Wind power in Ireland. Where to go from here?

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As far as I'm aware wind power in irleland in 2008accounted for 8.3% of irelands power consumption. What are the reasons we can't increase this significantly in the next few years? With the decrease in the worlds supply of oil, we enevitably have to turn to renewables or/and nuclear power. With no real sign of the Irish government making any headway on the nuclear side of things what are we to expect when oil prices start to escalate.
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Is the national grid able to cope with an influx of wind turbines?

Basically what wind power capacity does Ireland need? And when should we hope to achieve this by?

I imagine Ireland should hope for up to 20% of it's total power to come from wind energy on the next 10 years. Not really based on anything inparticular I just think it would be a move in the right direction. Would be interested to hear others opinions.*

gman2k

Lookup what Eddie Hobbs is saying about this issue.

quentingargan

With adequate interconnectors, Ireland has the potential to export vast quantities of wind energy. A turbine built here will produce far more power than the same turbine put up pretty much anywhere else in Europe, with the exception of the North Sea and Scotland.

We could easily produce far more electricity than we use ourselves, but at times we would be exporting, and at other times importing. Other EU countries have difficulty meeting their renewable targets and should be in a position to buy our surplus. So the answer is well over 100% of our needs:)

Banbh

Last year I investigated getting wind-power (much thanks to Quentin for his information) and put by the capital to buy and install a turbine on my windy site. Then I discovered that the ESB was only paying 9 cents a unit and had the programme tied up in so much red tape that it was unworkable.
Has anything changed or is the Minister/ESB still sitting on it?

quentingargan

Banbh wrote: »

I discovered that the ESB was only paying 9 cents a unit and had the programme tied up in so much red tape that it was unworkable.
Has anything changed or is the Minister/ESB still sitting on it?

You may have seen Eco-Eye last week in which Duncan kicked up quite a fuss about the current feed in tariff. For a few weeks, it can be seen here after which that link will expire.

There has been a very generous feed in tariff introduced in the UK for microgenerators, and there is a lot of talk in the industry that we should campaign for the same thing here. Personally I think the UK tariffs are too high, which is probably a bit odd coming from someone working in the industry, but I would argue that paying somone over 40p for electricity which you sell to their neighbours for less than half that is a bit OTT. We have better average winds here than in the UK and I would suggest that in good sites, turbines are viable at current prices, but not so on poorer sites.

I wouldn't consider the ESB paperwork too onerous, but their unique grid standards have severely limited the range of inverters available. By the way, if you think that the ESB has you tied up in knots, it is nothing to what is happening in the UK where generators have to be put through an MCS process which, in the case of wind turbines, costs just shy of €100K.

In the UK there is a group called the British Small Wind Energy Association which has been formed to campaign against MCS. Currently there is only a handfull of vendors in the UK able to sell turbines. They're looking for safety testing, but not the other aspects of testing (which are irrelevant in many cases because you get interference from turbulent winds, non-horizontal winds, and a host of other factors which make the output of a turbine quite an inexact science. But that's for another post.

As things stand in Ireland, the tariff is 19c for the first 3,000 units exported in any one year, for the first five years, and 9c thereafter. Clearly there is lobbying going on to get this raised, but in the current atmosphere, I wouldn't be placing any bets.

gman2k

@ Quentin - is there a link to info on the ESB site (or elsewhere) that explains the hoops one has to go through?
Regards

quentingargan

gman2k wrote: »

@ Quentin - is there a link to info on the ESB site (or elsewhere) that explains the hoops one has to go through?
Regards

Their leaflet is here but the forms can be downloaded from here. Basically they are only concerned about the inverter which must be EN50438 approved to their own Irish variations. I attach their protocols for inverters. I only know of three companies that have gone through the hoops on that side. Q

Banbh

Thanks for that Quentin.
As I understand it, you have to have the installation carried out by an ESB-approved fitter and also, you must have a contract with an ESB-approved service company.
Have you any current prices for a small turbine, installation and servicing?

quentingargan

Banbh wrote: »

As I understand it, you have to have the installation carried out by an ESB-approved fitter and also, you must have a contract with an ESB-approved service company.
Have you any current prices for a small turbine, installation and servicing?

As with any grid connection, it has to be done by an electrician who is registered with RECI or similar. There is an issue that the only company buying electricity back from microgenerators is the ESB, because at the moment, they are more expensive than their competitors, so to get the 19c tariff, for at least one year, you have to miss the discounts available from their competitors, and factor that into your payback times.

There is a plethora of products available on the market, some good, some not so good. Obviously can't name brands here, but you can expect to pay at least €14K installed for machines in the 2 to 3kw range, and a bit less than twice that for a machine twice the size (and output).

There is a bias towards smaller machines in the current feed in tariff because you only get 19c for the first 3,000 units exported each year. If you buy a machine twice the size, and that kicks you up to exporting 6,000 units per year, then you will only have half the income for the second half of your exported production. Of course, you will be saving the same 15c on all the stuff you use yourself.

I see a lot of people looking at very big machines, but the planning exemptions mean that at the bottom of their stoke, the blades will be only 9 or 10m off the ground. Unless your site is like an airport runway, there will be losses to turbulence at those heights, and more non-horizontal wind.

Banbh

Thanks again Q. So, basically, it's a non-runner for a Western smallholder such as myself.

It's really annoying that I still have to listen Minister Ryan and the Pat Kenny Show telling us that we can all become electricity exporters and supplement our farm incomes when it's just a PR stunt by the Green Party.

quentingargan

Banbh wrote: »

Thanks again Q. So, basically, it's a non-runner for a Western smallholder such as myself.

It is feasible to make your own turbine, a la Hugh Piggott, or install your own PVs. By comparison, in the UK, your turbine would have to meet MCS standards, costing you €100K.

In Ireland, the ESB at least doesn't care what your inverter is powered by. They just insist that the inverter itself is EN compliant. There is no additional cost for meeting this compliance AFAIK from people selling those inverters. No other countries allow you to connect to the grid without meeting either G83 or EN50438. The EN version is becoming harmonized throughout Europe, but as I said, ESB put its own national variations in.

Q