CCTV footage

Mrmoe

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

Is there any way that a member of the public can access CCTV footage with having to go to court etc?

Recently a bike of mine was stolen which I reported to security and I filled in an incident report. I have not reported it to the gardai. Security said they would look though it the following day. However, when I got back to them the follwing day they still hadn't looked through it but said they would get around to it and if they saw anything they would get back to me. I asked if I could get a copy and look through it myself but I was told that it was not allowed.

I would like to get a copy of the footage myself as I I do not think security are too interested. Is there any way I could do this? As far as I know they are a private security company that are employed.

sarahlulu

I believe the only people that will be given the CCTV footage are the gardai.

chargerman

Mrmoe wrote: »

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

Is there any way that a member of the public can access CCTV footage with having to go to court etc?

Recently a bike of mine was stolen which I reported to security and I filled in an incident report. I have not reported it to the gardai. Security said they would look though it the following day. However, when I got back to them the follwing day they still hadn't looked through it but said they would get around to it and if they saw anything they would get back to me. I asked if I could get a copy and look through it myself but I was told that it was not allowed.

I would like to get a copy of the footage myself as I I do not think security are too interested. Is there any way I could do this? As far as I know they are a private security company that are employed.

No as far as I know you are not allowed to get the cctv. I think its under the data protection act. The correct procedure would have been to ring the guards - sure its nothing got to do with security when its a court case.

Mrmoe

Thanks for the info. There is no court case at the moment, I was just wondering whether you would have to go down a judicial route to get access. I don't know who stole the bike and thats why I want to see the cctv footage. I do not think it is a priority for the security , nevermind the gardai. This is my 4th bike stolen in 2-3 years and nothing has ever happened or any follow up occured. If anything is going to get done I will have to do it myself.

Cunsiderthis

Mrmoe wrote: »

Thanks for the info. There is no court case at the moment, I was just wondering whether you would have to go down a judicial route to get access. I don't know who stole the bike and thats why I want to see the cctv footage. I do not think it is a priority for the security , nevermind the gardai. This is my 4th bike stolen in 2-3 years and nothing has ever happened or any follow up occured. If anything is going to get done I will have to do it myself.

I wonder who is employing the security firm? Is it your employer or someone else? From your posts, it is not clear, except that you reported your stolen bicycle to "security" rather than to the gardaí, and also filled out some documentation, although it is unclear who wanted the documentation or what they intended to do with it once you had completed it.

My understanding is that only a court order can compel the security firm to hand over the cctv footage, assuming they are the owners of it. It may well be they are not the owners of it if they are employed by someone else, and so it would not be their decision to hand it over, but would more likely be the decision of their employer or the person who owns the cameras and recording equipment.

If it was your employer who owns the cctv footage, they presumably have it in an attempt to prevent crime, and I see no reason, where a crime has been committed on their premises, as to why they would not agree to use the cctv footage in an attempt to identify the culprit(s). Most employers would be more than happy to identify criminals in their employment, as someone who woudl steal a bicycle today is highly likely to steam something else tomorrow, and again the day after.

Mrmoe

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I wonder who is employing the security firm? Is it your employer or someone else? From your posts, it is not clear, except that you reported your stolen bicycle to "security" rather than to the gardaí, and also filled out some documentation, although it is unclear who wanted the documentation or what they intended to do with it once you had completed it.

My understanding is that only a court order can compel the security firm to hand over the cctv footage, assuming they are the owners of it. It may well be they are not the owners of it if they are employed by someone else, and so it would not be their decision to hand it over, but would more likely be the decision of their employer or the person who owns the cameras and recording equipment.

If it was your employer who owns the cctv footage, they presumably have it in an attempt to prevent crime, and I see no reason, where a crime has been committed on their premises, as to why they would not agree to use the cctv footage in an attempt to identify the culprit(s). Most employers would be more than happy to identify criminals in their employment, as someone who woudl steal a bicycle today is highly likely to steam something else tomorrow, and again the day after.

It is a university campus and the security people work for a security firm that provide security nationwide. I am not to sure if I can name them here.

The reason I want to get the cctv footage myself is that I have no confidence that they are actually going to do anything. I have had 4 bikes stolen in the last 2-3 years. One from my house and and now three from the university campus. They were all well secured. They had to have some sort of equipment to cut/break the locks. When I was filling in the incident report the security guard told me that 4-5 other bikes were stolen in the day around the incident. It is fairly endemic at this stage but nothing will ever get done about it.

I will make a complaint to the gardai about it tomorrow regardless.

Cunsiderthis

Mrmoe wrote: »

It is a university campus and the security people work for a security firm that provide security nationwide. I am not to sure if I can name them here.

The reason I want to get the cctv footage myself is that I have no confidence that they are actually going to do anything. I have had 4 bikes stolen in the last 2-3 years. One from my house and and now three from the university campus. They were all well secured. They had to have some sort of equipment to cut/break the locks. When I was filling in the incident report the security guard told me that 4-5 other bikes were stolen in the day around the incident. It is fairly endemic at this stage but nothing will ever get done about it.

I will make a complaint to the gardai about it tomorrow regardless.

Have you considered writing to the University head asking for an explanation as to why they have security cameras, and security guards, when the former is not available to identify the culprits and the latter was not able to prevent the culprits stealing?

MagicSean

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Have you considered writing to the University head asking for an explanation as to why they have security cameras, and security guards, when the former is not available to identify the culprits and the latter was not able to prevent the culprits stealing?

It's available to the Gardaí and I'd say that's the reply he'll get.

bycikas

Mrmoe wrote: »

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

Is there any way that a member of the public can access CCTV footage with having to go to court etc?

