principles?

Danniboo

dilemmaemma wrote: »

My BF works in a pretty recession proof industry and has been headhunted for a new job (little more money, he would find it much more interesting and its a step up career wise). However, its with a company I cannot stand because I really object to how they operate and how they treat their staff (I have experience of them myself).
He appreciates this but wants to go for it anyway. He knows how much I object to them (maybe I should put another thread in politics!!) but is going for an interview anyway.
How can I support him? Should I live with this, given the state the country is in can we afford principles?

Unless they have sweat shops or pay less than min wage or are involved in child labour or animal cruelty I seriously think you should be greatful in this current climate that he has been given a job with more money instead of being made redundant and down the dole office.

source

In this current economic climate, I would leap head on into a job with more money, even if it involved something i'm not all that comfortable with. He can always decide to move on once he's settled in the new job if it becomes too objectionable, also i really don't see what a company could do that would be so bad with the exception of what Danniboo outlined.

Lets say for example you're BF was going for a job with CAT the heavy machinery manufacturer, and you were to object because they supply machinery to Isreal, this in my mind is not a good enough reason to ask him not to go for it.

On the other hand lets say he was starting to work for a clothing company, who use sweat shops and child labour to make their goods, then yes i would be saying something to him about it.

At the end of the day he needs to make an economic decision, and you need to be supportive of his decision. If you can't do that then i would suggest that there are some deeper underlying issues with your relationship that you need to explore.

S23

While it appears pretty straight forward this is not anywhere near as clear cut as it seems.

Yeah it looks like the logical thing to do is just say 'ah fcuk it, go for it', because the economy is in a huge slump its not coming out of anytime soon and so on.

However, I have to say I really respect the OP for having such firm convicition behind her principles. You see the thing with most people is they have great principles and ethics in theory.

You often hear some people banging on about 'I'd never do xyz, absolutely no way in the world' or 'I wouldn't put up with abc, not me, not ever'.
Most people have fabulous principles in theory but when it comes to the crunch it actually turns out they were full of piss and vinegar and that all these highly noble principles they said they lived their life adhering to was all a big load of bo**ocks.

Its very easy saying you believe in something when you think you'll never be put in that situation.

I left a job once purely on the basis of principle/ethics/whatever you'd like to call it. The employer I was working for was absoultey toxic and I simply couldn't abide the treatment of certain staff, the illegal work practices and the morally shady goings on. I just decided this all completely went against all my morals and principles and I couldn't look myself in the mirror every morning being one of 'those people' who can't actually follow through with the morals and principles they believe in. It was a highly paid job and I myself was treated very well at the place. I left even though I had no other job to go to because it was the right thing for me to do personally.

Now in this case its different because its your boyfriend taking the job. Its very hard to say what the story is without knowing the detail. What I would say is that you would have to have really, really, really strong moral and ethical objections to the work practices of this company for it to impact on your relationship. However, until I know the scale of your obejections it would be impossible to give you any further advice.

LegacyUser

The company is a global brand which operates in many dodgy countries which have appalling human rights records and have buldozed through the rights of natives in order to make money.

I will not give its name for obvious reasons but I am very uncomfortable with how it treats people. I also know people who have worked for them and "gone to the dark side" regarding how they can excuse what the company does.

Danniboo

S23 wrote: »

While it appears pretty straight forward this is not anywhere near as clear cut as it seems.

Yeah it looks like the logical thing to do is just say 'ah fcuk it, go for it', because the economy is in a huge slump its not coming out of anytime soon and so on.

However, I have to say I really respect the OP for having such firm convicition behind her principles. You see the thing with most people is they have great principles and ethics in theory.
You may even here some people banging on about 'I'd never do xyz, absolutely no way in the world' or 'I wouldn't put up with abc, not me, not ever'.
Most people have fabulous principles in theory but when it comes to the crunch it actually turns out they were full of piss and vinegar and that all these highly noble principles they said they lived their life adhering to was all a big load of bo**ocks.

Its very easy saying you believe in something when you think you'll never be put in that situation.

I left a job once purely on the basis of principle/ethics/whatever you'd like to call it. The employer I was working for was absoultey toxic and I simply couldn't abide the treatment of certain staff, the illegal work practices and the morally shady goings on. I just decided this all completely went against all my morals and principles and I couldn't look myself in the mirror every morning being one of 'those people' who can't actually follow through with the morals and principles they believe in. I left even though I had no other job to go to because it was the right thing for me to do personally.

Now in this case its different because its your boyfriend taking the job. Its very hard to say what the story is without knowing the detail. What I would say is that you would have to have really, really, really strong moral and ethical objections to the work practices of this company for it to impact on your relationship. However, until I know the scale of your obejections it would be impossible to give you any further advice.

