Sunday Business Post/Red C poll (28/03/2010)

Sulmac

RTÉ News

The poll was conducted on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday (22-24 March).

Key points:

Party support:

• Fianna Fáil - 24% (-3)
• Fine Gael - 35% (+1)
• Labour Party - 17% (-)
• Green Pary - 5% (-)
• Sinn Féin - 10% (+1)
• Others / Independents - 9% (+1)

"Has Brian Cowen made a good Taoiseach?"

• Yes - 27%
• No - 69%
• Don't know - 4%

"Is Brian Cowen capable of leading us out of recession?"

• Yes - 29%
• No - 66%
• Don't know - 5%

-

I'd say it's already outdated - I wonder what the figures would be now with McGuinness and a few other backbenchers acting up.

Government support (29% - FF and GP) exceeds and matches the questions on Cowen's ability, which is unsurprising.

Regarding the party support, I'm a bit surprised that Labour's support hasn't gone down with the chaos at the passport office (union links and all that), though this could be reflected in FF's support going down instead (along with the excuse of a cabinet reshuffle).

FG's support doesn't seem to have been affected in any big way by Varadkar's outburst in the Dáil, and maybe the launch of their "NewPolitics" document can explain the 1% rise.

Overall, unsurprising results. Hopefully the "jump" in FF support at the start of the year was just a blip (though they will always have the diehard core vote of 20-25%).

Liam Byrne

My question would be how FF still manage to have 24%.....and even more worrying is that Cowen seems to have the support of an ADDITIONAL 3 to 5% more people! :eek:

Darsad

Jasus the Greens at 5% will we never learn !

mike65

All within margin of statistical error so as you were really.

maynooth_rules

It is a scary scary thought that no matter what the hell Fianna Fail do, no matter what disgraces they bring upon this country, they are always guaranteed 20% of the vote. It sickens me that I have to share this country with 1 in every 5 peope who won't open their mind to looking beyond the one bloody party.

transylman

FF haven't gone below 39% of the vote in a general election since 1932 and have usually averaged 45%. Them being around 25% is a sea change in irish politics and is one of the few specks of hope for the future of the country.

Sergeant

Whilst the FG figure is encouraging, you have to wonder what the figure would be if they had a competent and credible leader.

Liam Byrne

Sergeant wrote: »

Whilst the FG figure is encouraging, you have to wonder what the figure would be if they had a competent and credible leader.

I don't think it matters, really.......having incompetent ones hasn't affected FF or the Greens.

Sergeant

Liam, I agree. I just think Kenny suffers from a serious public perception problem. Polls back up this view.

There is the potential for a seismic change in Irish politics, why shouldn't FG aspire to single party government? Instead of being hamstrung by a coalition with Labour, whose links to the Unions will always be a barrier to radical change in how this country is governed?

patmar

People are angry and have been for two years now. They are very angry with FF as we all know. But they are not angry enough to put FG at 45% and Labour at 25% where these partie should be if we believed their publicity, if we believed the media and if we believed the almost 100% ABFF on internet sites. Come 2012 general election when the people make the actual decision in their vote they will panic at the thoughts of what is going to replace FF. Will not be enough to stop FF losing the election but it will wipe the smile off the faces of the opposition when they know a much stronger FF than they expect will be facing them across the Dail chamber

Mr.Micro

patmar wrote: »

Come 2012 general election when the people make the actual decision in their vote they will panic at the thoughts of what is going to replace FF.

I doubt that very much. Can FF do much more damage to our country? Saddled with billions in debt for decades to come. Massive unemployment and a complete loss of competitiveness etc. FF the party that will never be forgotten for the havoc wreaked during its tenure. The only panic will be the rats leaving good ship FF.

Liam Byrne

patmar wrote: »

Come 2012 general election when the people make the actual decision in their vote they will panic at the thoughts of what is going to replace FF.

"panic" about what, exactly ?

