Patrick Neary - Gross negligence?

Dannyboy83

Isn't what Patrick Neary has done - i.e. gross negligence, a crime?

Is there any chance that he will be prosecuted?

CptMackey

Personally I think what he failed to do is worse than a normal crime.
He participated is the failure of the state and willingly did nothing.

Tried for treason too much to ask for?

Jaysoose

Cmon lads we all know he is sitting laughing at us with his golden handshake and massive pension safe in the knowledge that he will not be touched.

Drummerboy2

This is what happens when you put a banker in charge of bankers. Self regulating doesn't work.

Count Dooku

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

This is what happens when you put a banker in charge of bankers. Self regulating doesn't work.

He is not a banker, central bank is not a bank, it is state body, it means that he is a civil servant

Patrick Neary is chief executive of the Financial Regulator, which is responsible for the regulation of the financial services industry. He was appointed to the position in February 2006. Prior to this, he held the position of prudential director of the Financial Regulator from 2003. He is a fellow of the Chartered Association of Certified Accountants (FCCA) and was previously head of securities and exchanges supervision and deputy head of banking supervision in the Central Bank of Ireland, which he joined in 1971.

Jaysoose

Count Dooku wrote: »

He is not a banker, central bank is not a bank, it is state body, it means that he is a civil servant

Hence the disgusting pension and payoff as he left out the backdoor without any consequences for the massive failure of him and his department.

Figerty

True,, the images I saw of Neary would make you think he would look down his nose at you. He has a big pension but his reputation is shot.

The best way to deal with this guy is to completely ridicule him and his history.

In fact failure to regulate anything should be called 'doing a Neary' on it....

Gurgle

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Isn't what Patrick Neary has done - i.e. gross negligence, a crime?

Nope, he carried out his job as instructed by his superior - the minister of finance.

Is there any chance that he will be prosecuted?

Nope

The minister(s) of finance at the time though were elected representatives of the nation and took oaths of office which they failed to live up to.

This is treason.

Jaysoose

Figerty wrote: »

True,, the images I saw of Neary would make you think he would look down his nose at you. He has a big pension but his reputation is shot.

The best way to deal with this guy is to completely ridicule him and his history.

In fact failure to regulate anything should be called 'doing a Neary' on it....

I would prefer if the current goverment would hold him to account and demand he pay back his payoff and pension as its depressing to think we are going to be paying for him to play golf for the next 20 years.

I just dont understad how it is acceptable that he has been allowed walk into the sunset with his wallet stuffed with taxpayers money.

Count Dooku

Gurgle wrote: »

Nope, he carried out his job as instructed by his superior - the minister of finance.

Minister could only approve/disapprove head of financial regulator, but minister didn’t have full control over financial regulator
Article 108 of EU treaty clearly states that central banks must be independent from government, financial regulator was part of central bank before splitting in 2003, it means that it should have some independence from government

Article 108
When exercising the powers and carrying out the tasks and duties conferred upon them by this Treaty and the Statute of the ESCB, neither the ECB, nor a national central bank, nor any member of their decision-making bodies shall seek or take instructions from Community institutions or bodies, from any government of a Member State or from any other body. The Community institutions and bodies and the governments of the Member States undertake to respect this principle and not to seek to influence the members of the decision-making bodies of the ECB or of the national central banks in the performance of their tasks.

Skrynesaver

While I agree that it is nauseating to see him stroll off to the golf course for a retirement I'm funding, Gurgle is correct, he was effectively employed to not regulate the financial sector and look busy while doing it prior to his retirement.

The fact that Quinn insurance is now under control of the regulator (due to revelations about its capital adequacy) must be a shock to the old boys in Irish banking/broking. A regulator who acts on information, that's not the way we used to do things.

The fact that we havent regulated our financial sector prior to this (The old Manseragh "respect your betters" quote comes to mind) is a treasonable failure of this and previous FF/PD governemnts.

Unfortunately we won't see a thing done about it. This policy is going to cost us each 18K +interest over the next 10 to 15 years not to mention the additional costs that will be revealed as Anglo dies slowly.

