Brian Lenihan today:"our previous regulatory system failed abysmally"

Slideshowbob

Brian Lenihan in the Dail today said:

"our previous regulatory system failed abysmally"

Reference:
http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6255

Who appointed those in our 'previous' regulatory system? :eek:

Was it effectively the same crew as in power at the moment?

peasant

indeed:

A Cheann Comhairle, the detailed information that has emerged from the banks in the course of the NAMA process is truly shocking. At every hand’s turn our worst fears have been surpassed.

Some institutions were worse than others. But the fact is that our banking system, to a greater or lesser extent, engaged in reckless property development lending. In too many cases there were also shoddy banking practices. The banks played fast and loose with the economic interests of this country.

...and the regulator that was to oversee it all was sent home with a golden handshake and a pension

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/euro630000-golden--handshake-for-the-bungling-banks-watchdog-pat-neary-1635637.html

Liam Byrne

Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, our Brian....he spotted this TODAY ???

I wonder if he'd done his f**king job and bothered reading the report about Anglo 18 months ago whether he'd have come out and admitted all that BACK THEN, when it would have been of use to us?

No - leave it til now when he's paddled us up **** creek. :mad:

Then again, people in glasshouses tend not to throw stones.

peasant

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, our Brian.....

Give him some credit.
He's doing a pretty good job at deflecting blame from FF

First he set public and private sector employees at each other and now the rethoric has changed towards villifying the banks. Not that he's wrong in pouring vitriol over the banks, but still he's conveniently ignoring the governements (Berties' and Biffos') role in all this.

Slideshowbob

Lads,

Thanks for comments but you are missing the essence of my point.

The regime today admitted their appointees f**ked up - plain and simple!

Time for change! even if it's for change's sake!!

peasant

Time for change was at the last election, at the latest

Liam Byrne

peasant wrote: »

....now the rethoric has changed towards villifying the banks. Not that he's wrong in pouring vitriol over the banks, but still he's conveniently ignoring the governements (Berties' and Biffos') role in all this.

Not to mention that he only started shouting AFTER their pay rises and appointments of people he said he didn't want and payoffs and interest hikes and everything else...... :mad:

oppenheimer1

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, our Brian....he spotted this TODAY ???

Well if you're going to make it personal, you may as well make it true. Brian Leinhan is an extremely intelligent man.(from Wikipedia) He was educated at Trinity College, Dublin (Foundation Scholar, LL.B. (First Class)), Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge (LL.B. (First Class)) and the King's Inns.at

Having taken the exam he took at Trinity College, I can safely say 99% of the people in this country couldn't touch him intellectually.

Johnboy1951

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Well if you're going to make it personal, you may as well make it true. Brian Leinhan is an extremely intelligent man.(from Wikipedia) He was educated at Trinity College, Dublin (Foundation Scholar, LL.B. (First Class)), Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge (LL.B. (First Class)) and the King's Inns.at

Having taken the exam he took at Trinity College, I can safely say 99% of the people in this country couldn't touch him intellectually.

It appears that the old saying is true so ......

qualifications do not imply competence

Pete M.

He's Guilty:eek::eek:

of stating the obvious.

Just saying what everyone knows to be true.

He's not exaggerating though or underestimating, he's bang on.

Failed abysmally is right. No spin to be had there.

sceptre

I'd rather Lenihan said it today than didn't say it at all.

peasant

sceptre wrote: »

I'd rather Lenihan said it today than didn't say it at all.

srsly?

What choice did he have?

There is leading people by the nose and the there is calling them idiots to their face. He couldn't go that far, now could he

Slick50

It took him a while to spot this glaring point alright, he still doesn't seem to have seen why he shouldn't have let the then "financial regulator", walk away with a sh*t load of our cash.

IrishTonyO

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Well if you're going to make it personal, you may as well make it true. Brian Leinhan is an extremely intelligent man.(from Wikipedia) He was educated at Trinity College, Dublin (Foundation Scholar, LL.B. (First Class)), Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge (LL.B. (First Class)) and the King's Inns.at

Having taken the exam he took at Trinity College, I can safely say 99% of the people in this country couldn't touch him intellectually.

You can be highly intelligent and educated and yet still not be the brightest but don't think that is true in Lenihan's case.

sceptre

peasant wrote: »

srsly?

What choice did he have?

There is leading people by the nose and the there is calling them idiots to their face. He couldn't go that far, now could he

People before him have and I fear that people after him will also...

