Non-EU Labour

johnhargrove

I recently applied for a Graduate Position with Davy Stockbrokers.
A job I really had my hopes set on.
I got through to the first round interview.
And didn't get through to the next round.

Davy's have had 2 further rounds since then,
and are now down to the last 20candidates for 10 positions.
I have recently found out that two students in my class in Trinity have
made it to the last round.
Turns out both of them are non-EU citizens, one is Chinese, the other American.

It really pisses me off that in a time of recession and thousands of well-qualified Irish young graduates are crying out for positions like these, yet Davy's a long-standing Irish company seem to be preferring non-European citizens.
Meaning few more will be confined to the dole queues, or emigration.
I think its time people made a stand.

coolbeans

It's harsh but they were obviously better candidates than you. Davy's is the definition of a hard nosed free market capitalist company. Seeing as you want to work for them you should know that only the best get through. They're just interested in money makers and it doesn't matter a damn what colour their skin or passports are. Free enterprise, free markets (including jobs market) and all that. You signed up for this ethos when you decided to do the business course you enrolled in. Can't have it every way.

I assume you did business or finance. It's irrelevant anyway to the argument.

Rented Mule

Two out of twenty is favouring ?

meathstevie

Your own philosophy biting you in the arse. Though.

johnhargrove

First off,
how can one tell from a generic interview that those two were better than the other 2,000 who apply for the job?

One point is that the US have tightened their immigration policies for foreign graduates in their universities since the onslaught of the recession, ours have become more loose.

Sure why don't we just open the floodgates and let any non-EU worker come in and work here, couldn't we technically replace every Irish worker?

johnhargrove

Two of twenty favouring?

Its the only two I know who made it to the last round, there could be more for all I know

MartMax

Generally it's not only down to qualifications but obviously skills and presentation demonstrated during the interview. The fact that these two persons are non-EU citizen might be irrelevant at all.

johnhargrove

Sure it might be down to interview/presentation skills,
it just pisses me off that Davy Stockbrokers in a time when thousands upon thousands of Irish graduates are on the dole queues desperate for work, they want to hire non-EU graduates.
I hope their clients take note of this, along with politicians.
At least in the UK Gordon Brown has the balls to start speaking up for British workers, coining the phrase 'British jobs for BRITISH people'!!!!!!

tatli_lokma

johnhargrove wrote: »

Sure it might be down to interview/presentation skills,
it just pisses me off that Davy Stockbrokers in a time when thousands upon thousands of Irish graduates are on the dole queues desperate for work, they want to hire non-EU graduates.
I hope their clients take note of this, along with politicians.
At least in the UK Gordon Brown has the balls to start speaking up for British workers, coining the phrase 'British jobs for BRITISH people'!!!!!!

I find your attitude quite distasteful.

You didn't get through and you choose to focus on the 2 non-EU people you know of and rant about Irish jobs for irish people rather than take stock of your experience and learn from it in a positive way.

other people were better thought of than you - the colour of their skin or nationality is irrelevant and SHOULD BE irrelevant. All that matters is their ability to do the job. If they get through they must be deserving, as if they are currently students in order to get full work permission Davy will have to sponsor them and prove that they were the most suitable for the job - above members of the Irish community who applied. Davy would hardly go to that bother (as it is a BIG bother) if they weren't worth it, if they could get someone from Ireland equally as good.

Your posts smack of racism IMO.
Should my husband not be allowed a job despite the fact he lives here and has contributed to the tax coffers, has a family and ties? If he goes for a job next to you and is equally or better suited to the job than you, should this be overlooked because he is non-EU and you are born and bred Irish??? :mad:

utter nonsense is what you are sprouting - sour grapes has led you to search for some excuse to blame others than to accept the fact that there was a better man (woman) for the job than you.

number10a

Funny how you mention that one of your alternatives is emmigration. A bit hypocritical methinks. If you were to actually to practice wht you're preaching, you shouldn't even consider leaving Ireland to "steal" jobs from locals in another country.