And while I'm ranting, don't forget we're still paying a 2% levy for the PMPA failure in '82 which no doubt will be boosted a couple of points to cover Quinn's speculation fueled losses

Laminations

We should have a pension clawback levy. I'm thinking Bertie, Neary, Molly, Cowen when he goes. That or a lot of civil cases. People should not be rewarded for total incompetence on the job.

Dannyboy83

Skrynesaver wrote: »

While I agree that it is nauseating to see him stroll off to the golf course for a retirement I'm funding, Gurgle is correct, he was effectively employed to not regulate the financial sector and look busy while doing it prior to his retirement.

Tacitly, I agree, it's apparent that this is exactly what happened.
But legally, he was employed to regulate.
So legally, he should be guilty of gross negligence - the same way an Air Traffic controller would be if they were playing Tetris while a plane crashed and killed everyone on board.

And while I'm ranting, don't forget we're still paying a 2% levy for the PMPA failure in '82 which no doubt will be boosted a couple of points to cover Quinn's speculation fueled losses

Unless I'm mistaken, it was already confirmed this morning that we will.
It was in an article in the Irish Independent about Quinn.

Jaysoose

Laminations wrote: »

We should have a pension clawback levy. I'm thinking Bertie, Neary, Molly, Cowen when he goes. That or a lot of civil cases. People should not be rewarded for total incompetence on the job.

We need to be careful not confuse compitence with absolute corruption, dont start me on berty sitting on the back benches like butter wouldnt melt..he should be in jail.

who_ru

Neary fiddled while ireland burned?

Figerty

I like it!!!

AlekSmart

We need to be careful not confuse competence with absolute corruption

Hey Jaysoose,is there not a sense that we are approaching this rather uncomfortable decision very soon ?

It`s a very strong trait of the Irish physche to avoid the concept of personal responsibility,in fact it`s something we openly demean other nationalities for as we snigger at the Germans for waiting on the green-man to cross the road etc...;)

Now,however it`s looking as if we will HAVE to start finding INDIVIDUALS to hold responsible for their own actions...it`s not going to be a pretty sight either

murphaph

I've just emailed my TDs and requested that Mr. Neary have his pension stripped from him. I suggest you all do the same if you genuinely have a problem with it. If enough pressure is brought to bear on politicians, the will act how we want them to.

jkforde

A group email (takes a few minutes) by a few thousand of us boarders on a repeated basis might make them realise that there is an active movement for justice and that we're not all feckless and spineless.

This is a list of all the TDs:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=12684

and this is a list of the Seanad members:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=13858&&CatID=138

Come on, get off the arse & let's do something.

hinault

jkforde wrote: »

A group email (takes a few minutes) by a few thousand of us boarders on a repeated basis might make them realise that there is an active movement for justice and that we're not all feckless and spineless.

This is a list of all the TDs:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=12684

and this is a list of the Seanad members:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=13858&&CatID=138

Come on, get off the arse & let's do something.

Excellent suggestion.

Let's start emailing them and letting them know how we feel

jkforde

To make it as easy as possible here's a text file with the emails - just copy & paste into the To box!

Mods, these addresses are freely available on http://www.oireachtas.ie so I'm not posting anything confidential. :eek:

Oh, and here's a Thesaurus synonyms of servile: http://thesaurus.com/browse/servile

Are we?

Sizzler

Put up a similar thread on Mr.Neary recently

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65187073

alias141282

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Isn't what Patrick Neary has done - i.e. gross negligence, a crime?

Is there any chance that he will be prosecuted?

Definitely not negligence - it was State policy. Neary did the job he was asked to do. Remember this was when McCreevy was making speaches calling for even less regulation. The Dept. of Finance knew what was going on. If Neary had done his job he would have been removed by McCreevy/ Cowan/ Ahern.