You can't justify that statement with the small amount of information the OP has given us, who's to know maybe the OP is really really militant in her approach to life or maybe she has a personal grievance with this company.

Like you said the company you left because you disagree with their principles, if this was the time of the Celtic Tiger that was easy for you. What advice would you give to a husband/wife that worked for a company similar to the one you mentioned, who has a mortgage to pay, kids to feed, a car, personal loans, grocery bills, do you think it would be easy for him to have the luxury to say I don't agree with your work ethics i'm out of here.

Danniboo

dilemmaemma wrote: »

The company is a global brand which operates in many dodgy countries which have appalling human rights records and have buldozed through the rights of natives in order to make money.

I will not give its name for obvious reasons but I am very uncomfortable with how it treats people. I also know people who have worked for them and "gone to the dark side" regarding how they can excuse what the company does.

As in literally bulldozed as in rainforests?

LegacyUser

Literally and figuratively. They are an organisation I object to on many levels.

Cheap Thrills!

Beggars can't be choosers.

Thousands of things we do every day indirectly cause suffering elsewhere, you can't mitigate for that or you wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning.

Or even stay in bed, the sheets and pillows might have been made in a sweat shop, you just aren't aware.

Danniboo

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Beggars can't be choosers.

Thousands of things we do every day indirectly cause suffering elsewhere, you can't mitigate for that or you wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning.

Or even stay in bed, the sheets and pillows might have been made in a sweat shop, you just don't know.

That's a great point, I for one have a very strong moral compass but at what stage is it okay to say I have to draw a line here, or if you do that as another poster pointed out would that mean your morals and beliefs are phoney and were full of vinegar??

OP, personally if I knew a company I was offered a job with was operating in these ways I wouldn't take it. Are you financially okay if he stays in the job he has now, ie is there a risk of redundancy, wage cut etc, if you are would he not consider staying.

S23

Danniboo wrote: »

Like you said the company you left because you disagree with their principles, if this was the time of the Celtic Tiger that was easy for you. What advice would you give to a husband/wife that worked for a company similar to the one you mentioned, who has a mortgage to pay, kids to feed, a car, personal loans, grocery bills, do you think it would be easy for him to have the luxury to say I don't agree with your work ethics i'm out of here.

It wasn't the time of the 'Celtic Tiger' and I was unemployed for 9 months after I left. I had just as many bills/mortgage to pay as you listed there. So I certainly didn't have any 'luxury' in leaving the job I was in. I did what I felt was right because I felt it was right. It didn't matter that it wasn't an easy thing to do because it was the right thing to do.
As for what advice I would give to someone with the same bills/mortgage etc... to pay for. Stick to your guns. If you really truly believe in something then follow through with those beliefs.

While I admit I made a few assumptions about the OP from her opening post (which turned out to be well founded as far as I can see from her reply) you've done exactly the same and more with me.

The implication is that I only left the job on the basis of principle because it was an easy thing to do. As I've outlined thats completely untrue. Most people find it hard to fathom that some people can so staunchly stick by their principles and beliefs.
Thats quite simply because, as in this case, its easy to cop out and say 'ah I would have stuck by my principles but sure you know I couldn't really'

Principles/beliefs/ethics you either have them and stand by them or you don't. They don't just disappear.
For example, you can't say 'well I'm blatanly opposed to what this XYZ company is doing and i have often stated I find it morally and ethically reprehensible but in this case it doesn't suit me to stick by my princples so I won't'.

Well you can say it, but, then you simply fall into the category of being one of those people whose morals, ethics and belief system amounts to a lot of big talk and not a lot more

S23

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Thousands of things we do every day indirectly cause suffering elsewhere, you can't mitigate for that or you wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning.

Or even stay in bed, the sheets and pillows might have been made in a sweat shop, you just aren't aware.

The existence of this state most certainly leads directly and indirectly to suffering in other parts of the world. I think anyone living in a westernised country has to deal with that.

However, in this case, its not something indirect the OP is talking about. She can see it plain as day and very much has a straight line of vision to the things this company does that she finds so reprehensible so the comparison is very skewed. She does have a choice in this case. Its not something thats slipping under her radar, its right there in front of her face

Cheap Thrills!

S23 wrote: »

The existence of this state most certainly leads directly and indirectly to suffering in other parts of the world. I think anyone living in a westernised country has to deal with that.

However, in this case, its not something indirect the OP is talking about. She can see it plain as day and very much has a straight line of vision to the things this company does that she finds so reprehensible so the comparison is very skewed. She does have a choice in this case. Its not something thats slipping under her radar, its right there in front of her face

No its in far away countries, see this quote:

The company is a global brand which operates in many dodgy countries which have appalling human rights records and have buldozed through the rights of natives in order to make money.

