Divorce Foreign national

atkin

Hi,
I am an Irish citizen married to a foreign national.
This woman came here sought asylum 2001 and married me in June 2006.
The marriage was one of convenience to allow her daughter to come here and for her to get residence.A stamp 4 was entered on her passport which expires in Feb 2012.I am refusing to sign any forms for naturalisation or to attend the Garda immigration for the stamp to be renewed.
The situation now is we live separate lives in my house.
I want to get a divorce or even an annulment if that is possible.A Divorce or Judicial Separation requires that you must live at separate addresses .The fact that we remain in the same house makes it difficult,although they have been grated if the couples live separate lives. I cannot leave my house as she could have rights to remain there .
I have spoken with a solicitor but she is at present not sure of the best move to make.
Any ideas,Thanks.
Atkin

OS119

this is probably more legal than marriage...

you may want to talk to a specialized immigration/asylum solicitor, rather than a divorce lawyer - you want to know what happens to this woman and your marriage if you refuse to continue the naturalisation process. its distasteful, but if she gets put on a plane to the far side of the world she's not really your problem anymore.

as an extreme course of action - not a recommended one - you could report yourself to the Gardai and immigration authorities for entering into a sham marriage. lots of marriages are sham marriages, but - certainly in the UK - entering into a marriage purely to gain an immigration status is a criminal offence, its possible (hence you really, really needing to talk to a specialist immigration/asylum lawyer, rather than you local branch of Grabbit and Sue who normally do wills, the odd divorce and drink-driving) that its a similar offence in the RoI and that if such a marriage were declared by a court a 'sham' immigration marriage, its possible that it would be annulled, meaning she goes home, you don't need a divorce, but you also get a criminal record, a fine and possibly imprisonment.

you really, really want a specialist immigration/asylum lawyer...

Bugnug

atkin wrote: »

Hi,
I am an Irish citizen married to a foreign national.
This woman came here sought asylum 2001 and married me in June 2006.
The marriage was one of convenience to allow her daughter to come here and for her to get residence.A stamp 4 was entered on her passport which expires in Feb 2012.I am refusing to sign any forms for naturalisation or to attend the Garda immigration for the stamp to be renewed.
The situation now is we live separate lives in my house.
I want to get a divorce or even an annulment if that is possible.A Divorce or Judicial Separation requires that you must live at separate addresses .The fact that we remain in the same house makes it difficult,although they have been grated if the couples live separate lives. I cannot leave my house as she could have rights to remain there .
I have spoken with a solicitor but she is at present not sure of the best move to make.
Any ideas,Thanks.
Atkin

I wouldn't normally do this but your behaviour is disgraceful. You made your bed now lie in it.

Yawns

Bugnug wrote: »

I wouldn't normally do this but your behaviour is disgraceful. You made your bed now lie in it.

Was that a hint at a marriage bed?


I agree tho. You entered this arrangment now deal with it. Perhaps a court will send her home and give you a criminal record so you might have a lasting impression to think things through in future.

How Strange

A divorce if it goes to court could cost you up to €20k for legal fees.
Get yourself a specialised solicitor. I know one couple where legal fees for a contested and acrimonious divorce cost €15k each so far. There was an article in yesterday's Irish Times about divorce and one thing it mentioned is that a couple who's marriage has broken down but who still live together can register as separated if they fulfil certain criteria.

I presume your Mrs isn't going to give up on her entitlement to naturalisation without a fight. The other option, as other posters have said, is go to the gardai, denounce the whole thing as a sham and face criminal prosecution for breaking the law.

I've not got an ounce of sympathy for you. You entered into a sham marriage and now you're looking for ways to end it.

punkindrublic

Bugnug wrote: »

I wouldn't normally do this but your behaviour is disgraceful. You made your bed now lie in it.

Ditto!
Also you entered the marraige to help her daughte come here now you want to send the both of them back because it's not convenient for you anymore?? Didn't you think of these situations before you married her 8-|

tatli_lokma

punkindrublic wrote: »

Ditto!
Also you entered the marraige to help her daughte come here now you want to send the both of them back because it's not convenient for you anymore?? Didn't you think of these situations before you married her 8-|

+1. As an Irish citizen marriend to a Non-EU national, I had to jump through so many hoops to get all the paperwork covered, and many months of stress and worry waiting to see if they would let him stay. People who make a mockery of the system make me sick - it is sham situations that mean genuine couples like us have such a hard time.

On the other hand, it it is not clear from your post if you chose to have a marriage of convenience or if you feel you were duped into marrying this woman and she had ulterior motives which you are only now aware of. If you feel duped then you have my sympathies - no one wants to find out that someone only married them for a visa and now they have the visa they treat their partner badly.