The damage has been done. FF have saddled us with sickening levels of debt for the next 10 - 20 years, and have proven to be 100% incapable of managing an economy......while other countries are on their way out of recession, Ireland has yet to feel the worst of it.

How could anyone else POSSIBLY do anything to make them "panic" at the thoughts of something worse ?

If FF keep going the way they're going, I'd nearly welcome the nuclear war that Sky were predicting last week - at least then we'd no longer have anything to worry about.

And if a nuclear war where we're all wiped out and hopefully there is a "next life" is better than FF, then there's no reason whatsoever to panic.

patmar

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I doubt that very much. Can FF do much more damage to our country? Saddled with billions in debt for decades to come. Massive unemployment and a complete loss of competitiveness etc. FF the party that will never be forgotten for the havoc wreaked during its tenure. The only panic will be the rats leaving good ship FF.

You missed the point. listening to that guff from all directions till I am blue in the face. Yes, it will go on during the election but it will only be one side of the coin. The other side will be FF fighting for its political life and the terryifying prospect for the opposition that will have to put on the table a series of policies that the people will accept. The awful truth for the opposition is that they are desperate not to blow a chance to actually win an election. Desperate people do desperate and we know from 2007 when the elction was handed to the opposition they blew it

Just wait for day FF will lift its head from the present position where they are concentrating on doing the dirty work to sort out a few problems

sron

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I doubt that very much. Can FF do much more damage to our country? Saddled with billions in debt for decades to come. Massive unemployment and a complete loss of competitiveness etc. FF the party that will never be forgotten for the havoc wreaked during its tenure. The only panic will be the rats leaving good ship FF.

I was reading something on current US politics the other day and saw a quote from one of those founding fathers they love so much; it went along the lines of ,"people would rather protect their possibility of being rich than accept being poor."
That seems to me to be the prime reason for the FF support. Some of us can't accept that the boom years are gone and so rally behind FF in some vain attempt to claw it back. Hopefully that sort of thinking will have diminished by next election time.

Mr.Micro

sron wrote: »

I was reading something on current US politics the other day and saw a quote from one of those founding fathers they love so much; it went along the lines of ,"people would rather protect their possibility of being rich than accept being poor."
That seems to me to be the prime reason for the FF support. Some of us can't accept that the boom years are gone and so rally behind FF in some vain attempt to claw it back. Hopefully that sort of thinking will have diminished by next election time.

Quite right. There are many who done well out of FF, developers, bankers and several other groups and the safety net was put in place fro them. Its the ordinary Joe who pays the bill. It is those who benefited that will continue for the moment to support FF but will jump ship when they see that FF is going down big time. So the Red Poll probably flatters FF.

dixiefly

patmar wrote: »

You missed the point. listening to that guff from all directions till I am blue in the face. Yes, it will go on during the election but it will only be one side of the coin. The other side will be FF fighting for its political life and the terryifying prospect for the opposition that will have to put on the table a series of policies that the people will accept. The awful truth for the opposition is that they are desperate not to blow a chance to actually win an election. Desperate people do desperate and we know from 2007 when the elction was handed to the opposition they blew it

Just wait for day FF will lift its head from the present position where they are concentrating on doing the dirty work to sort out a few problems

considering that under the tenure of Bertie Aherne a large portion of these problems were caused either directly by government policy or a failure to properly manage the economy lets not make a virtue of them working to sort out the problems.

Liam Byrne

patmar wrote: »

the terryifying prospect for the opposition that will have to put on the table a series of policies that the people will accept.

This applies to both "sides". Sure FF's current policies are so unacceptable that they're afraid to run the by-elections.

FF can only come up with its short-term, unsustainable policies when the country is awash with money, and even then it reneges on most of them (zero tolerance being an example).

patmar wrote: »

The awful truth for the opposition is that they are desperate not to blow a chance to actually win an election. Desperate people do desperate and we know from 2007 when the elction was handed to the opposition they blew it

Likewise, FF are currently so under siege because of their track record that they will be desperate. So this applies to both sides.