They are gonna do this whether OP's BF works there or not.......principles are good if you can make a difference but in this case he can't by not taking the job and I believe most/many companies are up to all sorts of nefarious stuff we don't know about.

Even the victims of these companies would probably take the job if they had the choice. Not a nice choice but if there is no other option what can you do.

S23

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

No its in far away countries, see this quote:

Thats not the point I was making. For us to live in this westernised, 'civilised', homogenised, consumer driven 1st world country, by default people elsewhere in the world have to suffer with the various trade agreements, consumer markets etc.. created by the existence of this state.

I was simply highlighting that your point about possibly lying in bedsheets made in a sweatshop can be taken much further if you like

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Not a nice choice but if there is no other option what can you do.

There is always another option its just not always an easy one. Thats the point

Danniboo

S23 wrote: »

It wasn't the time of the 'Celtic Tiger' and I was unemployed for 9 months after I left. I had just as many bills/mortgage to pay as you listed there. So I certainly didn't have any 'luxury' in leaving the job I was in. I did what I felt was right because I felt it was right. It didn't matter that it wasn't an easy thing to do because it was the right thing to do.
As for what advice I would give to someone with the same bills/mortgage etc... to pay for. Stick to your guns. If you really truly believe in something then follow through with those beliefs.

While I admit I made a few assumptions about the OP from her opening post (which turned out to be well founded as far as I can see from her reply) you've done exactly the same and more with me.

The implication is that I only left the job on the basis of principle because it was an easy thing to do. As I've outlined thats completely untrue. Most people find it hard to fathom that some people can so staunchly stick by their principles and beliefs.
Thats quite simply because, as in this case, its easy to cop out and say 'ah I would have stuck by my principles but sure you know I couldn't really'

Principles/beliefs/ethics you either have them and stand by them or you don't. They don't just disappear.
For example, you can't say 'well I'm blatanly opposed to what this XYZ company is doing and i have often stated I find it morally and ethically reprehensible but in this case it doesn't suit me to stick by my princples so I won't'.

Well you can say it, but, then you simply fall into the category of being one of those people whose morals, ethics and belief system amounts to a lot of big talk and not a lot more

QUOTE=S23;65201327]It wasn't the time of the 'Celtic Tiger' and I was unemployed for 9 months after I left. I had just as many bills/mortgage to pay as you listed there. So I certainly didn't have any 'luxury' in leaving the job I was in. I did what I felt was right because I felt it was right. It didn't matter that it wasn't an easy thing to do because it was the right thing to do.
As for what advice I would give to someone with the same bills/mortgage etc... to pay for. Stick to your guns. If you really truly believe in something then follow through with those beliefs.
While I admit I made a few assumptions about the OP from her opening post (which turned out to be well founded as far as I can see from her reply) you've done exactly the same and more with me.
The implication is that I only left the job on the basis of principle because it was an easy thing to do. As I've outlined thats completely untrue. Most people find it hard to fathom that some people can so staunchly stick by their principles and beliefs.
Thats quite simply because, as in this case, its easy to cop out and say 'ah I would have stuck by my principles but sure you know I couldn't really'
Principles/beliefs/ethics you either have them and stand by them or you don't. They don't just disappear.
For example, you can't say 'well I'm blatanly opposed to what this XYZ company is doing and i have often stated I find it morally and ethically reprehensible but in this case it doesn't suit me to stick by my princples so I won't'.
Well you can say it, but, then you simply fall into the category of being one of those people whose morals, ethics and belief system amounts to a lot of big talk and not a lot more[/QUOTE]

Have you got kids, are you married did you have a back up plan in place before you left this company or someone you could depend on financially? How much savings had you got, did you suffer for those 9 months, did you move back home? If a guy came on here and said he hate his job and what they are doing but has to look after his children and wife so needs to stay there until something else crops up do you honestly believe people would hold you in higher regard than him because you stuck by your principles and up and left your job.

sbsquarepants

dilemmaemma wrote: »

The company is a global brand which operates in many dodgy countries which have appalling human rights records and have buldozed through the rights of natives in order to make money.

To be quite honest with you op, there aren't many global brands that haven't done this. Most major brands have a few skeletons in their closet to say the least. I think you may be over reacting here, even forgetting the current state of the economy.
Generally speaking i admire people who stick to their principles, but they need to be thought through to the end. There is precious little point in loosing a good relationship for an impossible principle. If you've ever eaten in a fast food chain, wore basically any brand of clothes or footwear, drank coffee, driven a car, etc you are more or less in league with the devil. Don't throw away a good relationship over nothing!

S23

Danniboo wrote: »

Have you got kids, are you married did you have a back up plan in place before you left this company or someone you could depend on financially? How much savings had you got, did you suffer for those 9 months, did you move back home?