He won't be prosecuted because he could implicate senior officials in the department of finance and even Cowan himself. The guy got a golden handshake and a fat pension, remember?

who_ru

neary is a scapegoat - as mentioned ahern, cowen, mcCreevy are the people responsible. as are those who voted for them.

Stabshauptmann

As the poster above me said, Neary is being scapegoated.

What did he do that was fraudulent, or negligent?
Neary was charged with enforcing regulations, some set by the FR office, some set by the EC.
There are no accusations I am aware of that any of the banks breached those regulations. They were solvent; they had adequate capital and good liquidity.

The problem was that the banks capital wasnt made up of cash (no banks capital ever is, that would be nonsense) and a sudden change in market circumstances lead to a sharp deterioration in the value of the banks assets.

The shinnanigans that went on at anglo looks more like breaches of companies law and a matter for the Gardai and ODCE, not the FR.

The poor lending decisions that are emerging as part of the NAMA process were bad business decisions, but didnt breach any regulations. Nor should regulations be made to cover lending practices; you cant dictate every aspect of how a private business should be run.

Neary wasnt asleep at the wheel. There were no big breaches that went unseen. The same banking crisis has engulfed every western economy.

Drumpot

Did neary not encourage the banks to cover up their shortfalls between themselves ? ? (Irish Perm loan to Anglo or Nationwide was endorsed)

Whatever about govt policy, thats massaging stock prices with falsified accounting (or something like that!) . .

Neary isnt being scapegoated, he is simply one of the tumours of the whole disgusting affair. Its like saying that Nazi Guards just did what was German Policy . . .

If he didnt like what he was being told to do (turn a blind eye to the banks on overcharging, lending etc), then he should of quit or raised it. Im sorry, but its simply a lack of moral courage on his part and ignorance is not an excuse.

bamboozle

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

This is what happens when you put a banker in charge of bankers. Self regulating doesn't work.

1 year studying latin in UCD followed by 30 years in the civil service

so not a banker, but was a great friend of the bankers and politicians.

he should be in jail and have his pension removed.

bamboozle

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

As the poster above me said, Neary is being scapegoated.

What did he do that was fraudulent, or negligent?
Neary was charged with enforcing regulations, some set by the FR office, some set by the EC.
There are no accusations I am aware of that any of the banks breached those regulations. They were solvent; they had adequate capital and good liquidity.

The problem was that the banks capital wasnt made up of cash (no banks capital ever is, that would be nonsense) and a sudden change in market circumstances lead to a sharp deterioration in the value of the banks assets.

The shinnanigans that went on at anglo looks more like breaches of companies law and a matter for the Gardai and ODCE, not the FR.

The poor lending decisions that are emerging as part of the NAMA process were bad business decisions, but didnt breach any regulations. Nor should regulations be made to cover lending practices; you cant dictate every aspect of how a private business should be run.

Neary wasnt asleep at the wheel. There were no big breaches that went unseen. The same banking crisis has engulfed every western economy.

the regulator was informed on over 50 occasions of breaches at Anglo.

Stabshauptmann

bamboozle wrote: »

the regulator was informed on over 50 occasions of breaches at Anglo.

When, what type of breaches, and what was the outcome? Have you a link to any articles?

Stabshauptmann

Drumpot wrote: »

Did neary not encourage the banks to cover up their shortfalls between themselves ? ? (Irish Perm loan to Anglo or Nationwide was endorsed) .

This is the first I've heard that he encouraged / endorsed it. Source?

bamboozle

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

When, what type of breaches, and what was the outcome? Have you a link to any articles?

it was on primetime a few weeks back a sunday business post journalist brought this up cant remember his name, the guy from compliance Ireland Peter Oakes was also on discussing this.

i would imagine it would relate to quarterly reports Anglo was obliged to file with the FR,

dan_d

If you go after Neary, you HAVE to go after the politicians at the time, the bankers at higher decision-making level, and probably a number of developers.
As a whole they contributed. It's unlikely one indiviual could have turned the tide. I'm not excusing them. That's the way it would have to go. I personally would love to see that happen, but I'm not holding my breath.