NCII and IACP (counselling)

lilsis

Ok I know there's probably already loads of imformation and stuff on the boards already, but can anybody explain the whole accreditation thing to me regarding NCII and IACP please? I'm looking at Master's in counselling in NCII which is accreditated by HETAC so I really don't see the problem and then it looks to me as though IACP don't accredit any Masters (or higheer) courses in counselling. I'm also wondering job wise if there's a big problem with going the NCII route? Oh I already have an undergraduate degree in Psychology, looking to go into counselling, don't want to do another undergrad and please don't suggest the Counselling Psychology course in Trinity, it's not really what I'm looking for and there's no way anybody could afford those fees especially not me. Anyway if anybody has any insights into the whole NCII and IACP thing any information would be helpful.

krankykitty

OK the insights are this. Basically HETAC is just a kind of accrediting for qualifications in general, so HETAC might accredit business degrees or law degrees, for instance.

However, in the world of counselling and psychotherapy, it's generally required, especially if applying for jobs with agencies, that you either gain or work towards accreditation with one of the accrediting bodies -be that IACP, IAHIP, ICP, PSI as a few examples. So a course having HETAC accreditation doesn't really mean anything at that stage of the game.

To get accreditation with one of the above bodies, or any other respected accrediting body, you need to ensure that your training is approved by them. So for instance, if you want accreditation with PSI you must ensure that whatever courses you do are approved by them. This means that when you finish the course, and go off to work towards your accreditation, they will recognise your course. If you do a course that isn't approved, its very possible your application will be rejected.

About NCII and IACP accreditation - NCII courses are not in the current approved list for IACP accreditation so this means if you do this course and hope to be accredited after your training with IACP, this will either not happen or will be very difficult. I don't know if NCII are accredited with any other body except for themselves so if you want to be affiliated with any other association they would probably be a bad option. I could be mistaken with this so why not call up or email the organisation you wish to accredit with and see what they think.

Can I ask why the counselling psychotherapy in Trinity isn't what you're looking for (apart from the fees, of course) ? As you have a psychology degree it would seem the most natural progression?? The fees are going to be substantial no matter which way you go...

Odysseus

The Independent College do a good HDip and Master in Psychotherapy they are psychoanalytic if your that way inclined, and the profession body there would be APPI.

JuliusCaesar

lilsis wrote: »

Ok I know there's probably already loads of imformation and stuff on the boards already, but can anybody explain the whole accreditation thing to me regarding NCII and IACP please?

I would suggest that you look at the thread on Statutory Registration which will be coming in, in the next few years.

lilsis wrote: »

accreditated by HETAC ......... IACP don't accredit any Masters (or higheer) courses in counselling. I'm also wondering job wise

Who are the major accrediting bodies for counselling? Do they accredit courses or individuals? Have you asked them what they think? On what basis do HETAC accredit? What qualifications are acceptable at European level?

lilsis wrote: »

please don't suggest the Counselling Psychology course in Trinity, it's not really what I'm looking for and there's no way anybody could afford those fees especially not me.

Well, obviously some people afford them, whether through rich parents or taking out loans or working or whatever.

What are you looking for? A quick, cheap, easy course or what? No reputable course will be any of those alas. Most of us who are qualified had a long and rocky and expensive road to get there.....not that I think everyone should suffer! But until Stat Reg is sorted out, all these Qs will keep coming up.

Odysseus

Just another thought, I'm not a member of IACP, but I sure I know members who have Masters level training. However, my point it there are a lot more bodies out there than the IACP, I would suggest you look at the area of therapy you are interested in, them find a suitable bodies that belongs to that modality, then look at courses that will get you membership of that body. If that makes sense.

MysticalSoul

As far as I know the NCII course is relatively new, so would not be able to be accredited with the IACP, despite how good the course may or may not be. A course has to be running for a minimum of 5 consecutive years (so I believe anyway) before a course can be accredited. It would not be impossible to get accreditation from a course that is not accredited, but in my opinion, would be too risky. I think part of the process if you applied having trained in centre that was not approved would be to send in all your essays, assignments etc to IACP.

Personally, I would stay clear of a College that had no approval, as at the end of the day, when you qualify you do want the odds to be in your favour.

RLIad

lilsis wrote: »

Ok I know there's probably already loads of imformation and stuff on the boards already, but can anybody explain the whole accreditation thing to me regarding NCII and IACP please? I'm looking at Master's in counselling in NCII which is accreditated by HETAC so I really don't see the problem and then it looks to me as though IACP don't accredit any Masters (or higheer) courses in counselling. I'm also wondering job wise if there's a big problem with going the NCII route? Oh I already have an undergraduate degree in Psychology, looking to go into counselling, don't want to do another undergrad and please don't suggest the Counselling Psychology course in Trinity, it's not really what I'm looking for and there's no way anybody could afford those fees especially not me. Anyway if anybody has any insights into the whole NCII and IACP thing any information would be helpful.

