First time overlocking

TheDoc

So I've been trying to buy a new graphics card and psu for some time now ( as you will see from all the posts) but something keeps coming up that requires the money as a higher priority.

I'm out of a job and have literally no money to spend unless I'm selling stuff to pay for new things.

My pc is getting on the old side now, and for years has had a little upgrade here and there to keep her turning over. This time next year I'm probably going to splash on a whole new machine, wether a good second hand buy from adverts, a nice custom build or just buy a monster from alienware ( the most likely option)

But for now I cant buy that new gfx card I wanted, and I want to push my machine a little further, so I guess the option is overclocking.

Now I dont know if my machine can do it or is suitable, but I'm stuck for cash and I just want to get the best out of my machine. Gaming wise I play bad company2 and world of warcraft, both are running fine and playable, but I'm greedy, and want some extra juice.

So heres the specs.


CPU: Intel E5200 2.5ghz
RAM: 4GB
GFX: Geforce 8800gts 320mb
PSU: 450w
Mobo: MSI P31 NEO-F V2, G31, Socket-775, DDR2,

I'm not sure on exact manafacturer stuff, I forget the name of that programme that runs diagnostics and gives you the specs of everything.

I've only mentioned the above as I think its the only relevant stuff to overclocking.

Solitaire

The E5200 is easy to OC; just raise the FSB frequency, but make sure to drop the memory speed divider to avoid accidentally OCing your memory modules as well! You should easily hit 3.33GHz @ FSB1066 (mobo bus speed raised from stock 200MHz to 266MHz) without much voltage, but it varies like hell with a low-bin chip like the E5200. 3.2-3.5GHz is nowhere near the ceiling for the average E5200 but is nonetheless a tidy and easy-maintenance OC for it

As for the 8800GTS... not sure which modern OC utilities are compatible with it. ATiTool used to be the best and while discontinued should still be a great option for older cards like yours. Check out this guide but bear in mind that hopefully you shouldn't need to write custom BIOSes or anything crazy like that; just keep the values set in software and leave off any permanent alterations if possible!

TheDoc

ok so that sounds like a nice boost.

Any guide that can show me how to do this, I know its in the bios, but is there exact numbers to select for all that stuff or is it trial and error.

I've messed with fsb before but not the other stuff

ATI tool seems not to work with windows 7 either : /

EDIT:

Found one supported by same develoepr i think, gpu tool

TheDoc

Well didnt have any success with the graphics card.

When I tried to up the speeds it would just reset 5 seconds later on the softwares slider which is no use.


As for the cpu I ran into difficulty and confusion. I got into the bios and looked for FSB settings and was greeted with the following

CPU FSB 200mhz ( max setting 600)
CPU Frequency 2400mhz

As I changed the fsb it changed the cpu frequency. So when I enter more numbers and it goes up, is that essentially it overlocking the cpu?

I also couldnt find anything to do with memory dividers or mobo bus.

I'll just have a smash through google see if I can find some guides etc, but any hel would be appreciated

Solitaire

Sorry, got busy and didn't have a chance to post earlier!

Yep, that FSB control OCs the mobo. Increasing the speed of the CPU is just a happy coincidence!!

Here's a pic, but while this is from a different MSI P35 it still might be different from your low-end G31:



D.O.T should be disabled, EIST (contrary to popular belief) should be left enabled for several reasons when OCing 45nm C2Ds and Adjusted DDR Memory Frequency should be watched; if it goes over the stock speed of your DDR2 modules you need to change the FSB:Memory Ratio from Auto to a value where the calculated value is lower than or equal to stock.

Not sure about your graphics card, as its so old. nTune might work??? RivaTuner should work for sure but its a rather messy beast.

TheDoc

thats pretty much similar to the screen I see

So CPU frequency = the cpu speed?


Heres actually the products involved

CPU

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=376380

RAM

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=335298

Mobo

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=387433

My bios screen is the exact same as the one shown above.

So what settings and numbers should I be looking at?

Currently the FSB frequency is 200
The cpu ratio is 7 ( cant seem to edit )
FSB/Memory is set to auto
And my DDR memory is set to 800

I did a quick fiddle and when I cranked the FSB the DDR number went higher then 800, so I could change the ratio to keep it under 800.

Sorry if I'm being naggy, I just really never done this before and it does seem that I can get good results from OC without upgrades, and valuewise I'm oblivious as to what to do.

I'll have a nosey into the gpu later tonight and see what I can do.

PogMoThoin

For gpu overclock try Msi Afterburner, it suports all gpu's both nvidia and Ati. Unwinder (guy who makes Rivatuner) gets paid by Msi to contribute to it and its kind of taken over from Rivatuner completely for this reason.

Solitaire

No, no! Its grand! I had to figure it out all by myself back when I started OCing, I know how confusing it is!!

