M4 toll at Kinnegad, Have to pay van rate for a camper!!!!

Timmaay

Hi, I have a converted merc sprinter campervan, that I imported a few months ago, and it is down as a motorcaravan on the logbook and tax disc. I have never had problems before going through any tolls, as soon as the person sees that it has a sink/cooker etc then I am charged the camper rate.

However yesterday I pulled up to the toll in Kinnegad, and the toll operator refused to let me through as a camper, and insisted on me paying the class 4 (LGV) rate of 4.30 instead of 2.90. After waiting there for probably 10minutes eventually a supervisor comes down, and tells me that I have to pay the 4.30, and that I will have to get a letter from Eurolink, who operate the toll, and that might involve them having to inspect the vehicle to insure it cannot carry goods, which would involve a trip up to their office in Enfeild! I had the same problem coming back through the toll in the evening.

Has anyone else had this problem either? I tried showing the inspector the tax disc which clearly states that it is a motorcarvan, but that was of no use! It definitely is not worth my while driving down to Enfield from Wicklow to get them to look at the camper, as I dont use the tolls too often (like most campers I would guess). So this is purely them making things very awkward for us, probably in the hope that we wont bother and just pay the extra toll amount:mad::mad::mad:

spaceHopper

I'd no problems two weeks ago but mine looks like a camper from the outside.

Why not trun the tables and get them to give you are receipte with the reg on it and send them copies of the paper work - insist on a refund and a copy of their licence to operate and rules

Timmaay

Don't worry have the receipts, I plan on emailing them, but if they insist on an inspection then that is such hassle for me. One of my friends who has a converted Mercedes 815 Van had the same problems on Saturday night. My main point still is why Eurolink are insisting we go through all this hassle, when the taxdisc clearly states it is a camper!

bugsntinas

they can be awkward buggers when they want too.personally i'd have stayed at the booth and hoped they the guards and let them sort it.good luck with this.

Bessa

We were charged the van rate on the 31st. of January this year on the N6 West, automatically taken via toll tag. After numerous e-mails,and they trying to tell me that a Motorhome was charged the van rate we eventually got a rebate on the 23rd of February. Our van is easily recognised as a Motorhome.
I think they might be trying to change this status.

kadman

Must be a van conversion thing al right. I went through 6 times last week in Kinnegad with my camper, 2.90 each time. So it looks like the conversions they are targeting.

Maybe 10 or 20 campers , conversions, hitting it at the one time, and get publicity for it. Plenty of room there for a fry up:D:D

kadman

paddyp

In another thread someone mentioned motorhome registrations being removed from the nct database presumable these were then moved to the doe database maybe there was somekind of tie in with that database.

My neighbour has a vw shuttle privately taxed and gets charged taxi rate everytime and sends montly letters requesting refunds.

mrdunk

i got this last month in my camper conversion.
up until then i'd always got the same rate as a car everywhere.

i haven't been through any other toll booths since so maybe their policy has changed recently.

my argument to the person manning the barrier was if the The National Roads Authority who licence the collecting of tolls recognises my van is a camper why doesn't the toll company?

so this document clearly describes how the tolls are only licensed to collect set fees from set classes of vehicle: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/roads-and-safety/national_toll_roads_in_ireland

but i could see the argument that a camper (any camper, not just a conversion) takes up the same road space as a commercial van.
campers are not taxed the same as cars so the "taxed as a caper" doesn't really hold water when trying to insist on the car rate.

does anyone know where it states categorically what the rate for recreational vehicles is?

to be honest, i don't use toll barriers enough in my camper for it to be particularly expensive for me.
i feel far sorrier for one guy i know with a car sized van, taxed and insured as a private car, who is also charged the commercial rate.


dunk.

spaceHopper

mrdunk wrote: »

insured as a private car, who is also charged the commercial rate.
dunk.

Think that's the problem a comerical van ... earns an income and pays more - a camer or car doesn't so shouldn't be charged more.

My camper as alway been charged as a car 2.90 but it's coach built. If it were me I'd just put the hand brake up, turn off the engine and flashers on, ask to talk to a manager - be a good idea to go trough during the working day sometime.

coolvale

go into " national toll roads ltd" site.
click on faq , question 5.
what are the different vehicle classifications ?
campervans are charged the same rate as cars.
i avoid tolls why pay tolls & road tax ?
hope this helps

nailer8

Went through the M4 toll today in a converted MWB Merc sprinter and was only charged 2.90 no questions asked.

They did try to charge me the van rate on the new M7 toll on sat but once I said it was a camper there was no trouble.

Timmaay

spaceHopper wrote: »

I'd just put the hand brake up, turn off the engine and flashers on, ask to talk to a manager - be a good idea to go trough during the working day sometime.

Ha, I actually did this the day that day, trouble was it was a quite sun morning, the girl in the toll booth simply closed her booth, and walked across to the next one and opened it instead, and left me waiting for the manager to come down!