Hi LILSIS,

Graduates from the NCII will be as of 16th July 2010 registered with the Association of Professional Counsellors & Psychotherapists (APCP). This body will be recognised by the State and the new Statutory Body of Counselling Bodies. Members of the APCP will be a minimum of Degree educated standard, something no other organisation can say including the IACP. Already the APCP are recognised by the HSE and its members are the only counsellors in which the VHI will use for their clients and the HSE in 2010 hasemployed all of its counsellors from the NCII. The Masters programme is highly sought after and in July they will have a further 6 Masters Programmes come on board and are recognised and validated by HETAC, the only body in Ireland that can ratify 3rd level courses and is recognised throughout Europe and and the World.
Should you chose to do the MAsters programme through the NCII, it will be a good career move and you will upon graduation become a member of the APCP which I believe will be the top accrediting body of Counsellors in Ireland over the coming years as it will as I said earlier be the only National body, where all its members will be degree qualified minimum.
I hope this reply has helped.
Martin

stuf

I know there's been a few spats about NCII in recent times and I just want to make some observations from someone who's been viewing this forum for about 5 months. For the record, I have just completed the Higher Diploma in Counselling and Psychotherapy at DBS. Someone who I respect a great deal lectures for NCII but I was put off their programmes when I was deciding on a course by the fact that the educational organisation and accrediting organisation were both the NCII. By the look of Martin/RLIad's post, they have either rebranded or split off the accrediting organisation which is now APCP. TBH I hope it has been split off as the previous situation put me off studying with NCII as there is too much of a potential for a conflict of interests.

Since I've been looking at the forum, it seems that when NCII is mentioned then someone with post numbers in single digits wades in with a post defending NCII and quite often in a defensive manner. At best this is past or present students defending their education. At worst this is blatantly dishonest interventions by those involved with the running of NCII and has led to cries of "shill" and then the bickering begins. As far as I can see, none of this does the NCII any good and the repetitive nature of it just looks a bit desperate and pathetic from the outside.

Martin/RLIad, you make a couple of points which really should be clarified upon:

"Members of the APCP will be a minimum of Degree educated standard, something no other organisation can say including the IACP."

This may be true but it is disingenuous to state it without context. The organisations which eventually became the IACP and IAHIP were set up before there were degree programmes in Counselling and/or Psychotherapy and as such many of the older members of these organisations were pioneering the field in Ireland.

"...it will be a good career move and you will upon graduation become a member of the APCP which I believe will be the top accrediting body of Counsellors in Ireland over the coming years"

A couple of things here. Does APCP membership imply accreditation? What about supervised practice? I would be quite worried if APCP were calling people accredited without supervised hours.

You may believe that APCP will be the top accrediting body in the coming years but given the membership levels of IACP and IAHIP who now have co-accreditation and co-supervision agreements in place, it seems quite unlikely to me.

...recognised and validated by HETAC, the only body in Ireland that can ratify 3rd level courses..."

Partly true but in all reality what HETAC does is ensure the academic rigour of a course matches that expected of the various levels of degrees - it does not give a measure of any kind as to the quality of practical psychotherapeutic training. I'm not suggesting that NCII practical training is good or bad in this light but I do believe to continually wave the HETAC flag as a mark of quality is not helpful to anyone.

"the only counsellors in which the VHI will use for their clients and the HSE in 2010 has employed all of its counsellors from the NCII."

really? a very bold and sweeping statement. I know that the VHI states that the first contact phone counsellers have 100 hours client facing experience but haven't heard any statement about affiliation to any accrediting body. I have a meeting with my company's VHI rep next week. I'll ask her and report back.

In my own opinion, statement about the uniqueness of any college's respect, quality or inherent future wonders should be taken with a pinch of salt,

In my own experience of DBS the academic side of things was of variable quality but the practical training was out of this world. Saying that, I'm talking about two trainers. Someone entering the course may have different people and not have the same experience as me and I would say this is a valid statement about all the courses out there. The practical and experiential stuff is where you learn the trade and unfortunately I think it's potentially a lottery wherever you study.

What I would say to anyone looking at courses is that you should get in touch with the college and ask to be put in contact with previous students as they can give you the best picture of what a course is like. For the record, I would be happy to talk to anyone offline about my experience with DBS. Also to add that the DBS BA is set up with IACP accreditation in mind and the HDip/MA with IAHIP accreditation in mind.