In fact, my worry would be that FF have wrecked the country so much that neither side will want to be in charge, because there's nothing they can really do to make sufficient impact.

patmar wrote: »

Just wait for day FF will lift its head from the present position where they are concentrating on doing the dirty work to sort out a few problems

I've read that sentence 5 times and still can't make head nor tail of it.

Mr.Micro

patmar wrote: »

Just wait for day FF will lift its head from the present position where they are concentrating on doing the dirty work to sort out a few problems

The dirty work has been done in ruining our economy. The only problems to sort out is how it as a party is going to avoid being the next Green party with 5 or 6 seats?

patmar

I only discovered these Irish politics sites in November 2009. Recognised them as 99% ABFF and decided to make a few posts. Not only the posts directed at me but ALL posts clearly attacked FF and first thought this was just tactics. However, in last three weeks or so it has hit me like a brick that the ABFF are terrified to talk about what they have to offer when they will replace FF but more so they are terrified they will actually repeat history and lose the 7th election in a row. I dont envy this fear

sron

patmar wrote: »

I only discovered these Irish politics sites in November 2009. Recognised them as 99% ABFF and decided to make a few posts. Not only the posts directed at me but ALL posts clearly attacked FF and first thought this was just tactics. However, in last three weeks or so it has hit me like a brick that the ABFF are terrified to talk about what they have to offer when they will replace FF but more so they are terrified they will actually repeat history and lose the 7th election in a row. I dont envy this fear

A government made up of stray dogs would be as incompetent as FF, but they at least wouldn't be corrupt.
Though I can't say I'm entirely happy with the opposition, they have not proven themselves corrupt time and time again like FF have. That you can stick by them suggests to me you have some vested interest in them staying in power (bought a house at the wrong time?) or you're one of those "sure I've always voted FF" types.

Dannyboy83

patmar wrote: »

The other side will be FF fighting for its political life and the terryifying prospect for the opposition that will have to put on the table a series of policies that the people will accept.

I already answered this elsewhere, but I'll post it here again:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65106825&postcount=101
Our health system is broken, Cowen/FF have returned Harney to the position again for the 4th time. Clearly, they are not willing to try anything new.

FG have a policy idea called FairCare, based on the Dutch Health System
http://www.faircare.ie/plan.html
I would be willing to give FG my vote, based on this single idea alone.

The above is just one example of a policy that seems to be generating loads and loads of interest and support.
Other parties seem to have a wealth of ideas.
FF have none.

Today I was speaking to a Latvian women who owns her own business, saying that it's near impossible to run a business in Ireland now and how FF have destroyed the country.
She was saying how she was going to going to apply for citizenship and vote in the GE for FG, anyone just to get FF out.

I'm sure FF will be back again in the future, but I think it will be a lot longer than any FF supporters seem to realise.

Sulmac

patmar wrote: »

I only discovered these Irish politics sites in November 2009. Recognised them as 99% ABFF and decided to make a few posts. Not only the posts directed at me but ALL posts clearly attacked FF and first thought this was just tactics. However, in last three weeks or so it has hit me like a brick that the ABFF are terrified to talk about what they have to offer when they will replace FF but more so they are terrified they will actually repeat history and lose the 7th election in a row. I dont envy this fear

That's just blatantly wrong. Fine Gael, in particular, have had high-profile policies launched to a huge amount of public interest - NewERA for economic reform, NewPolitics for political reform and FairCare for health (as Dannyboy83 mentioned), as well as smaller policies like bus competition and third-level funding reform.

They've also launched a policy guide leaflet, which they say will be updated every so often as they announce new policies and update current ones.

Labour have also recently copped on and are doing the same - you need only look at their proposals for a Strategic Investment Bank a few days ago, which is very similar to FG's National Recovery Bank policy.

Even if you don't agree with them, to say such policies "don't exist" is completely untrue.

