Services on Motorways

big mce

Hi All,

Can some-one please explain to me why on the major routes where the services development has started are been based on both sides of the road?

Surely this is a very expensive option of having duplicate sites, buildings, staffing when perhaps a bridge or joining tunnel would have been cheaper?

I know other countries have services on both sides of the road but we are only a small country?

L1011

Short sighted cash saving attempt to avoid the cost/disruption of a bridge.

MSAs being built on new motorways will be single-sided with bridge; but it appears the retro-fitted ones are going to generally be dual-sided.

merchant08

Very very shortsighted and very irish.

All we are going to get is 2 very crappy service stations on each side of the Motorway, neither being economically viable to be open 24hrs a day.

And they say the NRA is one of the better run Gov companies

Tigerbaby

I contacted NRA a few months ago about this. Motorways are exhausting, boring and sleep-inducing.

NRA said they are "rolling-out" service stops . I think the first 2 are for the M1, and 1 more on the M11. They had no news about other Motorways.

There should be service stops every 30-40 Kms like in UK.

Mental !!

merchant08

Tigerbaby wrote: »

I contacted NRA a few months ago about this. Motorways are exhausting, boring and sleep-inducing.

NRA said they are "rolling-out" service stops . I think the first 2 are for the M1, and 1 more on the M11. They had no news about other Motorways.

There should be service stops every 30-40 Kms like in UK.

Mental !!

they also have one well underway on the M4 near enfield, that together with the Athlone service statio(Kilmartins) which is only 2mins of a drive off the motorway is more than enough on the gal-dub route and that is about 200ks long.

Every 100kms is deff enough of a gap for services, if you cant drive for an hour without stopping then you shouldnt be driving. Plus there are loads of towns literally 3mins of allot of the junctions. The volume of cars on irish rds versus UK roads is tiny.

I for one wont be using the new service stations, im presuming that they will be like the UK ones, fuel way more expensive than normal, really sh!t food, really crap service.

L1011

The UK's distance was set in the era when most cars could not cope with being driven at 70mph for long periods of time (overheating, as well as smaller fuel tanks). The NRA's distance is grand if they'd build ALL of their proposed services.

They will be open 24hrs but I don't think they're required to have hot food 24hrs. The food will be standard Applegreen hot deli and a Burger King at the 3(x2) being built now; future ones may be operated by other firms.

Amtmann

About the Burger King: Has BK won the contract for ALL as yet unbuilt service areas, or just the ones under construction?

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

About the Burger King: Has BK won the contract for ALL as yet unbuilt service areas, or just the ones under construction?

The unbuilt service areas seem to have provision for two food concessionaires. While I would hope BK wouldn't get a contract, at least there is the possibly of some sort of decent alternative being in place.

roosterman71

Abrakebabra are trying to buy land next to the new M8 near Ballacolla for a future service station

L1011

Furet wrote: »

About the Burger King: Has BK won the contract for ALL as yet unbuilt service areas, or just the ones under construction?

No. SuperStop has won the ones under construction and BK will be in all SuperStop (and larger normal Applegreen) sites.

All other ones will be tendered for although I seem to recall the N11 Gorey and the M20 ones are being bundled with roads PPPs, e.g. the PPP concessionaire will supply an operator.

damoz

merchant08 wrote: »

Every 100kms is deff enough of a gap for services, if you cant drive for an hour without stopping then you shouldnt be driving. Plus there are loads of towns literally 3mins of allot of the junctions. The volume of cars on irish rds versus UK roads is tiny.

I for one wont be using the new service stations, im presuming that they will be like the UK ones, fuel way more expensive than normal, really sh!t food, really crap service.

I take it you dont have kids. Unfortunately they are not pre-programmed to 100km toilet stops.

murphaph

damoz wrote: »

I take it you dont have kids. Unfortunately they are not pre-programmed to 100km toilet stops.

Germany has toilet areas along the motorway spaced in between the proper service areas. These could be added to the irish network at little cost, but would need maintaining.

marmurr1916

Maybe some enterprising person will do an Irish version of this site?

http://www.offmotorway.com/

Would be even handier if the information was available on sat navs.

marmurr1916

Furet wrote: »

About the Burger King: Has BK won the contract for ALL as yet unbuilt service areas, or just the ones under construction?

Hopefully not, although it looks like we'll be going down the British road of mass-market, fast-food outlets at MSAs.

It could be different, as this rare example from England shows:

My destination is Tebay near Penrith, a service station built by the Dunning family when the M6 cut a swathe through their farm in the Sixties; rather than flee in horror, the family built a service station, which they still run. The good news is they now plan to open a similar one in Gloucestershire.

As soon as you enter, you wonder why all service stations can't be like this. You sit overlooking a pond and farmland, scoffing grub produced on site, from a serviceable steak and ale pie to pub-standard roasts and freshly made cakes. You can pick up a burger, but rather than from Wimpy, these will be courtesy of the farm's own herd.

Even the shops fail to antagonise, with an almost comically upmarket butcher and a newsagent where, unusually, it's a pleasure to browse. There is also a fun play area for kids.

My frustration? That this is so simple, so obvious. It's not as if all the food is even that amazing – I've eaten slightly better in French and Italian service stations – so surely other British sites could match it?

To hell with Burgerking! Let's get the Dunnings over.

L1011

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Maybe some enterprising person will do an Irish version of this site?

http://www.offmotorway.com/

Would be even handier if the information was available on sat navs.

I have the domain, about 60% of the data, and no bloody time...

marmurr1916

MYOB wrote: »

I have the domain, about 60% of the data, and no bloody time...

You could give this lot a shout - they might be able to sort it out.

http://whois.domaintools.com/offmotorway.com

ForiegnNational

I have a question, why is the NRA paying for the service stations?

I am sure that private consortiums would gladly fund the building of the MSA’s as long as they get the guarantee of the income from the site. I know that there is a private consortium building the non-NRA MSA in Cahir, surely this is the most cost effective model?

The NRA would specify the design guidelines, the minimum separation between ventures, etc, but this would provide a zero cost improvement to the Motorway network. I really don’t care if the NRA or Total/Shell/Abrakababra/Burger King/etc own the Service Station, I just need somewhere to stop for a pee and a coffee!

Geogregor

ForiegnNational wrote: »

I have a question, why is the NRA paying for the service stations?

I am sure that private consortiums would gladly fund the building of the MSA’s as long as they get the guarantee of the income from the site. I know that there is a private consortium building the non-NRA MSA in Cahir, surely this is the most cost effective model?

The NRA would specify the design guidelines, the minimum separation between ventures, etc, but this would provide a zero cost improvement to the Motorway network. I really don’t care if the NRA or Total/Shell/Abrakababra/Burger King/etc own the Service Station, I just need somewhere to stop for a pee and a coffee!

Does NRA really pay for this services?
Weird. Why? I agree with ForiegnNational that companies should rather pay for right to build them.
That's how it works in Poland. When we build motorway we build "naked" services. They are essentially all the slip roads, parking, toilet and space for future services. Then road authority organize auction for 30 years lease of each site.Sometimes they might be bundled together in groups. Bidding consortia usually are big petrol chains (Shell already won some) with some food chains like McDonald or Autogrill. Now, whoever wins the bid have to build petrol station and food place from their own money, pay annual fee and also percentage of sale for each site. They are also responsible for maintaining of each site during the lease period.
It is a great business for both sides.
I can't remember what distances are between them but it is something around 30km or even less.

L1011

The NRA is paying some of the costs of each - the land price at the very least, possibly more.