CPU FSB is the one to increase alright! Starts at 200 (in the case of a low-bin FSB800 CPU like the E5*00 series) and pushing this up is the "makes everything go faster" button If you're feeling adventurous you can boost it straight to 240 and start testing from there! Switch CPU Voltage off Auto (it should default to somewhere between 1.1375V and 1.125V depending on what batch your E5200 came from, so long as you have an up-to-date BIOS...). Use CoreTemp to find out the default idle and load voltages for your particular CPU from Windows. Once you've dialed in the desired values (with EIST left on you should be getting 3GHz speed from an FSB of 240) save the settings and leave the BIOS; crank up Prime95 on all cores with the Small FFTs test and make sure it doesn't die (or even record a FAIL) on you for at least 10 minutes. If you get a clean bill of health, continue tweaking the FSB up in 5MHz steps until you get a FAIL or crash in or before loading Windows. Then raise the aforementioned CPU Voltage a tad (say 0.025V) and try again Don't exceed 1.3625V!! After that the 45nm C2Ds (and their longevity!) get very dicey! :eek: Although you shouldn't really need to come within miles of that to maintain stability under 3.6GHz unless your CPU was borderline-defective to start with!

CPU Ratio can be adjusted between 5 and 12 on a E5200. Highest multiplier is x12.5 but you can't get that manually; EIST (SpeedStep Mk2) needs to be left on to reach it. If you leave EIST on your CPU will adjust its own multiplier to suit the load its under, usually between 6 and 12.5 although in practice it's usually one extreme or the other. SpeedStep could cause stability issues if left on when overclocking the older 65nm Core2 CPUs but with the 45nm C2Ds if you turn EIST off you lose the highest multiplier (at least on the low-bin CPUs), waste a lot of energy and don't really gain much at all in terms of stability

And yep, if the DDR Auto setting fails to keep the estimated DDR speed under 800MHz you take it off Auto and fiddle with it until you get it under 800 (you can find out how high you can go with the RAM later, trick is to OC one thing at a time! ).

EDIT: Didn't know Afterburner worked with teh old cards... Its a darn nice program

TheDoc

Alot to digest, I'll leave this page open on the laptop later when I start messing see what I can get, seems like I can accomplish that anyway, then can have a look at the gfx card and see what happens

Will let you know

Also will the cpu speed be displayed in properties of my computer, or do I need to use a different programme to determine?

TheDoc

was running some stuff with the gfx card (msi afterburner is cool and works)

My card stock was running between 80 and 90 degrees. That seems alot, and then when I started overclocking it hit over 100 and kept rising, thats only after less then 60 seconds.

Might leave that, sounds high, going to try the cpu now

PogMoThoin

100 isn't high for a gpu under load. The new Fermi Nvidia is releasing idles at 95, they desperately need to beat Ati. Make sure Your case has enough airflow going to the gpu. What did the gpu temp rise to under full load at stock clocks?

What cooler have You got for the cpu? if its the stock one I'd consider upgrading it.

Steve30x

100C is way too high for your GPU. You should try to settle for no higher than 80C otherwise you will fry that GPU fast. Also while overclocking you will need to torture your CPU with Dual Prime95 for a few hours (8hours is usualy recomended) and if it fails then you have to try again. It took me two weeks of tweaking and testing to get this Q6600 to 3.4ghz.

TheDoc

ok so i messed with cpu.

When I clicked save settings, the pc shut down straight away, it turned back on itself but its not giving any video output.

Everything is tunring and working, but nothing on screen,

any ideas to what happend?

Did i go to big to fast?

TheDoc

ok awesome motherboard much?

i got giddy and put the fsb in at 333

total overkill i know, but thankfully the motherboard recognised the fail and automatically restored defaults, it says btw 333 fsb was clocking it at 4ghz

I'm going to start slow and not get so greedy haha, im going to leave the gpu, its not bad it runs the games i want, just wanted some more firepower.

The card runs in the 80's normal, stock, that seems high to me.

I know i looked at my system temp before and saw i was rocking high tempetures, but never really knew how to get it down, since the airflow seemed decent, its jsut a cause im in a small not well ventilated room, so i thought

TheDoc

Hard drive with my windows installation is being "failed to recognise"

major...problemo

that HDD has everything important on it

EDIT:

Magically started working, o for **** sake if id moeny id buy a new machine right now haha

Solitaire

Why the hell didn't I move this to T&M earlier? Rocks in ma head today!

Possible. What settings did you change in the BIOS and what to? Also did you reset your GPU speeds back down to normal? Could be worth running it and checking its load temps at stock. Could also be worth firing off some compressed air into any case fans, the old CPU fan and especially the GPU cooler to clear out any airflow-killing gunk!! :eek:

Track CPU speed and core temps in Windows with CoreTemp, and track other temperatures and basic HDD status (and tweak CPU and case fan speed stimuli if you have some PWM fan headers on your mobo!) with Speedfan. Combined with Prime95 they're pretty much the OCers toolkit when dealing with CPUs

EDIT: I'm a tool Forgot to say that when you OC a 45nm C2D on a P3* mobo you often need to increase chipset voltage just a hair!

PogMoThoin

Steve30x wrote: »

100C is way too high for your GPU. You should try to settle for no higher than 80C otherwise you will fry that GPU fast.