However if you knew she was only marrying you to get residency and bring her daughter here, then I have no sympathy for you and I am appalled at your behaviour.

How Strange wrote: »

I presume your Mrs isn't going to give up on her entitlement to naturalisation without a fight. The other option, as other posters have said, is go to the gardai, denounce the whole thing as a sham and face criminal prosecution for breaking the law.

I probably shouldn't be giving you any advice on this, but in case it is that you were 'duped' into the marriage, here is something to be aware of.....your Mrs doesn't actually have any "entitlement" to stay if the marriage is not genuine. From what you say about her stamp 4 then it sounds like she got residency on the basis of being the spouse of an Irish citizen - you can contact the Spouse of an Irish national section and advise them that the marriage is in the process of breaking up. In effect you can 'revoke' your sponsorship of her. If you tell them that you are no longer 'together' they may revoke her residency (living together is not enough, the relationship has to be real and a marriage in a genuine sense). She would have no entitlement to naturalisation just for being married to you, and if you do not assist in this process she won't get it on that basis and will have to apply in an alternative manner.

atkin

Hi ,
Thank you for the replies.
'' Make you bed now lie in it'' .I forgot to put this in my first post .I knew I would get such a reply.
I was duped into this marriage .
My wife can get a deed of separation and a council house.This she refuses to do until she gets an Irish passport .I would be more worried about her if she does get an Irish passport.I would find it even more difficult to get a divorce.I have a Legal Aid solicitor who is to confer with a barrister on this matter.I await their advice on what action to take.I guess an appointment with an immigration solicitor would give me some advice.
I helped this woman so much over the years but she was so ungrateful.

Thanks for you input, even ''the make your own bed now lie in it''.To the one who is appalled your not as appalled as I am .
Regards,
Atkin.

tatli_lokma

I was the one who said I was appalled, but if you read my post you will find that what I said was:

On the other hand, it it is not clear from your post if you chose to have a marriage of convenience or if you feel you were duped into marrying this woman and she had ulterior motives which you are only now aware of. If you feel duped then you have my sympathies - no one wants to find out that someone only married them for a visa and now they have the visa they treat their partner badly.

However if you knew she was only marrying you to get residency and bring her daughter here, then I have no sympathy for you and I am appalled at your behaviour.

Now that I see you married in good faith but have since found out she married you for ulterior motives you have my sympathy. i know a few people who have been hoodwinked like this and not only do you grieve for an ended marriage as anyone would, you also have the added insult to your pride feeling like they never loved you. I have no time for people who use the immigration system in this way, and I understand your frustration.

As I said, your spouse got a spousal residence on the basis of your marriage being genuine and your 'sponsorship' (for want of a better word) of her. you can withdraw this and advise INIS of the change of situation.

TurkeyBurger

atkin wrote: »

My wife can get a deed of separation and a council house.

Council house funded by whom? The taxpayer? After she knowingly defrauded (attempted to defraud) the system? While you are attempting to sort out your problem, any chance you could inform Social Welfare and any other relevant parties of her status?

If she knowingly attempted to defraud the system, she should have an entitlement to absolutely nothing in this country.

meditraitor

Your wife is here illegally and thus should be sent home. Johnny taxpayer has enough on his plate without babysitting the wife(and her kid) of a sham marrage.

atkin

My wife has 4 children who are living here .I have many who say she has no right to be here and used the system.There is also a question of conscience as theses children are 19,15,12 and 11 years.My wife is self employed and pays tax .
A daughter is attending an Irish school and another a champion Irish dancer .I remember a French Professor from my past who taught foreigners said they can become ''premier natives''.
I lived with this woman for 5 years before marriage.The total amount of time in this country is now 9 years.I looked for every means not to marry her.What is bizarre is how she kept her true feelings for such a long time.
There is always an agenda in any relationship to find the hidden one is the skill.

Yawns

She had no children in this country?

Inform Social Services and Imi. of what has happened and how you fell for her trap.

tatli_lokma

atkin wrote: »

I looked for every means not to marry her.

???????

you marry someone cos you love them and want to spend the rest of your life with them - at least that is how it should be. If you did not want to marry her for these reasons and were looking for excuses not to marry her, then this should have been a red flag to you. If you felt this way, then you knew something was amiss but married anyway.

It was therefore your choice to marry, and unlike what you said earlier you were not duped. You may have felt, pressured/obligated to marry her, but at the end of the day it was your choice.

Now things have not gone to plan, you cannot simply wash your hands of the situation. You have become a step father to these children, you participated in taking them from the home they knew and bringing them to a new country and a new life. It is not fair on them that you now want to have their mother and possibly them deported.

I have lost any sympathy or understanding for you now.