ToasterSparks

I'm not sure how the interview process works, but if Davy are deliberately hiring a diverse range of employees (As in, they sat down and thought, we need at least 2/3 non-EU graduates on our team) then I can sympathise with the OP to a degree. If more capable Irish people are overlooked for the vacancies in order for Davy to be seen as a diverse multicultural workforce, then yeah, that is wrong. But, most probably, this isn't the case, and these people were simply more capable or desirable employees than you were.

But I can see how frustrated you are about outsiders taking Irish jobs. However, it works both ways, and if I go abroad in the future (which is likely, as an unemployed graduate) I'll be potentially 'stealing' a job from a local national there. It's just the ways things are at the moment. Jobs are impossible to come by, and as graduates, we are in a tough position.

tatli_lokma

I just want to draw attention to something OP said:

johnhargrove wrote: »

I got through to the first round interview.
And didn't get through to the next round.

Davy's have had 2 further rounds since then,

So basically he wasn't good enough to get past the first round, but two others got through 2 futher stages than him, and yet he thinks it is unfair that they get a job over him because they are non-EU and he is Irish!!!
:eek:

johnhargrove wrote: »

Meaning few more will be confined to the dole queues, or emigration.
I think its time people made a stand.

yes, much better that we have less qualified IRISH people doing a half arsed job and send all the dirty foreigners home than have qualified capable people do the job.
What a load of utter rubbish!

OP is just pissed off that these people are better qualified than him, but rather than take it on the chin and improve himself and his abilities he would rather focus on the nationalities of two of the successful candidates. Seriously??? OP needs to grow up and join the real world, otherwise that dole queue will be a firm fixture in his future.

esharknz

As a New Zealander married to an Irishman, I've had a few malicious comments made about me working in Ireland, so I have no time for such comments. I'm quite taken aback by such comments, particularly given that New Zealand lets in a fair number of Irish every year. One would hope they don't hear of such comments about them taking away jobs from New Zealanders....

Tail Wagger

I would just like to ad my 50cent worth if I my, and I don't want to stand on anyones toes here. But I must say this, I served my time to become a tradesman, and that was not to day or yesterday. However, I was always thought to respect your interviewees for what they see in you. You look in the mirror you see yourself, you judge yourself as you want to see yourself. If you got to the last 40 candidates, you done well to do that, you just didn't get to the end.
Even if you had got to the last 20 and failed, who then would you have blamed? yourself? I doubt not?.. Have a good look in that mirror again to night and ask that person who is looking back, Why are you not excepting your interviewees decision?.. this person is at this position because Davy trust him/her to make the right choice for them... So don't go blaming someone else because you did not qualify for the next round of the job. Maybe your arrgance that is showing in this thread, showed up in your interview?

esharknz

MartMax wrote: »

Generally it's not only down to qualifications but obviously skills and presentation demonstrated during the interview. The fact that these two persons are non-EU citizen might be irrelevant at all.

If they in any way required a work permit/green card, this would have to have put these people at a significant disadvantage.

johnhargrove

Cincikchick wrote: »

I find your attitude quite distasteful.

You didn't get through and you choose to focus on the 2 non-EU people you know of and rant about Irish jobs for irish people rather than take stock of your experience and learn from it in a positive way.

other people were better thought of than you - the colour of their skin or nationality is irrelevant and SHOULD BE irrelevant. All that matters is their ability to do the job. If they get through they must be deserving, as if they are currently students in order to get full work permission Davy will have to sponsor them and prove that they were the most suitable for the job - above members of the Irish community who applied. Davy would hardly go to that bother (as it is a BIG bother) if they weren't worth it, if they could get someone from Ireland equally as good.

Your posts smack of racism IMO.
Should my husband not be allowed a job despite the fact he lives here and has contributed to the tax coffers, has a family and ties? If he goes for a job next to you and is equally or better suited to the job than you, should this be overlooked because he is non-EU and you are born and bred Irish??? :mad:

utter nonsense is what you are sprouting - sour grapes has led you to search for some excuse to blame others than to accept the fact that there was a better man (woman) for the job than you.