Nonsence, gpu's run much hotter than cpu's. Most of the latest Ati cards idle in the mid 80's, latest Nvidia's idle at 95'. I ran a volt modded heavily oc'ed 7900gt for 18 months with temps hitting 115' under full load with an aftermarket Zalman cooler, couldn't kill it

TheDoc

might bench the idea, its caused a world of hurt

Everything is back running, but my warcraft installation ****ed somehow, and i can open it, if ive to reinstall that game, ill quicker throw my pc out the window and go back playing xbox

Solitaire

WTF?! OCing the CPU and GPU poses no threat to data storage short of setting the entire flippin' PC on fire and that takes skillz! If you've got issues with stuff on the HDD all of a sudden odds are your Windows install, physical HDD or chipset already has some sort of underlying problem :eek:

TheDoc

Solitaire wrote: »

WTF?! OCing the CPU and GPU poses no threat to data storage short of setting the entire flippin' PC on fire and that takes skillz! If you've got issues with stuff on the HDD all of a sudden odds are your Windows install, physical HDD or chipset already has some sort of underlying problem :eek:

possibly, although all was well until I started fiddling.

It seems like error related to wow might actually be a blizzard server issue, so its not directly related to the pc.

However when I set the fsb to 240 and had the memory under 800, I was getting problems, which leads me to believe i cant get much out of my ageing system : /

Solitaire

Have you checked how much vCore the CPU needs at stock speed? Some batches had stock (loaded) vCore as low as 1.1375V but the downside was that they needed a nudge in the voltage department very early on in regards to operating speed!

And have you checked to make sure your BIOS is 100% compatible with the E5*00 series? Most P3*-chipset boards needed a BIOS update to fully recognise them due to their super-high stock multipliers. I had OC and multiplier issues as well until I updated my BIOS to something that had official support for the E5200

Komplett-Tech: Ryan

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Nonsence, gpu's run much hotter than cpu's. Most of the latest Ati cards idle in the mid 80's, latest Nvidia's idle at 95'. I ran a volt modded heavily oc'ed 7900gt for 18 months with temps hitting 115' under full load with an aftermarket Zalman cooler, couldn't kill it

Wut?

My 5870's idle at between 40-50c with fan control on auto, which is about 23%. They never go over 70c on load either. Weren't nvidia meant to fix the high temps with a driver update.. a few weeks ago?

Steve30x

Are you using stock cooling to cool your CPU while trying to overclock. If you are you better start looking into buying a good CPU cooler (not a real cheap one) otherwise the CPU will overheat and die prematurly.

Steve30x

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Nonsence, gpu's run much hotter than cpu's. Most of the latest Ati cards idle in the mid 80's, latest Nvidia's idle at 95'. I ran a volt modded heavily oc'ed 7900gt for 18 months with temps hitting 115' under full load with an aftermarket Zalman cooler, couldn't kill it

I realy dont know where you are getting your info but you are totally wrong. My GTX280 Idles at 48 celcius and at 100% load it maxes at 80 celcius. Also my CPU (Intel q6600 @ 3.4ghz) at 100% load maxes out at 60 celcius. The latest GTX480 Idles at 60 Celcius not 95 and it maxes out at 95 Celcius.

Read this before you start spouting such rubbish again. http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/03/26/nvidia_fermi_gtx_470_480_sli_review/7

PogMoThoin

Steve30x wrote: »

I realy dont know where you are getting your info but you are totally wrong. My GTX280 Idles at 48 celcius and at 100% load it maxes at 80 celcius. Also my CPU (Intel q6600 @ 3.4ghz) at 100% load maxes out at 60 celcius. The latest GTX480 Idles at 60 Celcius not 95 and it maxes out at 95 Celcius.

Read this before you start spouting such rubbish again. http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/03/26/nvidia_fermi_gtx_470_480_sli_review/7

Knew I read it somewhere, with dual monitors they idle at 90' which nvidia say is normal
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1258/15/

Steve30x

You obviously didnt look at the link I gave you. They dont Idle at 90 Celcius. Not all reviews are to be believed.

Deano12345

TheDoc wrote: »

might bench the idea, its caused a world of hurt

Everything is back running, but my warcraft installation ****ed somehow, and i can open it, if ive to reinstall that game, ill quicker throw my pc out the window and go back playing xbox

You didn't adjust the PCI-E frequency by any chance ? For a reason I cant remember, it can cause data corruption if upped to much

Solitaire

+1. Upping PCIe frequency is an option on most mobos for some unknown, god-forsaken reason and when fiddled with always causes tears before bedtime

Deano12345

Solitaire wrote: »

+1. Upping PCIe frequency is an option on most mobos for some unknown, god-forsaken reason and when fiddled with always causes tears before bedtime

Usually upping it by 1 or 2 helps get a higher BCLK on i7. Thats the only reason I can think of

Solitaire

Some up it 5-10% to get better bandwidth on the early mITX mobos as their physical PCIe connections were often limited to x4, and now on P55 if you use both SATA3 and USB3 you're looking at x8 for a single card and just x4 for CrossFire. But much higher than 110MHz and things come apart fast. And less stable mobos will start to come apart long before that! :eek: