Papal infallability?

DrumSteve

When does it start?

Does it start before he is pope? (then its not just the pope who is infallible...?)

Does it start when he puts on the hat? (in that case does the hat have powers?)

can anyone explain? Btw the im being serious here and im not being smart in the above.

prinz

A Pope is not always infallible. He is considered infallible very, very rarely, only when he makes a pronouncement on a doctrine of Catholic faith. There have been Popes who have spent their entire papacy IIRC without making any infallible statements whatsoever.

DrumSteve

so its not all the time... its only when he's speaking about changes to the church?

Stephentlig

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm ( Catholic Encyclopedia)

The above Encyclopedia gives a good explanation

you can also look into the Cathechism of the Catholic church to find out more. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Pax Christi
Stephen

hivizman

There is a very good Wikipedia article on papal infallibility. The important thing to remember is that popes are human, and hence are not immune from sin and error. Papal infallibility applies only to declarations made "ex cathedra" relating to dogmatic teachings on issues of faith or morals. Any papal statement that is not ex cathedra, for example, in an encyclical, may be authoritative, but is not infallible in the sense of being preserved from the possibility of error.

In practice, ex cathedra declarations are used very sparingly, there being only three in the last 150 years or so (the doctrine of Papal Infallibility itself, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, and the Assumption of Mary).

prinz

DrumSteve wrote: »

so its not all the time... its only when he's speaking about changes to the church?

Not all the time. Only when he asserts that a certain belief is a central dogma to the Catholic Church.

antiskeptic

hivizman wrote: »

In practice, ex cathedra declarations are used very sparingly, there being only three in the last 150 years or so (the doctrine of Papal Infallibility itself, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, and the Assumption of Mary).

Sounds like bootstrap territory to me.

the ex-cathedra declaration that pronounced the doctrine of Papal Infallibility might have been in error - seeing as it occurred prior to the doctrine of Papal Infallibility being introduced.

Wouldn't it be the case that you have to assume infallibility at some point in order to make an infallible declaration. But assumptions can't be shown to be infallible.

hivizman

antiskeptic wrote: »

Sounds like bootstrap territory to me.

the ex-cathedra declaration that pronounced the doctrine of Papal Infallibility might have been in error - seeing as it occurred prior to the doctrine of Papal Infallibility being introduced.

Wouldn't it be the case that you have to assume infallibility at some point in order to make an infallible declaration. But assumptions can't be shown to be infallible.

This is what I understand to be the official Roman Catholic position on the points you raise (I have a lot of sympathy for your points, by the way ):

The primacy of the Successor of Peter was always believed as a revealed fact, although until Vatican I the discussion remained open as to whether the conceptual elaboration of what is understood by the terms 'jurisdiction' and 'infallibility' was to be considered an intrinsic part of revelation or only a logical consequence. On the other hand, although its character as a divinely revealed truth was defined in the First Vatican Council, the doctrine on the infallibility and primacy of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff was already recognized as definitive in the period before the council. History clearly shows, therefore, that what was accepted into the consciousness of the Church was considered a true doctrine from the beginning, and was subsequently held to be definitive; however, only in the final stage - the definition of Vatican I - was it also accepted as a divinely revealed truth.

Source: Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith: DOCTRINAL COMMENTARY ON THE CONCLUDING FORMULA OF THE PROFESSIO FIDEI (15 July 1998)

I understand that the primary author of this document was Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.