Not that any of that is really any of your business but I'll tell you since you seem to be unable to wrap your head around the idea that someone can stick to their guns regardless of the hardship it causes.

Before I start, lest anyone suggest I'm trying to make myself out to be a martyr, I've no complaints about any of this because it was my choice and I'm simply listing this stuff so Danniboo might get the picture that people can do what they believe is right even if it causes hardship.

No I do not have kids. Not married either but in a long term relationship with OH and have the whole mortgage scenario going on. I also have a very sick grandmother who requires a lot of specialist medical care and attention which most certainly didn't/doesn't come cheap. With no other family to look after her you could say she was/is my 'dependent'.

Did I have backup plan? I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm not intentionally trying to be obstructive saying that but I don't know what you mean exactly by plan? The general plan was to get work somewhere else as soon as possible. There was no intricate 'masterplan' or anything like that if thats what you mean

The extent of my savings are absofckinglutely none of your business either. I'm most certainly not going to get into that on here. Suffice to say it was a very tough, lean and testing 9 months that wasn't a stroll in the park by any stretch of the imagination

Danniboo wrote: »

If a guy came on here and said he hate his job and what they are doing but has to look after his children and wife so needs to stay there until something else crops up do you honestly believe people would hold you in higher regard than him because you stuck by your principles and up and left your job.

You really don't get it do you? I mean that bit I highlighted basically tells me you don't.

I couldn't give a monkeys fcuk what anyone thinks about me or what regard they hold me in with realtion to this stuff. Its not about sitting on a high horse or trying to appear to be noble to others.

Its about knowing you believe in something yourself, knowing what you think is right and what you think is wrong and knowing that you can live with yourself and look yourself in the eye each morning. Its got absolutely fcuking nothing to do with what anyone else thinks of you.


This is all gone a bit off topic and I apologise to the OP. All I will say is that I certainly haven't lambasted or disrespected anyone for saying the OP should just forget about it. Some people just can't seem to get their head around the fact you do have the choice even if its a tough oe

I do firmly stand by what I said, though, and strongly defend the OP's right to go against the grain on this one and want to make sure she knows that just giving in and going with the flow like the vast amount of people do in life/are suggesting on here is not the only option open to her

Danniboo

S23 wrote: »

Not that any of that is really any of your business but I'll tell you since you seem to be unable to wrap your head around the idea that someone can stick to their guns regardless of the hardship it causes.
Before I start, lest anyone suggest I'm trying to make myself out to be a martyr, I've no complaints about any of this because it was my choice and I'm simply listing this stuff so Danniboo might get the picture that people can do what they believe is right even if it causes hardship.
No I do not have kids. Not married either but in a long term relationship with OH and have the whole mortgage scenario going on. I also have a very sick grandmother who requires a lot of specialist medical care and attention which most certainly didn't/doesn't come cheap. With no other family to look after her you could say she was/is my 'dependent'.
Did I have backup plan? I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm not intentionally trying to be obstructive saying that but I don't know what you mean exactly by plan? The general plan was to get work somewhere else as soon as possible. There was no intricate 'masterplan' or anything like that if thats what you mean
The extent of my savings are absofckinglutely none of your business either. I'm most certainly not going to get into that on here. Suffice to say it was a very tough, lean and testing 9 months that wasn't a stroll in the park by any stretch of the imagination

You really don't get it do you? I mean that bit I highlighted basically tells me you don't.
I couldn't give a monkeys fcuk what anyone thinks about me or what regard they hold me in with realtion to this stuff. Its not about sitting on a high horse or trying to appear to be noble to others.
Its about knowing you believe in something yourself, knowing what you think is right and what you think is wrong and knowing that you can live with yourself and look yourself in the eye each morning. Its got absolutely fcuking nothing to do with what anyone else thinks of you.

This is all gone a bit off topic and I apologise to the OP. All I will say is that I certainly haven't lambasted or disrespected anyone for saying the OP should just forget about it.
I do firmly stand by what I said, though, and strongly defend the OP's right to go against the grain on this one and want to make sure she knows that just giving in and going with the flow like the vast amount of people do in life/are suggesting on here is.

Very easy for you to say all that when you've no kids to look after and a bf to support you when you're out of work. You say it's nothing to do with what people think of you yet you've slated people who don't up and leave their jobs on principle and beliefs to the high heavens, if you don't want people to think you're a martyr or on your high horse it's probably best not to make statements like your full of piss or vinegar if you don't do XYZ, if you don't stand by your principles your full of hot air. It would go against some people beliefs to consciously rely on their partner for financial support for 9 months, did you ever think of that. Standing up for your beliefs is all well and good when you have a crutch to fall back on.