I am married to someone from a non-EU country and before we even got serious we considered all the possible ramifications of engaging in a relationship. We are aware of how difficult things would be if it went wrong and we split up. We did not go into this blindly. Anyone who does and who does not consider the possibilities is foolish.


You made yourself responsible for this family. You may no longer have a romantic relationship with the mother, but you still have a responsibility to the children. You need to accept this and act accordingly. Basically, grow up.

atkin

I am entitled as any Irish citizen to get a divorce.This woman is by law able to get a council house ,rent allowance .What she needs to show is a deed of separation .This she refuses to agree to until she gets an Irish passport.The woman wants to move she is just staying to get the passport but it could take many years.The situation is calculated well by her .
This woman came here as a frightened refugee no money just $1 and running from a crazy Arab husband in 2001.I helped her now she is an Avon manager has a Jeep and a van .I got her work looked after her children etc.This woman is so ungrateful even her friends hate her sometimes.I only want freedom to find the love I thought I had found.

atkin

When you feel the bitter taste in your mouth of betrayal for years then you will know.
I am not their step father they hate me .I am their slave .I clean their **** and piss from the toilets .You do not know my position .You must experience to comment .

atkin

Look the deal I give her is, deed of separation made before I sign for her next 5 year stamp for residency.Then she leaves the house with 5 years can claim rent allowance .Well is that fair.The woman can support herself her wage is similar to mine.I have 3 children from another marriage .:D There is more but I will leave it.

tatli_lokma

atkin wrote: »

I am entitled as any Irish citizen to get a divorce.This woman is by law able to get a council house ,rent allowance .What she needs to show is a deed of separation .

Fair enough, but from your original post you appeared to be looking for ways to get her sent back to her country of origin.

atkin wrote: »

Look the deal I give her is, deed of separation made before I sign for her next 5 year stamp for residency.Then she leaves the house with 5 years can claim rent allowance .

so you are willing to collude in fraudulent claims for residency to be rid of her??? No wonder they are so suspicious of every claim for residency if people like you are out there fraudulently sponsoring people.

Look, if you want a divorce do as you have been advised and go see a solicitor who can advise you on this and stop looking for sympathy and justification on here for what you are planning on doing. I personally have no time for people who abuse the system, nor do I have any time for people who assist them in doing so.

atkin

Seems like no matter what I do it I am regarded as bad.The Solicitor wants to have her removed from the state !! I am certainly not looking for sympathy just ways to solve the issue.

Heineken Helen

atkin wrote: »

Seems like no matter what I do it I am regarded as bad.The Solicitor wants to have her removed from the state !! I am certainly not looking for sympathy just ways to solve the issue.

well a solicitor is the best person to help you. Seems like a very odd situation... surely you have the upper hand in this relationship if you can have visas revoked simply by reporting her... so I don't understand why you're cleaning up the pis$ and $hit of kids that you despise... especially when you've already consulted a solicitor, you're obviously not in fear of anything?

atkin

Hi,
There is a question of conscience as to why I do not report her.I will not tolerate being used and ignored when I try to divorce.I do need to have my assets protected for my own children!!!.
Why I clean up after the children's mess .The mess would not be cleaned for day if I did not do it.This woman is just ungrateful for anything I do for her.
I regret it is a common trait in people.
Atkin.

Hagar

You willingly participated in the undermining of very generous immigration laws of this country which is a criminal act and you want sympathy here? Sorry bud, I gave at the office.

atkin

I think best to close this thread .I will not waste time in replying.
I wanted some helpful advice not a lecture on immigration law or ethics.

Limerickgal82

Atkin you asked a question and there are some genuine responses here. Please do not get mad at people for having an opinion. I also feel that you do not deserve any sympathy - You married her - yet you say you looked for ways out of marrying her ?! You say you were duped?! Nothing that you have written here makes any sense to be fair. Consult a lawyer and think before you marry someone else . I have friends who have genuine relationships to Foreign Nationals and the hoops they jumped through to get married is horrible and it is the likes of you who marry for convenience that cause the problem's for Genuine people. :mad: Maybe this thread should be closed

KaiserMc

atkin wrote: »

I think best to close this thread .I will not waste time in replying.
I wanted some helpful advice not a lecture on immigration law or ethics.

atkin.. my sympathies for you situation, this women and her family have been probably leading you on from day one,all you are to them is a means to an end.
They are all very aware of the system and laws of this country which they study and are advised of before they arrive and you unfortunately are the victim in this sorry episode. I guarantee you your 'pretend' wife may have aspirations on taking you for what she can get under Irish Law if she receives full Irish person paper thing.

Could you not change the locks and pack up all their stuff and leave it outside the door for them when they are out. Thats what I'd do if I was in that situation .