Denmaaaaaaaaaania!!!Again????

Whyno

Denman is "virtually certain" to run in next month's Coral Scottish Grand National at Ayr if conditions are deemed suitable.

Paul Nicholls' former Cheltenham Gold Cup winner, runner-up at Prestbury Park earlier this month, has been allotted top weight of 11st 12lb for the April 17 showpiece.

"I think Ayr is virtually certain if the ground is soft. However, if the ground is fast, or even good, he will not be running. It has got to be on the soft side," said joint-owner Paul Barber.

"Aintree has no chance and Punchestown has got some chance if the ground is right.

"Ayr would have as good a chance as anywhere, but it's all on the ground - he might end up not running in any. At that time of year it can come up quick at Ayr and if it's quick ground, he won't be there."

The second highest-rated contender, David Pipe's Madison Du Berlais, would carry only 10st 1lb if Denman ran.

Other notable contenders from further down the ratings include Lucinda Russell's Haydock Blue Square Gold Cup winner Silver By Nature and five entries from the Nicholls stable, including Big Fella Thanks.

Lindsey Smith, Ayr's marketing manager, said: "What a great boost it is for the Coral Scottish Grand National that Denman is amongst the entries.

"It underlines the standing the race has in the racing calendar and if Paul Nicholls does declare him it will create an unprecedented interest in the race."


If he runs this would be very exciting.

mr.jingle

Would be some performance to win giving that weight away! Is there an ante post market? Be interesting to see his odds

mike65

I'm talking tosh see below

However does Denman entering this mean that Nichols doesn't see him running at the top again? Is this the last big pot?

Whyno

mike65 wrote: »

I hope he runs, cos they'll be some first class horses that will be well in at the weights.

If hes in the same form as the GC and Hennessey it wont matter what sort of horses run in it There is no ap market up as yet as far as i can see but i guess Denman will be in the region 2-3/1.

UrbanSea

5/2 i see gentlemen.

RichieLawlor

mike65 wrote: »

I'm talking tosh see below

However does Denman entering this mean that Nichols doesn't see him running at the top again? Is this the last big pot?

I think your taking it up wrong, Nicholls is hardly thinking 'Denman is in decline so lets try give 2 stone to a horse who stuffed is twice last season'

Morgans

Will probably result in a far smaller field than usual if Denman turns up. Might end up being a clever piece of placing. I think he is far from certain to stay, but Ayr would be a great place to try. Could have the race won before they turn in. Grey Abbey won off top weight brilliantly a few years ago.

Whyno

Morgans wrote: »

Will probably result in a far smaller field than usual if Denman turns up. Might end up being a clever piece of placing. I think he is far from certain to stay, but Ayr would be a great place to try. Could have the race won before they turn in. Grey Abbey won off top weight brilliantly a few years ago.

Theres a good memory coming back.The big grey really loved running up der.Had a few quid on him that day to.

It has to be a great bit of placing by Nicholls and co and plus will give them a big pointer towards next seasons grand national. How he reacts over the marathon distance when pulling the ambulance along will give them a great indicator of how aintree will go next season. Hes not certain to stay but doesnt look as if he wont either so this will tell them how it all goes. He will surely frigthen away most of the real serious competitors.

bit of a bogey

I havent looked at the entries of the race but it could be a shrewd move by nicholls. Would probally force alot of the others to race whilst out of the handicap. If Denman does run, Im sure nicholls will have something else running in it too!

deewhy

agree - already started with Pipe sending Madison to Aintree GN as Denman going for Ayr. But at 5/2.... not for me. Silver by Nature is for me - sure to get placed at worst and will be a better value bet.

ricka

deewhy wrote: »

agree - already started with Pipe sending Madison to Aintree GN as Denman going for Ayr. But at 5/2.... not for me. Silver by Nature is for me - sure to get placed at worst and will be a better value bet.

Sorry Dot, I've created a monster:D

deewhy

ricka wrote: »

Sorry Dot, I've created a monster:D

what are your views on the race - just in case you didnt know Papillion is retired.

Whyno

Denman is likely to head to Punchestown after being ruled out of Saturday's Coral Scottish Grand National.

This year's Gold Cup runner-up was due to carry top weight in the Ayr feature, but drying conditions in Scotland have derailed his challenge.

The Paul Nicholls-trained chaser is instead poised to be rerouted to Ireland, where is he is being aimed at the Guinness Gold Cup on Wednesday week - as long as there is cut in the ground.

Joint-owner Paul Barber said: "It's disappointing as it looked a very good opportunity for him.

"But all the weather charts said there was not a drop of rain forecast so it was pointless waiting around.

"Even if Ayr watered it would have been good to firm whatever happened, so Paul wanted to tell everyone what we were doing in advance. We should hopefully be OK at Punchestown as they tend to get a lot more rain over there."

Barber also said Grand National hero Tony McCoy is likely to ride Denman in Ireland.

McCoy finished second on the 10-year-old gelding at Cheltenham in March and is set to deputise for the injured Ruby Walsh.

"All being well, Tony should be riding," added Barber.

"It should hopefully be another good day for racing

Thats books my ticket to punchestown

UrbanSea

Hope it doesnt dry too much here. Knowing our luck it would be the one tiime we get near good ground,when it isn't wanted.

Morgans

I wouldnt be willing to take any very short prices about Denman at Punchestown.

Several reasons, ground, not his type of course, murderous race at Cheltenham, followed up last season's gold cup with a below-par run. Could meet some opposition who missed Cheltenham.

Will be a long long way clear on ratings should he turn up, but if priced according to the ratings, will be shorter than he should be.

I had planned going to Punchestown the fri and sat but looks like I will be going the wednesday now if Denman runs. There is dry weather forcast though for the next week or two so I cannot see the ground being suitable.

Nulty

Both he and Dunguib are doubt because of good ground. The weather is a bastard! Heavy when you want it soft, Good when you want it soft.....:rolleyes:

arkle121

i would say they will water the course to get denman and dunguib there to big crowd pullers money talks with these courses you only have to look at fairyhouse ,

deewhy

arkle121 wrote: »

i would say they will water the course to get denman and dunguib there to big crowd pullers money talks with these courses you only have to look at fairyhouse ,

Outragous if they do that - whereas I understand your point and am fearful you might be right, I have an interest in a horse that runs next week. We have waited for more than a year for good ground in the right race - I will not be a happy camper if the ground comes up on any worse than good, good to soft. The whole point is to have safe jumping ground but not design a going to favour big named horses.

convert

Most racecourses water the ground so that there's a bit of a 'give' in it and so reduce the chances of jarring or injury as watering takes the 'shock' out of the ground.

arkle121

convert wrote: »

Most racecourses water the ground so that there's a bit of a 'give' in it and so reduce the chances of jarring or injury as watering takes the 'shock' out of the ground.

theres watering and over watering i just walked the track this morning in tramore and i would say its good to soft in places no watering ,they started watering punchestown last thursday.its not fair if you have a horse waiting for good ground to come .i have to agree with the previous poster

deewhy

arkle121 wrote: »

theres watering and over watering i just walked the track this morning in tramore and i would say its good to soft in places no watering ,they started watering punchestown last thursday.its not fair if you have a horse waiting for good ground to come .i have to agree with the previous poster

Precisely my point - C'ham got it right this year where they stopped watering on the run up. First two days suited good ground horses. When the rain arrived there was a change in the going that suited some horses and went against others. Same with Aintree - good ground horses suited by the ground... that is what racing is about.

convert

arkle121 wrote: »

theres watering and over watering i just walked the track this morning in tramore and i would say its good to soft in places no watering ,they started watering punchestown last thursday.its not fair if you have a horse waiting for good ground to come .i have to agree with the previous poster

Actually, if I was going to water a course or gallops I'd have started last week, too. No matter what is done by racecourses, how much or little they water it, or whether they water it at all, they are always going to be criticised.

And I'd much rather a safe cut in the ground than very good to firm ground. There's no way I'd run any horse, even one who really liked top of the ground, if a course hadn't been watered.

arkle121

convert wrote: »

Actually, if I was going to water a course or gallops I'd have started last week, too. No matter what is done by racecourses, how much or little they water it, or whether they water it at all, they are always going to be criticised.

And I'd much rather a safe cut in the ground than very good to firm ground. There's no way I'd run any horse, even one who really liked top of the ground, if a course hadn't been watered.

And I'd much rather a safe cut in the ground than very good to firm ground. There's no way I'd run any horse, even one who really liked top of the ground, if a course hadn't been watered

i agree with you there convert,at the end of the day there are dammed if they do and dammed if they dont its a no win situation for them

RichieLawlor

That Dowling clown in the News of the World is clueless, His actually said Joncol SHOULD beat Denman, but if Joncol is a non runner then Denman is the one to be on.

What a fool. Joncol may win but on no piece of form or ratings book anywhere SHOULD he beat Denman

mike65

Ahem

Shane732

I think it's pretty safe to say that the aul boy wasn't to keen on going that way round.

Colonel Sanders

made McCoy work for his riding fee today! Haven't seen a horse hang that badly in a long time. I think Nicholls made the old comment "he has his own way of doing things" these days. Although Denman actually finished respectfully enough considering how much further than the others he ran by going so wide and also jumping left

Nulty

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

made McCoy work for his riding fee today! Haven't seen a horse hang that badly in a long time. I think Nicholls made the old comment "he has his own way of doing things" these days. Although Denman actually finished respectfully enough considering how much further than the others he ran by going so wide and also jumping left

Never seen a horse do that before. Its the worst I've seen since Master Minded ran with the broken rib. Although I've not seen as much as you.

brandon_flowers

Backed Denman today for the first time in my life because I thought there was a bit of value at 6/4. Ran a stinker but I must say AP is some man to keep patience and still have a chance at the last. Only finished 6 lengths off the winner but must have covered 100 yards more than the others. I thought it was one of the best riding performances this year and the horse was still only 4th. Any man to ride a horse as powerful as Denman with both hands on one side of the rein is definitely made of iron.

Winner ran a blinder for Johnson & Hobbs and so did War of Attrition - a great way to bow out.

Colonel Sanders

brandon_flowers wrote: »

so did War of Attrition - a great way to bow out.

Agreed

Hope he has a happy retirement

I backed him at 6/4 aswell. I was up there and I was betting with my heart rather than my head. There was always a good chance he would run badly right handed. As other have said though considering he jumped very left on a lot of jumps and didnt jump well on top of that and with the ground not as he would like it was something else to get 4th.

There are not many, if any jockey who would have got him round today other than AP. It was some ride.

convert

Was great to see War of Attrition run so well for his last race. I'm really glad for him (and Mouse and O' Leary), though it really showed up the 'young' stars!

judas101

Saw a lot of people lose serious money on Denman today.

Had War placed and was chuffed he ran so well

jossnjuice

was down at punchestown yesterday and had a fair few bob on the tank....

knew by the first he wasnt having any of it,

saw mccoy being collared by nicholls on the way back in and AP said that he just didnt want to do anyhting he was asking all the way around, and that he was lucky to get the whole way around without pulling him up.

the hush in the crowd was sickening any time he jumped out, and at a couple of stages i was convinced he was actually going to run out of the race.

was in the ladbrokes tent later on, and one of the stablehands was talking to a serious punter, and overheard he had €4000 on him.

was a heart over head, as i knew he didnt like going the opposite direction, but il still be backing him anytime he runs. hes an absolute machine, and if his mind is in the right place, he can pound anything else thats up against him.

only downside was that joncol was a non runner, because i would have loved to have seen tank-v-tank, as joncol is absolutely huge.

Morgans

Have watched it again. Great ride by McCoy. Denman didnt enjoy going left handed and jumped out to the left. However, it was clear that he wasnt at his best long before the first turn. Ran in snatches.

There were plenty of horses on his outside or racing wider for most of the journey. Twice looked as if he wasnt going to run out and jumped somewhat going to left throughout, but only violently left at one for me.

Great horse, but like Imperial COmmander at aintree, the gold cup tends to bottom horses. Even those who won at Punchestown after their Gold Cup wins (7yos WOA, Kicking King) didnt return the following season in quite the same form. Hope there is one last hurrah next year in Denman, but he is becoming a very expensive horse to follow. Defintely keep to the left-handed tracks, but seems runs as many sulky races as sound ones these days.