The Recliner

As fascinating as this conversation is between S23 and Danniboo is can we get back to the topic at hand and work with the information the Op has given us

Anything else is pure speculation and utterly irrelevant

krudler

Short of him being on a team of marketers to get kids smoking or someone who signs off orders to chop down rainforests, if hes only an employee then whats the issue, we all give money to unscrupulous corporations every day, do you have a car? well then you're directly supporting the war to get more oil for our transportation. Eat in Mcdonalds? you can find some appalling stuff about them if you look on the net, same goes for coke, nike, microsoft, tesco, asda, and countless others. In a perfect world we'd all work for companies that devote time to providing orphans with kittens to cuddle but in the real world, whether we want to or not, by buying a lot of everyday products and services we contribute.

If he sees it as just a job and isnt the head of a corporation then maybe he'll just use it as a ladder to another job somewhere else, would you rather he be unemployed?

LegacyUser

OP I've been in a similar position to you.
Boyfriend took a job that really went against everything I believed in.
What it did was make me realise I couldn't be with someone who thought about the world in a way that was so different to me! So I ended it.

It made me learn a lot about myself and about what I was looking for in a partner. I definitely wanted someone to be on the same wavelength as me and to share many of the values I have.

I could never date someone, for example, who works for Shell or a similar company. To me I would have no respect for the person.

I am now dating someone who shares my view and I couldn't be happier!

I'd encourage you to have a think about the importance of shared values and how this might impact on your relationship in other ways.

Gone Drinking

Get down off your high horse and support your boyfriend in his decision..

Danniboo

OP,

These are very personal decisions and if you feel you've done whats right for you and you're not gonna be left dying in the gutter because your OH gave up a job you didn't believe in then it's entirely up to you and what you feel is right. Don't feel pressured by other peoples views and beliefs they're not you're views and beliefs.

S23

Danniboo wrote: »

Very easy for you to say all that when you've no kids to look after and a bf to support you when you're out of work. You say it's nothing to do with what people think of you yet you've slated people who don't up and leave their jobs on principle and beliefs to the high heavens, if you don't want people to think you're a martyr or on your high horse it's probably best not to make statements like your full of piss or vinegar if you don't do XYZ, if you don't stand by your principles your full of hot air. It would go against some people beliefs to consciously rely on their partner for financial support for 9 months, did you ever think of that. Standing up for your beliefs is all well and good when you have a crutch to fall back on.

Are you not reading my posts? Or are you just being inaccurate because it suits your argument.

No I had no kids. I did have a dependent that I can assure you was financially costly as a child (at a guess a couple of kids). My girlfriend did not support me financially during this time any more or less than she would 'support' me now. She wasn't handing me huge wads of cash on a daily/weekly basis.

I do find it sad that you can't accept that this is something I was willing to do regardless of the consequences and trying to imply I relied heavily on my partner for financial support and used her as a 'crutch'. While I can quite easily accept a persons right to not follow through on their words with actions (and I fully understand why people do it in many cases) you seem incapable of accepting that a person can do something difficult for the sake of principle.

What is it thats so hard to accept about this? As I said I accept its not the social norm but can you not accept that its something a person can do without you having to resort to making innaccurate statements and bogus implications to try and justify your argument?

Why are you so keen to discredit the notion that someone can make a hard decision based on principle alone? I really don't understand why this bothers you so much.

Also, if you paid attention to what I say, I haven't slated anyone about anything. I have merely stated that there is a massive difference between saying you believe in something and saying you'd do this that and the next thing when it comes to the crunch and actually doing it.

I highlighted the fact that most people won't go so far as doing it and like to talk about their principles. I find this to be true in most cases. I didn't deride or belittle anyone because of this. I simply pointed out this is what happens a large percentage of the time. And I tried to highlight that while the OP may be in the minority if she follows through with her convictions that this is still okay and perfectly acceptable to go against the grain.

As for saying people who can't follow through are full of piss and vinegar. Yeah I stand by that completely.
For the record, yeah if you don't stand by your principles, guess what? They're not really your principles, its just some stuff you like to talk about but are incapable/unwilling to follow through on.

Heres an example that should clear it up.

Its akin to me saying I'm an avid support of PETA and strong believer in animal welfare rights while at the same time wearing a fur coat to work.

Which means more? Me saying I believe in animal rights, or me wearing the fur coat?
Is a strong support for animal welfare and rights part of my principles and beliefs because I talk about them. Or does it all amount to nothing because when it comes to the crunch my actions can't back up my words?

Its not rocket salad.


EDIT
Apologies The Recliner I was obviously in the process of typing this when you posted.

I would say, though, that some of it is relevant to the topic. I think the attempt to discredit the notion someone can make a hard choice without having a safety net purely based on principle is extremely relevant.