Odysseus

RLIad wrote: »

Hi LILSIS,

Graduates from the NCII will be as of 16th July 2010 registered with the Association of Professional Counsellors & Psychotherapists (APCP). This body will be recognised by the State and the new Statutory Body of Counselling Bodies. Members of the APCP will be a minimum of Degree educated standard, something no other organisation can say including the IACP. Already the APCP are recognised by the HSE and its members are the only counsellors in which the VHI will use for their clients and the HSE in 2010 hasemployed all of its counsellors from the NCII.

Please elaborate I'm a HSE Counsellor in which service where these jobs? Also some bodies require a minimum of post-grad experience APPI of which I'm a member being just one example.

liberator

Hi Odysseus and Group

I work in the education field as a guidance counsellor and was at major conference today. Have been told that the one of the biggest developments in Counselling and Psyhcotherapy is underway and that NCII have just been awarded five masters by HETAC. I found this hard to believe because it would be sending a strange message about the whole profession of counselling and psychotherapy in Ireland. I also heard at the conference that VHI have been in negotiations with them and have asked for their counsellors to join them. It was also rumoured that something was happening with the HSE. I find it strange that this might happen does anybody know if this is in reality true. I am trying to advise adults on programmes and the whole ground seems be shifting. Any help welcome.

Liberator

Odysseus

liberator wrote: »

Hi Odysseus and Group

I work in the education field as a guidance counsellor and was at major conference today. Have been told that the one of the biggest developments in Counselling and Psyhcotherapy is underway and that NCII have just been awarded five masters by HETAC. I found this hard to believe because it would be sending a strange message about the whole profession of counselling and psychotherapy in Ireland. I also heard at the conference that VHI have been in negotiations with them and have asked for their counsellors to join them. It was also rumoured that something was happening with the HSE. I find it strange that this might happen does anybody know if this is in reality true. I am trying to advise adults on programmes and the whole ground seems be shifting. Any help welcome.

Liberator

All I can say is its the first I have heard of it. As with the HSE I'm on the clinical side so it takes time to filter through, but I doubt it. Stat Reg is a long time coming but sadly I don't expect to happen within the next 5 years. So for example if I pick up up right and the stuff others have suggested, its implying that if you didn't train with that gang you won't be employed. A lot of other colleges have Masters accreditated by HETAC, why would NIIC be so special?

I just don't buy it, for example someone who did say the MSc in psychoanalytic psychotherapy in UCD, imo it used to be one of the best training programmes around would not get a job with the HSE because they are not trained by NIIC, just can't see it happening. What congress where you at?

lookingaround

Wow, and I was accused of being a 'shill'!! Jeez I'm sure I sould mild by comparrison with Liberator!!!! Just in relation to the split, as a member of NCII and soon a member of APCP, I am very pleased with the new arrangements. It seperates out the college from the professional body and I'm really pleased with that as it might help to stop the confusion that doesn't only exist here. I sort of think liberator has lost the run of himself/herself a bit though!!! However I'm sure it's a fit of enthusiasm but I'm pleased if there is greater recognition of a range of professional membership bodies, I think others have said that here too from my readings of posts and that can only be a good thing. Groups putting each other down seems very silly to me.

liberator

Excuse me - 'Looking Around',

All I was saying is that I was at a conference in Mallow of Mediators in the Local Employment Services where I contribute as a specialist guidance counsellor. At one of the sub groups examing the role of counselling and not guidance counselling in hepling clients with personal difficulties the role of counselling support agencies came up. It was offered in the group by many experts that NCII was one group and that they were the leading body in counselling in Ireland. When I challenged this one particular person made the assertion that the Department had finally nailed their colours to the mast. Rumour is that they had awarded them 5 masters covering the whole of counselling. When I pushed the matter no one could back it up and that why I was asking on boards and for no other reason 'looking around'. Odyessus I am glad that you appear in the know, it just the amount of rumors going around about change in counselling are rife.

Pixied

Hi

I too have been trained with the NCII. I have been advised that an arrangement has been made with the VHI whereby members of the new counselling organisation APCP will be the preferred counsellors of choice for the VHI EAP, and possibly general counselling also. I do not have any more details then that. Apparantly the VHI were very happy with the standards of the APCP and an alliance of some form has been formed. I believe the website and full details of this scheme will be launched at the end of the month.

The ACPC ( Assoc of Professional Psychotherapists and Counsellors) is, I suppose, an offshot from the NCII, but is a separate body.

I realise that the NCII appears to be met with some suspicion here, but I have been very happy with the training I received from NCII and the colleges' willingness to be dynamic in it's approach to the industry.

If anyone is interested in more info it's probably best to contact one of the above organisations directly. I have not heard any information in regard to an arrangement with the HSE, however I am aware the college has good links with the HSE.