Anyways update on this, after sending and email or so to eurolink who run the toll, they never responded to me:mad:! Thankfully though I have never had any more hassle going through any of the tolls since then, so if it stays that way its not worth pursuing!

coolvale

Timmaay wrote: »

Ha, I actually did this the day that day, trouble was it was a quite sun morning, the girl in the toll booth simply closed her booth, and walked across to the next one and opened it instead, and left me waiting for the manager to come down!

Anyways update on this, after sending and email or so to eurolink who run the toll, they never responded to me:mad:! Thankfully though I have never had any more hassle going through any of the tolls since then, so if it stays that way its not worth pursuing!

why not go into the national "toll roads ltd" site & print off the piece that refers to campers being charged the car rate.
have it in the camper to show it to them if they look for extra.

Irishgoatman

I've just received the following email from the N.R.A. which I think clears the matter up.
The sender is quite happy for me to "cut & paste" the contents. I also directed him to this site, so he has seen the problems we have had.

" I refer to your telephone call relating to toll bye-laws and the applicable charge for motor homes. The situation is as follows:

The applicable toll charges for the various vehicle classes are regulated by bye-laws. The bye-laws for the respective schemes are available from the National Road Authority’s website (www.nra.ie).

The bye-laws define a Goods Vehicle as an electrically or mechanically propelled vehicle which is substantially constructed or adapted for use for the conveyance of goods or burden of any description, whether in the course of trade or otherwise.

A car, on the other hand, is defined as an electrically or mechanically propelled vehicle not being a Motor Cycle and which is constructed or adapted to carry less than 8 passengers and their effects.

The definitions in both of the above cases provide that the determining factor relates to the vehicle purpose and not to the taxation class as the basis for determining the applicable toll.


If it is the case that a vehicle is "substantially constructed or adapted for use for the conveyance of goods or burdens of any description then the goods vehicle toll charge would be the applicable toll charge. Living accommodation can be considered as "burden". Irrespective of a motor home carrying a "burden", to my knowledge the toll operators have generally accepted motor homes at car toll rates. The exceptions are where a motor home exceeds 3.5 tonne or adapted goods vehicles used as motor homes in which case the operators apply the goods vehicle toll.

The definition of cars and goods vehicle is consistent across the various toll scheme bye-laws."

nailer8

Is he suggesting so that coach built (c-class) are ok and van conversions (b-class) are not. That seems crazy to me. What ever about custom built a-class units, both b&c class units are just converted goods vehicles. If anything the coach built should be more seeing as it takes up more road.

coolvale wrote: »

i avoid tolls why pay tolls & road tax ?

Fec sake how little do you expect to pay. €80 road tax, car rate tolls. We have it fairly good in fairness.

Irishgoatman

nailer8 wrote: »

Is he suggesting so that coach built (c-class) are ok and van conversions (b-class) are not. That seems crazy to me. What ever about custom built a-class units, both b&c class units are just converted goods vehicles. If anything the coach built should be more seeing as it takes up more road.


Fec sake how little do you expect to pay. €80 road tax, car rate tolls. We have it fairly good in fairness.

This is the official line from the N.R.A.
Reading between the lines I think it shows, as with the test confusion, that motorhomes/campervans were forgotten when various regulations were put into force. We may just have to live with it and avoid toll motorways where ever possible or, pay as per his explanation.
If anyone wants the man's name by P.M. I can ask his permission as we've had very friendly email contact.

And yes I agree that we do have it fairly good in all other respects.

spaceHopper

nailer8 wrote: »

Is he suggesting so that coach built (c-class) are ok and van conversions (b-class) are not. That seems crazy to me. What ever about custom built a-class units, both b&c class units are just converted goods vehicles. If anything the coach built should be more seeing as it takes up more road.


Fec sake how little do you expect to pay. €80 road tax, car rate tolls. We have it fairly good in fairness.

A comerical van is earning money so pays more, they also calim back the vat.

A camper isn't earning - so far I've always been charged the car rate

paddyb

Ive never been charged more than the car rate. I dont even say its a camper anymore, they usually ask if it is or say nothing when I give them the money.

2yung2adm

A few weeks ago I went through the M7 toll with a large A class motorhome. A Tabbart to be exact. Very large 8'02" wide mirror to mirror. The toll lady asked me what weight the mhome was and when I asked her why she said the charge is based on weight. I argued that it was a motor home not a commercial vehicle. She stated that it did not matter. I then told her it was 1500kgs-big lie-and she let me through on a car fee. I forgot to check it up since.

spaceHopper

Print this page and keep it in the camper when they charge you hand it to them as say no - stick on the hazards and switch off the engine. They'll back down or call for their supervisor - if that doesn't work suggest they get the guards once you have the print out they'll have to pack down

http://www.eurolink-m4.ie/index.aspx?menu=2&context=2