Liam Byrne

patmar wrote: »

I only discovered these Irish politics sites in November 2009. Recognised them as 99% ABFF and decided to make a few posts. Not only the posts directed at me but ALL posts clearly attacked FF and first thought this was just tactics.

Sorry, but that is delusion; not completely, to be fair, because I will acknowledge that there are people who are as blinkeredly and biasedly ABFF as FF people are ABFG or whatever.

However, the problem with FF is that they appear to see any "ABFF" as a default position, with the criticism (in their eyes) being secondary, coming as a result of an existing bias.

The facts, however, are that their incompetence and condoning of corruption, and their mismanagement of the economy has caused my "ABFF" feeling.

And until FF wake up and realise this fact, they will see no reason to improve, and are therefore - IMHO - unfit for office.

I do not have a party allegience, and they have not just disgusted me, but caused me to write them off as a completely lost cause. And since I was 100% neutral, with no bias, then if they can do that - through their actions - then there is obviously something seriously wrong.

patmar

Still the same FF bashing with a pathetic effort to confront the fact the opposition are bereft of ideas other than bashing FF. Its nonsense to say the Dutch plan is generating widespread interest and support. Anyone with half a brain has said it will face huge problems with Labour Party and even if Labour support the plan it will take a minimun of 10 years to implement.

For goodness sake why dont the ABFF confront their fears and speak with confidence on how they will turn the economy around !!

FF are certain they will not be in government after next election and in fact are looking forward to a period of relaxation which the opposition have enjoyed for nearly 30 years

Having said that I am terrified of what will happen. Can it be a repeat of 1982 when the first thing that happened within two months of coming to office was a 21000 increase in unemployment. Thats on a par with 80000 or so today. Then the unemployment rate went to 22% !! One can only hope for the best and that FF will in the election campaign remind the people of the even bigger disaster that awaits them

As Dunne the drug baron said in the 80's, "if you think we are bad wait till you see what is coming after us ! " We know how right he was

Sulmac

patmar wrote: »

Still the same FF bashing with a pathetic effort to confront the fact the opposition are bereft of ideas other than bashing FF. Its nonsense to say the Dutch plan is generating widespread interest and support. Anyone with half a brain has said it will face huge problems with Labour Party and even if Labour support the plan it will take a minimun of 10 years to implement.

...except that Labour proposed the same style of system back in 2001 and again in 2008.

For goodness sake why dont the ABFF confront their fears and speak with confidence on how they will turn the economy around !!

They have. Numerous times. See the links in my post above.

FF are certain they will not be in government after next election and in fact are looking forward to a period of relaxation which the opposition have enjoyed for nearly 30 years

13 years, but who's counting. :rolleyes: That said, it'd be nice to see FF on the opposition benches for 30 years, if the party doesn't radically change.

Can it be a repeat of 1982 when the first thing that happened within two months of coming to office was a 21000 increase in unemployment. Thats on a par with 80000 or so today. Then the unemployment rate went to 22% !! One can only hope for the best and that FF will in the election campaign remind the people of the even bigger disaster that awaits them

I think this speaks for itself.

Liam Byrne

patmar wrote: »

Still the same FF bashing with a pathetic effort to confront the fact the opposition are bereft of ideas other than bashing FF. Its nonsense to say the Dutch plan is generating widespread interest and support.

OK - I was as clear as I could be in the post above, but it obviously won't get through the FF-coloured glasses.

patmar wrote: »

Anyone with half a brain has said it will face huge problems with Labour Party and even if Labour support the plan it will take a minimun of 10 years to implement.

I could be glib and say that those of us with full brains think differently, but instead I will ask the obvious question : where is the source to back up this claim ?

patmar wrote: »

For goodness sake why dont the ABFF confront their fears and speak with confidence on how they will turn the economy around !!