Again why don't we open the floodgates to ANY non-EU citizen who wants to come here.
If we did they'd come in their thousands,

Should you're husband allowed a job here?? Well if another Irish person can take the job then NO!

I'm happy to discuss emigration. Take the US, they have made their immigration rules stricter for foreign graduates of US universities since the recession began. Why aren't the rules on a level pegging?

DO you want to see more young Irish graduates on the dole?
Increasing the labour supply with foreigners, decreases their chances of getting a job. Simple supply and demand

johnhargrove

esharknz wrote: »

If they in any way required a work permit/green card, this would have to have put these people at a significant disadvantage.

They're graduates, the Irish govt. brought in a rule that foreign students can have up to 12months to a job in IReland upon graduation.

Again there's very few jobs out there for new grads in Ireland, and in the long-run its going to have an adverse effect on our economy.

As for the Kiwi, yes the Irish do go to New Zealand on working visas, but the vast majority are restricted to 'casual labour' for 12months.

johnhargrove

Cincikchick wrote: »

I just want to draw attention to something OP said:



So basically he wasn't good enough to get past the first round, but two others got through 2 futher stages than him, and yet he thinks it is unfair that they get a job over him because they are non-EU and he is Irish!!!
:eek:



yes, much better that we have less qualified IRISH people doing a half arsed job and send all the dirty foreigners home than have qualified capable people do the job.
What a load of utter rubbish!

OP is just pissed off that these people are better qualified than him, but rather than take it on the chin and improve himself and his abilities he would rather focus on the nationalities of two of the successful candidates. Seriously??? OP needs to grow up and join the real world, otherwise that dole queue will be a firm fixture in his future.

Better qualified than me?
WTF?
I'm in the same class as the two in question. I'm actually doing better than them.
Again I wouldn't care if the job was given to EU citizens.
But why in a time of recession when thousands, not just me are struggling to get a job in the few positions that are available, are we allowing non-EU nationals to get highly prized graduate positions in our country?
I cannot do the same in their countries.

Again, for every single job in this country we could find a Non-EU citizen who could do each job better.
If thats your philosophy why don't we give unrestricted access to anyone from a non-EU country to come and work here?

Did other nations get it wrong when they tightened their access to the labour market?

Why can't an Irish graduate from an American university work in the US,
while an American graduate from an Irish university can work in Ireland?

Answer me!

Welease

johnhargrove wrote: »

Better qualified than me?
WTF?
I'm in the same class as the two in question. I'm actually doing better than them.

Your qualification are much more than you academic qualifications. You got to the first round interviews on your academic qualifications, beyond that point it appears you were not what the employer was looking for.

Rather than worrying about labour restrictions (which are out of your hands), I would spend the time focussing on why when it came to meeting you, the employer didn't want to persue the opportunity. Therein lies the root of your issues.

johnhargrove

Welease wrote: »

Your qualification are much more than you academic qualifications. You got to the first round interviews on your academic qualifications, beyond that point it appears you were not what the employer was looking for.

Rather than worrying about labour restrictions (which are out of your hands), I would spend the time focussing on why when it came to meeting you, the employer didn't want to persue the opportunity. Therein lies the root of your issues.

Yep, the two in question were not more qualified than me.
they might have got a different interviewer and a rub of the green.

I personally don't mind getting rejected if an EU national got the job, I just don't think non-EU citizens should be getting these roles anymore.

Another point that's true is that I've no control over labour restrictions.
We need a political party like the British Conservative Party in Ireland who take a strong stance against immigration in these harsh economic times.

I emailed Davys twice and rang them got no response. Wan kers

Welease

johnhargrove wrote: »

Yep, the two in question were not more qualified than me.

How do you know? It's unusual for an employers to select the worst candidates for the next round..... So I'm gonna guess they are in fact more qualified than you..