I think the OP will find far more people telling her to take the 'safe' option. While I respect their opinions and their reasons for giving them I want to highlight that the OP can take the road less travelled and point out that, while it can be a painful and difficult process, it can still be a rewarding one if she really believes in it

seamus

Ultimately this is the OP's boyfriend's decision to make. If he has no personal moral objection to the company, why shouldn't he take the job?

It's then up to the OP to decide if she can be with someone whose moral compass was that different to hers.

If she was a vegetarian and he wasn't, should he give up eating meat to satisfy her personal moral objections? Of course not. Exact same thing applies here.

If he's going against his own principles simply because of the money, then that's an entirely different matter altogether, but is ultimately his decision.

OP, you don't have to support every decision that your boyfriend makes. He's entitled to make them, all you have to do is decide whether you can live with the decision that you don't like.

LegacyUser

Many thanks I am glad I am not alone.
I have my princples and I was raised on the idea that "If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything" which has steered me fine so far. This is a big deal for me, I think BF thought as the country is up s..t creek mabye I'd come around. Money and status are not as important to me. I want him to be happy but I also want us to be a team who see the world in a similar (not identical) way.
I will compromise when I feel an argument is strong and correct but not just because everyone else can have half-assed principles.

Danniboo

S23 wrote: »

Are you not reading my posts? Or are you just being inaccurate because it suits your argument.

No I had no kids. I did have a dependent that I can assure you was financially costly as a child (at a guess a couple of kids). My girlfriend did not support me financially during this time any more or less than she would 'support' me now. She wasn't handing me huge wads of cash on a daily/weekly basis.

I do find it sad that you can't accept that this is something I was willing to do regardless of the consequences and trying to imply I relied heavily on my partner for financial support and used her as a 'crutch'. While I can quite easily accept a persons right to not follow through on their words with actions (and I fully understand why people do it in many cases) you seem incapable of accepting that a person can do something difficult for the sake of principle.

What is it thats so hard to accept about this? As I said I accept its not the social norm but can you not accept that its something a person can do without you having to resort to making innaccurate statements and bogus implications to try and justify your argument?

Why are you so keen to discredit the notion that someone can make a hard decision based on principle alone? I really don't understand why this bothers you so much.

Also, if you paid attention to what I say, I haven't slated anyone about anything. I have merely stated that there is a massive difference between saying you believe in something and saying you'd do this that and the next thing when it comes to the crunch and actually doing it.

I highlighted the fact that most people won't go so far as doing it and like to talk about their principles. I find this to be true in most cases. I didn't deride or belittle anyone because of this. I simply pointed out this is what happens a large percentage of the time. And I tried to highlight that while the OP may be in the minority if she follows through with her convictions that this is still okay and perfectly acceptable to go against the grain.

As for saying people who can't follow through are full of piss and vinegar. Yeah I stand by that completely.
For the record, yeah if you don't stand by your principles, guess what? They're not really your principles, its just some stuff you like to talk about but are incapable/unwilling to follow through on.

Heres an example that should clear it up.

Its akin to me saying I'm an avid support of PETA and strong believer in animal welfare rights while at the same time wearing a fur coat to work.

Which means more? Me saying I believe in animal rights, or me wearing the fur coat?
Is a strong support for animal welfare and rights part of my principles and beliefs because I talk about them. Or does it all amount to nothing because when it comes to the crunch my actions can't back up my words?

Its not rocket salad.


EDIT
Apologies The Recliner I was obviously in the process of typing this when you posted.

I would say, though, that some of it is relevant to the topic. I think the attempt to discredit the notion someone can make a hard choice without having a safety net purely based on principle is extremely relevant.

I think the OP will find far more people telling her to take the 'safe' option. While I respect their opinions and their reasons for giving them I want to highlight that the OP can take the road less travelled and point out that, while it can be a painful and difficult process, it can still be a rewarding one if she really believes in it

You had a safety net that's the whole point

G-Money

While there's nothing wrong with having your own opinions about this company, at the end of the day you don't work there anymore. I haven't read all the replies so I'm not sure if your bf likes it there or not. Regardless of whether he loves it or hates it, if he wants to stay there, that's his choice and in my opinion you're just going to have to deal with it.

Sorry for being blunt, but it's his career and if he's earning good money in a decent job and he's ok with working there, then I think you kind of just have to accept that.

If he was a drug dealer or something then I'd agree with you. But this case, he's not.

I understand that you didn't like it there and you don't like the companies policies, but I think you need to let go of that and focus on other things.

All the best OP.

Hrududu

dilemmaemma wrote: »

I also want us to be a team who see the world in a similar (not identical) way.

Sounds like you want to be a team where you both see things your way.

Cunsiderthis

dilemmaemma wrote: »

My BF works in a pretty recession proof industry and has been headhunted for a new job (little more money, he would find it much more interesting and its a step up career wise). However, its with a company I cannot stand because I really object to how they operate and how they treat their staff (I have experience of them myself).
He appreciates this but wants to go for it anyway. He knows how much I object to them (maybe I should put another thread in politics!!) but is going for an interview anyway.
How can I support him? Should I live with this, given the state the country is in can we afford principles?