Because the "fear" is a manufactured mindset rather than a fact. You can't confront something that doesn't exist!

patmar wrote: »

FF are certain they will not be in government after next election and in fact are looking forward to a period of relaxation which the opposition have enjoyed for nearly 30 years

:rolleyes:

I would suggest that - if they are looking forward to it - it's because they won't have to sort out the mess they have created.

patmar wrote: »

One can only hope for the best and that FF will in the election campaign remind the people of the even bigger disaster that awaits them

This is Martin Manseragh-type waffle and scaremongering of the highest order. You haven't offered a single issue that would indicate an "even bigger disaster" (assuming that that is even possible, which I sincerely doubt).

The only reason that the next government will have "a disaster" is because FF have f**ked up the economy so much, and landed us with crippling bank guarantees and NAMA.

patmar wrote: »

As Dunne the drug baron said in the 80's, "if you think we are bad wait till you see what is coming after us ! " We know how right he was

Ah but if FF had followed through on their lies election promises of zero-tolerance on crime, this wouldn't have happened. :rolleyes:

patmar

Sulmac wrote: »

That's just blatantly wrong. Fine Gael, in particular, have had high-profile policies launched to a huge amount of public interest - NewERA for economic reform, NewPolitics for political reform and FairCare for health (as Dannyboy83 mentioned), as well as smaller policies like bus competition and third-level funding reform.

They've also launched a policy guide leaflet, which they say will be updated every so often as they announce new policies and update current ones.

Labour have also recently copped on and are doing the same - you need only look at their proposals for a Strategic Investment Bank a few days ago, which is very similar to FG's National Recovery Bank policy.

Even if you don't agree with them, to say such policies "don't exist" is completely untrue.

For goodness sake thats all pie in the sky stuff. FF could easily come out tomorrow with the same nonsense about how they will after next election have similar policies in place. Lets have specifics on how the great replacement are going to return country to full employment. How they are going to balance the budget. How they are going to do what FF did and increase the workforce by 1m

Mickey mouse ideas short on specifics and short of clarity funding sources I could write forever

Liam Byrne

patmar wrote: »

Lets have specifics on how the great replacement are going to return country to full employment.

Let's just have FG and Labour highlight the fact that they didn't drag the country down from almost full employment to its current mess.

patmar wrote: »

How they are going to balance the budget.

The one that is ludicrously off-kilter because of FF's actions ?

patmar wrote: »

How they are going to do what FF did and increase the workforce by 1m

....albeit unbelieveably temporarily due to crazily unsustainable policies.

patmar wrote: »

Mickey mouse ideas short on specifics and short of clarity funding sources I could write forever

I take it that you didn't read the "renewed programme for government" that was agreed last October ? I did, and that description of yours fits it perfectly.

Rather than "writing forever", just provide the link that I asked for to back up your earlier claim.

Sulmac

patmar wrote: »

For goodness sake thats all pie in the sky stuff. FF could easily come out tomorrow with the same nonsense about how they will after next election have similar policies in place. Lets have specifics on how the great replacement are going to return country to full employment. How they are going to balance the budget. How they are going to do what FF did and increase the workforce by 1m

Mickey mouse ideas short on specifics and short of clarity funding sources I could write forever

Every single one of those documents is far more specific then anything Fianna Fáil has come out with in recent years.

Hell, even the NewERA one has financial information (pages 13 and 15), showing year-on-year spending and how it will create jobs directly and indirectly (page 12). Of course it's not going to be 100% accurate and detailed, but what more do you want, the names of the people who will take these jobs?

And regarding the budget deficit, see their proposals for Budget 2010, devised by an actual economist (Richard Bruton).

Also, there's a difference in expanding the workforce (it's down to demographics and immigration) and expanding employment. Employment was already expanding rapidly when FF took power in 1997, but now it's retracting at an equally rapid rate.

jank

patmar wrote: »

I only discovered these Irish politics sites in November 2009. Recognised them as 99% ABFF and decided to make a few posts. Not only the posts directed at me but ALL posts clearly attacked FF and first thought this was just tactics. However, in last three weeks or so it has hit me like a brick that the ABFF are terrified to talk about what they have to offer when they will replace FF but more so they are terrified they will actually repeat history and lose the 7th election in a row. I dont envy this fear

Its a free country if you don't like it set up a pro FF website, nobody is stopping you.

jank

Guys just ignore him he is one of the die hard FF'ers that would vote for them even if they had Lucifer as their party leader. I am guessing he is off an older generation and until this generation passes away we wont have a proper divide in Irish politics that resembles the rest of Europe.