I hope that helps clarify some things at least.

liberator

Hi Pixied

I am lost here are you saying that VHI and APCP are in discussions I find this extremely hard to believe. Can you shed some light on these so called famous 5 masters or at least finally dispel the crazy rumour. As for the name Association of Professional Counsellors and Psyhcotherapists what give them the right to use the word professional in your title it is an insult to those of us who do not have the word professional in our title but whom I can also assure you in our manner and in our work are extremelyprofessoinal. Its time for ncii or apcp which ever one you want to put up or shut up. I will for my side as a guidance counsellor admit if they have the 5 masters then that will cause national issues but in all my years of watching and interacting with the Department this has never happened and I know it hasn't happened now so let me put it up to you and your side kick 'looking around' PUT UP OR SHUT UP.....!

Pixied

Hi Liberator

I only claim to represent myself.

As per another post of mine I am considering applying for a Masters in CBT part time over two years ( I believe) with the NCII. This is one of the five masters you refering to which the NCII has now been cleared to offer by HETAC.

I believe some of the other masters include, a Masters in Supervision, Leadership and Management, Youth and Adolesence studies, Pastoral Counselling as well as their general Masters in Psychotherapy and Counselling. I attended an information meeting recently where this was discussed. I may be incorrect in some of the titles but that is the general gist of the Masters that have been approved. If you need more details please contact the relevant organisations as discussed.

However, I might add, my reason for contributing to this thread was in the spirit of being helpful. I am not a member of the APCP and may decide not to join. Likewise I may decide to continue my studies elsewhere or not at all. I am not a 'sidekick' of any other poster here, and have been a responsible contributor to Boards.ie for some time. I also take exception to your language and tone.

As mentioned, please contact these organisations directly if you require more information. It is probably the best route.

bnolan10101

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bnolan10101

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krankykitty

We're taking your word for all these "facts" - any hard evidence?

bnolan10101

A picture tells a thousand words if you go to the website [URL=][/URL] and the latest news section you will see the photograph of the official signing of the legal agreement with the HSE and APCP, FACT. The VHI have now written to the APCP members to take them on FACT. Science Direct, is available in the members section free to all members FACT. New programmes have been brought forward including psychology and train the trainer FACT. The masters granted to NCPII have been validated and will run this September FACT. Its all there FACT and presented for you - go have a look and see what can be done by a professional body who has the interests of its members at heart and not getting their money for nothing in return -

Now of you think any of the other so called professional bodies can match this – show us your facts. I will guarantee you, you will not be able to present on strategic agreement, not one new programme, not one technical support for counselling members, nothing, oh and ah that a..................FACT
On one other about APCP - its FREE - and that another FACT.

krankykitty

Theres no need to state it all so defensively, FACT.

It's not really the best advertisement for your organisation when people join up to a forum with the sole intention of pimping it. And coincidentally on all the NCII threads.

I notice on that website it gives the standards for becoming a chartered member, one of them is "You must be working in a professional capacity as a counsellor and or psychotherapist with a minimum of 2 years supervised clinical practice". Is there an "hours" figure for that? Eg, I could be working for 2 years in clinical practice and only be doing 2 hours a week.

bnolan10101

There is a difference between been proud of and pimpng. APCP - is charitable body, NCII is a 3rd level college both are different. Now you asked me for proof and I supplied it and of course you have not commented on that proof provided . So let me ask you again why join any organisation that charges upwards of €300 for membership and for which one gets nothing in return.

Why have they no collaborative agreements, why have they never developed chartered status. Why have they no formal CPD that is credible. You keep asking but I don't see you answering. But then I know why - you have no answer. The HSE nailed their colours to the mast and so will others legally. Now go and be Kranky somewhere else and when you get answers based on fact come back.

As for chartered membership at least now we have something we can protect legally for the first time in this profession. We are doing something not just talking about Please read the section on membership and you might actually work it out once again its www.apcp.ie

JuliusCaesar

bnolan10101 wrote: »

There is a difference between been proud of and pimpng.

There's also a difference between being proud of, and repeating yourself umpteen times.

Be careful. This is a warning.

Come out with some facts - ie. define what exactly is the legal agreement with the HSE, with VHI etc as your website does not make this clear. Pictures can lie.

What's so different between Chartered status (your lot) and Accreditation (ICP)? And does this have any relevance to Statutory Registration?

bnolan10101

What the difference and again the point is being missed. I put up the facts and the proof and the asked my questions and got no reply. So once again why pay upward of €300 to exitsting professional bodies when all one get to quote a former member is 'The Emperors New Clothes'.

Chartered status like the psysiotherapists and the accountants is the way to go and for the first time in counselling and psyhcotherapy it has become legally protected.

JuliusCaesar

Okay. that's it. No facts provided and we've now given you more than enough advertising. I'm locking the thread and will be watching you carefully. Any more advertising and you'll be banned.