It sound like you are wondering if you can afford principles on his behalf.

S23

Danniboo wrote: »

You had a safety net that's the whole point

I had a safety net? Really, what was that exaclty? You have no concept of what the time I was unemployed involved. You really don't have a clue what I went through. You have no idea of how much or how little money I had put by and what I had to go through. So your assumption I had a safety net is a hollow one.

You could have easily turned the argument on its head if I had said I had no dependents and no partner/wife. You could just have easily said then 'well sure you only had yourself to look after so it was easy for you to do'.

I had lived my life like any other person up until the point of quitting that job so of course I had inter personal realtionships with other people and of course I had accumulated certain things such as possessions, debts, friends, a home, a mortgage.
While the exact details vary, this is the same for any person basically. If you consider that a 'safety net' then every single person in the world has a safety net.

However, if you are implying that I had an easy time as soon as I quit that job then you're absolutely miles off. And if you are implying I only quit the job because I knew everything would work out fine then you are miles off. The 9 months between jobs was one of the toughest times in my life.

I know you are having a hard time concieving of it because you can't picture yourself doing it. However, look at it this way.

Throughout the course of human history literally millions upon millions of people have willingly and conciously done more than live on the bread line or go through lean times or end a relationship because of their principles. Millions of people from all over the world and running the full spectrum of backgrounds have given their lives or spent their lives in jail or endured unthinkable things merely for a principle or a belief.
While I don't compare myself or the OP's predicament to this this is something to bear in mind. Remember, just because most people thrown in the towel on their beliefs when the going gets tough for them (and as I said they are entitled to do so for various reasons) there are still plenty of people, whether you can fathom the concept or not, who are willing to go 'the whole way' for their principles and beliefs.

OP, I'm glad you can see you are not on your own. I fully respect your strong principles and you know its your decision to make.

I agree with Seamus here on this one. If your boyfriend wants to take the job then its not in your remit to try and stop him. You've voiced your objections and aired your beliefs on the matter.
He's as entitled to his beliefs as you are. And if he wants to take the job then thats his own business. Maybe you thought he held similar principles and would take the same strong stance you are and the fact that he's not doing so is a bit disappointing?

Anyway, as Seamus said, whether or not he takes the job is his business. All you can do is decide whether or not you are comfortable or willing to live with someone who is going to make this decision (and maybe others in the future who knows?) that are so directly in conflict with your own personal beliefs.

I would say we all disagree with our partners on our outlook on certain things. However, if it really is that big an issue to you in this case. And your morals, ethics and principles lead you to go against the trend and say 'you know what I can't be with you under these circumstances' as hard as that is its still perfectly fine.

It doesn't make you weird, it doesn't make you wrong, it doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't mean you don't love him. It just means you have firm beliefs that you truly, truly believe down to the core of your being and are willing to follow through on despite the fact it will be painful.


My last bit of advice on the matter is don't rush your decision. Really weigh it up. It seems to me you have real feelings for this partner of yours. I'd warrant a guess that if you weren't fully committed to him then you wouldn't have got as far as posting on these boards about this and your decision would have been a much easier one.

Best of luck to you.

LegacyUser

S23 wrote: »

I had a safety net? Really, what was that exaclty? You have no concept of what the time I was unemployed involved. You really don't have a clue what I went through. You have no idea of how much or how little money I had put by and what I had to go through. So your assumption I had a safety net is a hollow one.

You could have easily turned the argument on its head if I had said I had no dependents and no partner/wife. You could just have easily said then 'well sure you only had yourself to look after so it was easy for you to do'.

I had lived my life like any other person up until the point of quitting that job so of course I had inter personal realtionships with other people and of course I had accumulated certain things such as possessions, debts, friends, a home, a mortgage.
While the exact details vary, this is the same for any person basically. If you consider that a 'safety net' then every single person in the world has a safety net.

However, if you are implying that I had an easy time as soon as I quit that job then you're absolutely miles off. And if you are implying I only quit the job because I knew everything would work out fine then you are miles off. The 9 months between jobs was one of the toughest times in my life.

I know you are having a hard time concieving of it because you can't picture yourself doing it. However, look at it this way.

Throughout the course of human history literally millions upon millions of people have willingly and conciously done more than live on the bread line or go through lean times or end a relationship because of their principles. Millions of people from all over the world and running the full spectrum of backgrounds have given their lives or spent their lives in jail or endured unthinkable things merely for a principle or a belief.
While I don't compare myself or the OP's predicament to this this is something to bear in mind. Remember, just because most people thrown in the towel on their beliefs when the going gets tough for them (and as I said they are entitled to do so for various reasons) there are still plenty of people, whether you can fathom the concept or not, who are willing to go 'the whole way' for their principles and beliefs.

OP, I'm glad you can see you are not on your own. I fully respect your strong principles and you know its your decision to make.

I agree with Seamus here on this one. If your boyfriend wants to take the job then its not in your remit to try and stop him. You've voiced your objections and aired your beliefs on the matter.
He's as entitled to his beliefs as you are. And if he wants to take the job then thats his own business. Maybe you thought he held similar principles and would take the same strong stance you are and the fact that he's not doing so is a bit disappointing?

Anyway, as Seamus said, whether or not he takes the job is his business. All you can do is decide whether or not you are comfortable or willing to live with someone who is going to make this decision (and maybe others in the future who knows?) that are so directly in conflict with your own personal beliefs.

I would say we all disagree with our partners on our outlook on certain things. However, if it really is that big an issue to you in this case. And your morals, ethics and principles lead you to go against the trend and say 'you know what I can't be with you under these circumstances' as hard as that is its still perfectly fine.

It doesn't make you weird, it doesn't make you wrong, it doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't mean you don't love him. It just means you have firm beliefs that you truly, truly believe down to the core of your being and are willing to follow through on despite the fact it will be painful.


My last bit of advice on the matter is don't rush your decision. Really weigh it up. It seems to me you have real feelings for this partner of yours. I'd warrant a guess that if you weren't fully committed to him then you wouldn't have got as far as posting on these boards about this and your decision would have been a much easier one.

Best of luck to you.

I thank you for your fulsome contributions. I am very gratified that others think and act like I do.

metrovelvet

I havent read the whole thread.

If you were married to this man and had children with this man, and this man were working for a company that distributed weapons to child soldiers in Africa and you drove your bmw and fed your kids with the profits of such an enterprise I would call you an enabler and culpable in his amorality.

But if your OH is working for something like Ryanair, which has less than ideal circumstances and a questionable labour ethic and you are not taking any money from him or enabling him in any way, I would say... let it go. There are bigger fish to fry in the love stakes.

Ickle Magoo

dilemmaemma wrote: »

My BF works in a pretty recession proof industry and has been headhunted for a new job (little more money, he would find it much more interesting and its a step up career wise). However, its with a company I cannot stand because I really object to how they operate and how they treat their staff (I have experience of them myself).
He appreciates this but wants to go for it anyway. He knows how much I object to them (maybe I should put another thread in politics!!) but is going for an interview anyway.
How can I support him? Should I live with this, given the state the country is in can we afford principles?

You can afford your principles, certainly, but the decision of whether to go for interview with this company is entirely your bf's. I don't really see where your not being able to stand this company comes into it at this stage.

What job he has to do 9-5 for the next however many years should come down to what he can/can't do or wants to/doesn't want to do. I don't think asking him or even expecting him to work in a more boring job for less money just to satisfy your own principles - that he doesn't share - is going to be very healthy for your relationship in the longer run.

I think all you can do is to wait and see what happens, the interview may come to nothing; there's no point worry about something that may never happen. If he gets offered the job then you will have to discuss with him whether his taking the job would be a deal breaker for you and let him decide whether to accept the job despite your objections...and work from there...

Best of luck.

Victor

Can Danniboo and S23 take a break from this thread please?

Neyite

op,
i admire that you have principles, but it is up to your boyfriend to choose where he works, not you.

you have to choose then if you want to be with someone who may not be as strong in their opinions about that company as you are.

my oh and myself have always discussed potential employments, but ultimately i respect his decisions, even when i knew he was going into a job he would hate, and vice versa, but the decision to take/decline a job should always be with the person who was offered it.

LegacyUser

hi OP.

look, i'm from mayo. that should tell you enough about the company i'm about to discuss when i tell you that my other half went on the protest marches, carried the placards, etc etc etc.

but then we have bills, we have a mortgage, we want to build a life for ourselves and when an opportunity came up to work indirectly for this company he was torn. torn between his princilpes and his bank balance. torn between his friends/family and the fact that he would have steady well paid work in a climate where steady well paid work is thin on the ground.

he had sleepless nights, we had long long conversations about it, but in the end he decided that the offer of some financial security was too much of an opportunity to pass up. not that he was denying his principles, just parking them i suppose. deep down i'm not happy with him working there. but he's my partner, so i stand by him and his decisions and support him.

hopefully, whatever decision he comes to you can support your bf.

source

My GF isn't overly enamoured with my job, I work for an organisation which has a checkered past, involves very hard hours and an ever present danger that i may come home badly injured or not at all, but she knows that i actually enjoy it and that i'm good at what i do, so she respects my decision to do the job i do and supports my choice.