Dannyboy83

patmar wrote: »

Still the same FF bashing with a pathetic effort to confront the fact the opposition are bereft of ideas other than bashing FF. Its nonsense to say the Dutch plan is generating widespread interest and support. Anyone with half a brain has said it will face huge problems with Labour Party and even if Labour support the plan it will take a minimun of 10 years to implement.

For goodness sake why dont the ABFF confront their fears and speak with confidence on how they will turn the economy around !!

FF are certain they will not be in government after next election and in fact are looking forward to a period of relaxation which the opposition have enjoyed for nearly 30 years

Having said that I am terrified of what will happen. Can it be a repeat of 1982 when the first thing that happened within two months of coming to office was a 21000 increase in unemployment. Thats on a par with 80000 or so today. Then the unemployment rate went to 22% !! One can only hope for the best and that FF will in the election campaign remind the people of the even bigger disaster that awaits them

As Dunne the drug baron said in the 80's, "if you think we are bad wait till you see what is coming after us ! " We know how right he was

The disappointing thing is that your posts are mostly opinion but your not giving any facts/links/sources about what FF have to offer, or even to back up any of your claims.
I think its already been proven that opposition have plenty of detailed policies and ideas.

So I would ask you now to demonstrate what FF have to offer and why you think they will return to power?

And more importantly, to demonstrate why you are so certain why other parties will fail?

Please provide some evidence and not just opinion/commentary.

Thanks

galwayrush

jank wrote: »

Guys just ignore him he is one of the die hard FF'ers that would vote for them even if they had Lucifer as their party leader. I am guessing he is off an older generation and until this generation passes away we wont have a proper divide in Irish politics that resembles the rest of Europe.

Like i said in another post, FF is a brainwashing cult,the proof is in his posts, defending the undefendable to the end, sad but a major part of the problems of this country in the past, present and scarily into the future as well.

Dob74

patmar wrote: »

I only discovered these Irish politics sites in November 2009. Recognised them as 99% ABFF and decided to make a few posts. Not only the posts directed at me but ALL posts clearly attacked FF and first thought this was just tactics. However, in last three weeks or so it has hit me like a brick that the ABFF are terrified to talk about what they have to offer when they will replace FF but more so they are terrified they will actually repeat history and lose the 7th election in a row. I dont envy this fear

There are plenty of FF voters out there. People love to complain about the government.
But when you hear things like, sure what differents would the other side make, it was the market, etc. They are FF voters.
Besides anyone that would vote for FG would vote for FF.
They are basically the same party with the same neo-liberal politics, only a different name.
FF and FG should go into coalition after the next election. Then we can have a left/right debate. With Labour/SF/Greens in opposition.

Liam Byrne

Dob74 wrote: »

Besides anyone that would vote for FG would vote for FF.

Nope.

Sir Oxman

patmar wrote: »

Still the same FF bashing with a pathetic effort to confront the fact the opposition are bereft of ideas other than bashing FF. Its nonsense to say the Dutch plan is generating widespread interest and support. Anyone with half a brain has said it will face huge problems with Labour Party and even if Labour support the plan it will take a minimun of 10 years to implement.

For goodness sake why dont the ABFF confront their fears and speak with confidence on how they will turn the economy around !!

FF are certain they will not be in government after next election and in fact are looking forward to a period of relaxation which the opposition have enjoyed for nearly 30 years

Having said that I am terrified of what will happen. Can it be a repeat of 1982 when the first thing that happened within two months of coming to office was a 21000 increase in unemployment. Thats on a par with 80000 or so today. Then the unemployment rate went to 22% !! One can only hope for the best and that FF will in the election campaign remind the people of the even bigger disaster that awaits them

As Dunne the drug baron said in the 80's, "if you think we are bad wait till you see what is coming after us ! " We know how right he was

That would have been on the back of the last great fcuk-up by FF - Jaysus, you boys have one thing going for you, consistency in bankrupting this little rock of ours.

galwayrush

patmar wrote: »

Still the same FF bashing with a pathetic effort to confront the fact the opposition are bereft of ideas other than bashing FF. Its nonsense to say the Dutch plan is generating widespread interest and
Having said that I am terrified of what will happen. Can it be a repeat of 1982 when the first thing that happened within two months of coming to office was a 21000 increase in unemployment. Thats on a par with 80000 or so today. Then the unemployment rate went to 22% !! One can only hope for the best and that FF will in the election campaign remind the people of the even bigger disaster that awaits them

As Dunne the drug baron said in the 80's, "if you think we are bad wait till you see what is coming after us ! " We know how right he was

I had to laugh at that, err how many people have joined the dole queue in the past 18 months? Also, population does not translate like inflation over a period of years:rolleyes:
As for the last comment, is that the best defence that FF supporters can cling to in trying to discredit the opposition before the next election? At least you used a criminal to back up your argument.:rolleyes:

Laminations

Patmar FF have been in power for 10-15 years straight. Name 10 things they have done for the good of this country?

10 things other than 'peace in NI' which people can argue involved far more than Bertie the champion and FF

PS I can name at least 10 bad things

patmar

Could list 10 good things that happened under FF but as we know nothing will change the mindset of the ABFF.
Instead let me list 10 things that I have never ever heard the ABFF condemn

Growth rate of 7% + per annum
Workforce increasing by 1m
Full employment for first time in history
Emigration stopped
Reducing the National Debt
Investing 18b in the future pensions problem
Massive increase in spending on Social Welfare
Massive increase in spending on Health
Massive increase in spending on Education
Reducing the tax burden on people

At the end of the day these are the things the ABFF are condemning but refuse to say it.

Please carry on with the nitpicking.
FF may be down to 24% in the latest poll but at least we can look back to years of the feel good factor we gave to people

patmar

jank wrote: »

Its a free country if you don't like it set up a pro FF website, nobody is stopping you.

I imagine it would be terribly boring posting to people who sing from the same hymm sheet. Its a pity Boards is not geared to have chatrooms like for instance Paltalk Scene where one can debate in realtime text and voice. Threads like this would be ideal for such a system.
I like this board and others like so but must consider opening a room at Paltalk to see what response it gets. Anyone interested ?

Laminations

patmar wrote: »

I imagine it would be terribly boring posting to people who sing from the same hymm sheet. Its a pity Boards is not geared to have chatrooms like for instance Paltalk Scene where one can debate in realtime text and voice. Threads like this would be ideal for such a system.
I like this board and others like so but must consider opening a room at Paltalk to see what response it gets. Anyone interested ?

I dont think it would interest me. A room of FFers who can see no wrong with their party wrecking the economy? It'd be like voluntarily entering an asylum to play with the inmates.

maynooth_rules

patmar wrote: »

Could list 10 good things that happened under FF but as we know nothing will change the mindset of the ABFF.
Instead let me list 10 things that I have never ever heard the ABFF condemn

Growth rate of 7% + per annum
Workforce increasing by 1m
Full employment for first time in history
Emigration stopped
Reducing the National Debt
Investing 18b in the future pensions problem
Massive increase in spending on Social Welfare
Massive increase in spending on Health
Massive increase in spending on Education
Reducing the tax burden on people

At the end of the day these are the things the ABFF are condemning but refuse to say it.