Obviously I'd much prefer that he would have said it 18 months ago or better again a few years ago, prevention being better and in this case definitely much less painful than cure. Especially as his department set the rules under which the regulators operated. In the UK, ministers resign over things like that whereas here they get elected Taoiseach.

The first step towards personal recovery consisting of the admittance of a problem (and hoping that our finance minister skips step 2 of the 12 step plan), perhaps the next useful thing in a "sorry about the famine and slavery lads" sort of way might perhaps be "and we set the rules for the people setting the rules so it's our fault too". Or maybe not but I live in hope.

But I'd still rather he said it than not said it. He's not aiming that speeach at the likes of you and me - it's for the people with "millons and billons" of dollars, as our new Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Innovation might say. Or, well, "millons and billons" of euros as they formerly used Deutschmarks every day in Frankfurt while they read finance minister speeches.

My first draft at an answer consisted solely of "You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment":)

Atlantic Dawn

Cowen was Minister of Finance while all this was going on, now he is Taoiseach :rolleyes:

peasant

sceptre wrote: »

Or maybe not but I live in hope.

Friedrich Nietzsche:
Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torments of man.

Slideshowbob

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Cowen was Minister of Finance while all this was going on, now he is Taoiseach :rolleyes:

That's it lads - keep it simple!

Thanks

poppyvalley

IrishTonyO wrote: »

You can be highly intelligent and educated and yet still not be the brightest but don't think that is true in Lenihan's case.

As Arthur Morgan said "Put it to the People" I have no political predlections but he's righgt in view of tonights Dail vote.The present Govt. do not have a mandate for this action.

Slideshowbob

It's nothing to do with intelligence. Einstein never made a great economist but my ma knows how to look after the household budget.

Go back to original post maybe!!??

The point is these guys fu*ked up and they admitted it today!

That's enough meat for Cowen to get outta the snake-pit!

Mr.Micro

Financial Regulation in Ireland....was there ever? Is there now? Mr.Lenihan surely knows the answer to both is no. So no use in pointing the finger as most people by now know the score. FF have had a major hand in all this, Ahern and Cowen et al, no doubt about it. Nonsense planning laws or should I say non-existent, since they were over ruled by County Councillors, TD's as if they did not exist. FF in bed with the developers from the start. Look closer to home Mr.Lenihan.

Slideshowbob

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Financial Regulation in Ireland....was there ever? Is there now? Mr.Lenihan surely knows the answer to both is no. So point in pointing the finger as most people by now know the score. FF have had a major hand Ahern and Cowen et al no doubt about it. Nonsense planning laws or should I say no-existent since the were over ruled by County Councillors, TD's as if they did not exist. FF in bed with the developers from the start. Look closer to home Mr.Lenihan.

Blaming planning is a bit off the mark in my opinion - it goes back to finance.

When a project gets planning it still can't start without ..... Finance!! from ..... Banks!! - regulated by Regulator!

Don't loose focus lads - keep your eye on the Ball!

Mr.Micro

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Blaming planning is a bit off the mark in my opinion - it goes back to finance.

When a project gets planning it still can't start without ..... Finance!! from ..... Banks!! - regulated by Regulator!

Don't loose focus lads - keep your eye on the Ball!

The likes of Lawlor and many other politicians were camped in planning departments to get applications through week after week so as to bully the planners to get multi million projects through, lands rezoned etc. All development led and corrupt.

oppenheimer1

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Financial Regulation in Ireland....was there ever? Is there now? Mr.Lenihan surely knows the answer to both is no. So no use in pointing the finger as most people by now know the score. FF have had a major hand in all this, Ahern and Cowen et al, no doubt about it. Nonsense planning laws or should I say non-existent, since they were over ruled by County Councillors, TD's as if they did not exist. FF in bed with the developers from the start. Look closer to home Mr.Lenihan.

It wasn't just in FF controlled councils that terrible planning decisions were made.

oppenheimer1

poppyvalley wrote: »

As Arthur Morgan said "Put it to the People" I have no political predlections but he's righgt in view of tonights Dail vote.The present Govt. do not have a mandate for this action.

I don't believe in putting complicated legislation like this to a referendum. Look at what happened to Lisbon, argued on everything but the actual issues.

ascanbe

sceptre wrote: »

I'd rather Lenihan said it today than didn't say it at all.

Said what? He didn't even hint that his party had responsibility.
A government minister deflecting blame onto the regulator his government controlled is something we should be thankful for? That's the level of accountability we should be glad to accept?
And much of our media wouldn't even dare ask for that...

sceptre

ascanbe wrote: »

Said what? He didn't even hint that his party had responsibility.
A government minister deflecting blame onto the regulator his government controlled is something we should be thankful for? That's the level of accountability we should be glad to accept?
And much of our media wouldn't even dare ask for that...

See paragraph 3 of my second post.:)

dan_d

It's taken 18months, but we've finally got to where we're admitting there's a big, f%*king problem!

Next step is what they are going to do about those who facilitated the "abysmal practices".

As I said before, (maybe it was in this thread), I think it's time to draw a line under the whole sorry mess, and concentrate our efforts on getting the country back on line and running again. We'll be paying for the mess for years to come, and we've wasted enough time and energy on talking about it now....so I personally think it's time to change our focus, get the country going and concentrate on making sure this is never allowed to happen again.

peasant

dan_d wrote: »

it's time to change our focus, get the country going and concentrate on making sure this is never allowed to happen again.

Step 1:

remove those from positions of responsibility who allowed and facilitated it to happen in the first place. Do not charge these people with fixing it.

zootroid

dan_d wrote: »

It's taken 18months, but we've finally got to where we're admitting there's a big, f%*king problem!

Next step is what they are going to do about those who facilitated the "abysmal practices".

As I said before, (maybe it was in this thread), I think it's time to draw a line under the whole sorry mess, and concentrate our efforts on getting the country back on line and running again. We'll be paying for the mess for years to come, and we've wasted enough time and energy on talking about it now....so I personally think it's time to change our focus, get the country going and concentrate on making sure this is never allowed to happen again.

The only way you can draw a line under it is by holding those responsible to account. From this perspective, I really hope FF are decimated at the next general election. Simply saying whats "done is done, lets look to the future" is not good enough, it rewards failure and incompetence, and encourages future risky behaviour.

With regards to previous posts about Lenihan's intellect, I have no doubt he is an intelligent man, but probably not best suited to finance. He has grown on me though, he's probably the only FF TD that would instill you with confidence, and comes across as being honest (which the vast majority of politicians fail to do). I think he would be a far better Taoiseach than Cowen. But I would still prefer to see FF annihilated and Richard Bruton put in as minister for finance.

Liam Byrne

zootroid wrote: »

With regards to previous posts about Lenihan's intellect, I have no doubt he is an intelligent man, but probably not best suited to finance.

Maybe I was a bit harsh, but in all fairness he is the one that signed us up for this fiasco without bothering to read the relevant report on Anglo.

And THAT step is precisely the reason why we are where we are; spending billions and billions on a useless bank.

Richard Bruton was on Vincent Browne last night and ridiculed most of the claims that Eamonn Ryan made, and somewhere in amongst being talked over by Ryan - whose tactic seemed to be that by talking long enough he could avoid being contradicted - Bruton made some great points.

zootroid wrote: »

He has grown on me though, he's probably the only FF TD that would instill you with confidence,

Sorry, I can't agree. The "getting tough with the banks" came AFTER all their crap decisions were made. He's part of a massive orchestration to make it "seem" like he's getting tough. He should have gotten tough 18 months ago when he signed away our future in a panic.

zootroid wrote: »

and comes across as being honest (which the vast majority of politicians fail to do).

Without wanting to insult Lenihan more than I already have, Ahern "came across" as honest, too........I still don't think I'd put them in the same bracket, though.

zootroid wrote: »

But I would still prefer to see FF annihilated and Richard Bruton put in as minister for finance.

Amen.

murphaph

poppyvalley wrote: »

As Arthur Morgan said "Put it to the People" I have no political predlections but he's righgt in view of tonights Dail vote.The present Govt. do not have a mandate for this action.

Of course they have. They are the democratically elected government. We put them there (too many times!). You can't pick and choose what legislation your elected government introduces. This is one of the 'downsides' of democracy but it's better than the alternative IMO.

Amhran Nua

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Well if you're going to make it personal, you may as well make it true. Brian Leinhan is an extremely intelligent man.(from Wikipedia) He was educated at Trinity College, Dublin (Foundation Scholar, LL.B. (First Class)), Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge (LL.B. (First Class)) and the King's Inns.at

Having taken the exam he took at Trinity College, I can safely say 99% of the people in this country couldn't touch him intellectually.

Is that why he was boning up on economics 101 at the McWilliams household in the wee hours of the morning a while back? I wouldn't gve much credence to the best biologist in the world if he released a paper on electronic engineering. He might be doing his best in a bad spot having had the hot seat thrust upon him but its costing us dearly.