Recently a bike of mine was stolen which I reported to security and I filled in an incident report. I have not reported it to the gardai. Security said they would look though it the following day. However, when I got back to them the follwing day they still hadn't looked through it but said they would get around to it and if they saw anything they would get back to me. I asked if I could get a copy and look through it myself but I was told that it was not allowed.

I would like to get a copy of the footage myself as I I do not think security are too interested. Is there any way I could do this? As far as I know they are a private security company that are employed.

I work in the security and basically public is not allowed to watch CCTV. It depends on the security company, most would take a look at the CCTV asap after the very first report,but...

The only and only ones ho can access CCTV are Gardai. (except security that is)

The other thing is that the premises management may not want security to do anything,that's why you have such a bad service. Some clients want security to be pro-active, that is deter and make arrests and so on. But at MOST CASES it's only deterrence - be there but don't do anything, we only need you cause of the insurance...

Sorry for your bike.

xtralis

It would be my opinion that mrmoe has a legal entitlement to be provided with any such cctv footage where he is identifiable. Such entitlement exists under the data protection acts 1988 & 2003 as the footage is in fact personal data and the data controller is obliged to respond within a period of 40 days of receiving written request. He may at this point provide the footage either in the form of discs or printed stills.

As regards the entitlement of the garda to view or otherwise obtain such information, the organisation would not have a similar automatic right to this, and indeed the data controllers, given the personal nature of the information involved should seek to satisfy themselves as to the integrity of any such investigation before casually passing it on.

(The identity of the data controller should be borne on signage displayed prominently on the premises)

eagle_&_bear

when it boils down to it, there will be a clear policy ground for not giving cctv footage to the general public - this is more to do with Data Protection and the recording of individuals and privacy concerns therein.

If you want a copy of the footage, you will have to report it to the Gardai and they inturn will obtain a copy.

As it stands, the cctv footage is the sole property of the college (not even the security firm, if indeed they are a seperate hired firm) so you're not really going to be successful if you start writing to heads of departments etc. You'll only cause trouble for yourself. Plus they will write back saying ''did you report it to the Gardai?'' so save yourself time, go report it and move from there.

In any event, if you have insurance on your property, you will need a Garda Investigation number to give to your insurance company before they will pay out on the bicycle/bike.

sorry to be blunt but no point jumping through all the hoops if you're not going to get anywhere with it

eagle_&_bear

xtralis wrote: »

It would be my opinion that mrmoe has a legal entitlement to be provided with any such cctv footage where he is identifiable. Such entitlement exists under the data protection acts 1988 & 2003 as the footage is in fact personal data and the data controller is obliged to respond within a period of 40 days of receiving written request. He may at this point provide the footage either in the form of discs or printed stills.]

Sorry, can not agree with this at all. CCTV is never given out to the public (notwithstanding that you are the aggrieved party) but this is simply NEVER done, and for very obvious reasons Data Protection is tightly monitored and if would simply open to anybody whose face appears in those stills to turn around and sue the college and firm for breaches therein.

bycikas

eagle_&_bear wrote: »

Sorry, can not agree with this at all. CCTV is never given out to the public (notwithstanding that you are the aggrieved party) but this is simply NEVER done, and for very obvious reasons Data Protection is tightly monitored and if would simply open to anybody whose face appears in those stills to turn around and sue the college and firm for breaches therein.

110% agree with it. Some people just turn around the law and try to understand it the way they want to. And the act is there to prevent information from spreading,to protect your ant other people privacy.

So if the CCTV (at this case) recording would be so easily accesible by generally anyone.. Then.. Tell me, where's the privacy protection?

And 9 out of 10 security companies do have policies to protect the recordings from the public - so you have NO way to see it. Garda themselves may not let YOU look at it. They will just overview it and let you know.. That's all. Unless there is actual need (if Garda thinks so) of you seeing it..

eagle_&_bear

bycikas wrote: »

Garda themselves may not let YOU look at it. They will just overview it and let you know.. That's all. Unless there is actual need (if Garda thinks so) of you seeing it..

Really the only time you need to see it is if it is going to court and the Gardai have arrested someone for theft contrary to section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001. Otherwise it will remain with the investigating Garda where it will be held in his/her locker until then.

there is valid policy for this.

xtralis

http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?m=m&fn=/documents/guidance/cctv.htm


http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?Docid=468&Catid=81&StartDate=1+January+2008&m=c

eagle_&_bear

if you read your own link-the data controller must satisfy him/her-self that a proper investigation is in being! If the controller is not satisfied then he/she is under no obligation to release the data.

From the above posts, (upto the time the posts were on the boards, the matter was NOT reported to the Gardai so no invesitgation is in being).

Further, you can only obtain those images if YOUR image is on the screen. how do you go about satisfying that tho? And any other images must be obscured - so then the would be thief would have to have his face obscured -surely that entirely defeats the purpose of the request!

If you let the gardai do the job they do best, then the information will be unredacted.

I know what you are saying but an ordinary joe bloggs can not satisfy the requirements if no investigation is present

xtralis

I appreciate what you are saying and indeed your right in questioning how productive the process would be!

I don't think the data controller needs to satisfy himself that an investigation is ongoing in order to comply with MY access request, that is my right regardless of any investigation by the garda.

My reading of it is that in the event that the garda requests the info, then he must satisfy himself that this is an official garda investigation and not simply a nosey member.

I would think it reasonable that as with any data protection request, the personal information should be provided in context and in that regard whatever else is ongoing should be displayed, and if we do see the bicycle being stolen by an obscure subject, then we could obtain a court order.
for production of the full material.

Longwinded approach I know, and your points are fair, but I would be surprised if the vast majority of operators / controllers of CCTV in Ireland realised their full obligations in this regard.

MagicSean

Would you not only be entitled to the portion of video which shows you?