Please carry on with the nitpicking.
FF may be down to 24% in the latest poll but at least we can look back to years of the feel good factor we gave to people

You poor misguided chap

paddyland

patmar wrote: »

Could list 10 good things that happened under FF but as we know nothing will change the mindset of the ABFF.
Instead let me list 10 things that I have never ever heard the ABFF condemn

Growth rate of 7% + per annum
Workforce increasing by 1m
Full employment for first time in history
Emigration stopped
Reducing the National Debt
Investing 18b in the future pensions problem
Massive increase in spending on Social Welfare
Massive increase in spending on Health
Massive increase in spending on Education
Reducing the tax burden on people

At the end of the day these are the things the ABFF are condemning but refuse to say it.

Please carry on with the nitpicking.
FF may be down to 24% in the latest poll but at least we can look back to years of the feel good factor we gave to people

Every single one of those items were a flash in the pan. Where are they now? Any one of them? We could have grown the economy slowly and steadily, and invested that growth in sustainable enterprise.

Instead the Flash and Fall party blew the economy up out of all proportions, squandered it all, invested nothing, and then it all collapsed, like a great firework screaming into the night sky, exploding in a wonderful flash, and then disappearing into thin air.

Well done chaps, you'll go down in the history books. How not to run a country, in ten easy steps. 7% growth rate my arse. I don't see much growth now, do you?

Sulmac

Growth rate of 7% + per annum

GDP% GNP%
1999 10.7 8.5
2000 9.2 9.5
2001 6.2 3.9
2002 6.1 2.7
2003 4.4 5.1
2004 4.5 4.0
2005 5.5 5.3
2006 5.7 6.5
2007 6.0 4.1
2008 -3.0 -2.8
2009 (preliminary) -7.1 -11.3
2010 (forecast) -1.0 -2.0

Source.

Only two of those years are 7+%, though -7.1% last year sure is something.

Workforce increasing by 1m

That's the result of favourable demographics (all the "Pope's Children" maturing into adults in the early 2000s) and immigration. A workforce is vastly different to the numbers of people employed. But don't worry, the workforce is going down now thanks to emigration. Well done there.

Full employment for first time in history

Full employment imples 0% unemployment, though I will grant you that unemployment remained at remarkably low figures (3-4%) for a few years. But look where we're at now, over 13%! What started out as a legitimate economic miracle (well educated workers producing goods and services for export) turned into a building boom and mass consumerism fueled by easy credit. A big no-no in economics.

Emigration stopped

Emmmmm....

Reducing the National Debt

Yes they did, only to saddle us with NAMA now, and the tens of billions of euro of debt that will incur. And let us not forget the budget deficit.

Massive increase in spending on Social Welfare
Massive increase in spending on Health
Massive increase in spending on Education

Yes, but throwing money at something without any real managerial reform is pointless. Case in point, the HSE. And let's not forget all those QUANGOs and recent scandals like Tallaght Hospital.

Reducing the tax burden on people

Temporarily; we'll have even higher taxes soon probably.

-

Ah yes, the glory days of FF government.

rovert

patmar wrote: »

Growth rate of 7% + per annum
Workforce increasing by 1m
Full employment for first time in history
Emigration stopped
Reducing the National Debt
Investing 18b in the future pensions problem
Massive increase in spending on Social Welfare
Massive increase in spending on Health
Massive increase in spending on Education
Reducing the tax burden on people

Fueled by unsustainable growth which collapsed the economy in the long run. You are right FF deserve a:

fontanalis

patmar wrote: »

Could list 10 good things that happened under FF but as we know nothing will change the mindset of the ABFF.
Instead let me list 10 things that I have never ever heard the ABFF condemn

Growth rate of 7% + per annum
Workforce increasing by 1m
Full employment for first time in history
Emigration stopped
Reducing the National Debt
Investing 18b in the future pensions problem
Massive increase in spending on Social Welfare
Massive increase in spending on Health
Massive increase in spending on Education
Reducing the tax burden on people

At the end of the day these are the things the ABFF are condemning but refuse to say it.

Please carry on with the nitpicking.
FF may be down to 24% in the latest poll but at least we can look back to years of the feel good factor we gave to people

I bet you listen to Michael Buble aswell!