As I said, there is far more to the process than just your academic qualifications.. It looks like those two (and all the others!) were far more qualified than you give them credit for. They could have been better qualified by virtue of attitude, personality, communication skills, insight, prepatation, leadership etc... everyone of those attributes will come into play..

johnhargrove wrote: »

I emailed Davys twice and rang them got no response. Wan kers

That statement speaks volumes in itself...

MIN2511

johnhargrove wrote: »

They're graduates, the Irish govt. brought in a rule that foreign students can have up to 12months to a job in IReland upon graduation.

Again there's very few jobs out there for new grads in Ireland, and in the long-run its going to have an adverse effect on our economy.

As for the Kiwi, yes the Irish do go to New Zealand on working visas, but the vast majority are restricted to 'casual labour' for 12months.

To correct you; it is 6 months from the day of they receive their results!

johnhargrove wrote: »

Yep, the two in question were not more qualified than me.
they might have got a different interviewer and a rub of the green.

I personally don't mind getting rejected if an EU national got the job, I just don't think non-EU citizens should be getting these roles anymore.

Another point that's true is that I've no control over labour restrictions.
We need a political party like the British Conservative Party in Ireland who take a strong stance against immigration in these harsh economic times.

I emailed Davys twice and rang them got no response. Wan kers

You sound very bitter about this; while i understand your frustration at being unemployed, you should realise that the market and most employers want the best!
You may think you are better than these non EU graduates, but they have something you don't hence they have the job you want and you're here moaning.

Also you talk labour restrictions; have a look at entemp. There are more labour restrictions in Ireland than in the States! Majority of the companies in Ireland have American & Chinese connections, we need their business, we run their business... Having American and Chinese employees in a company looks good for business relations.

esharknz

johnhargrove wrote: »

They're graduates, the Irish govt. brought in a rule that foreign students can have up to 12months to a job in IReland upon graduation.

Again there's very few jobs out there for new grads in Ireland, and in the long-run its going to have an adverse effect on our economy.

As for the Kiwi, yes the Irish do go to New Zealand on working visas, but the vast majority are restricted to 'casual labour' for 12months.

Yes, it's SIX months, and they need to have an employer sponsor at the end of this, otherwise they will need to leave. See http://www.entemp.ie/labour/workpermits/graduatescheme.htm.
A few employers I've spoken to have said that requiring a work permit/green card is a massive disadvantage to people. My employer doesn't want to go anywhere near them as they are such a hassle to get.

I don't care about the number of Irish who are migrating to New Zealand, but I've heard of a number in the process of getting permanent residency there, by word of mouth. I just hope they don't get treated in the same way I've been treated here.

I am married to an Irishman, why on earth shouldn't I be able to work here?

johnhargrove

Again they are not better qualified than me,
and its not me thats the issue,
its all the other EU citizens who could have taken their place.

Again, if employers want the best candidates in the world, why doesn't Irish govt. allowed unrestricted access to non-EU nationals to the Irish jobs market. We can find someone better for every position in another country.

Where do we set limits?

Again America has brought in tight immigration controls since the recession, has it affected them adversely?
Again why can't I get a job in the US, if a Yank can get one here?

Do you want to see more young Irish on the dole queues?
Do you want to see more taxpayers money being spent on social welfare?

all this talk of a job stimulus package, baffles me. We could decrease the number of Irish on the dole (a small bit) by decreasing the access non-EU citizens have to our labour market.
And by the way the Irish govt. have already done this somewhat. Were they wrong to do so???

Welease

johnhargrove wrote: »

Again they are not better qualified than me,
and its not me thats the issue,
its all the other EU citizens who could have taken their place.

Logic dictates they are... Deal with it.

Why do you believe you are better qualified when you couldnt even get past the first interview round? It really isn't all that complicated...

starfish12

get over yourself, define better qualifications, how do you know what they have worked at in the past, charity work they may have done, achievements in school, what they do outside of work...big companies like Davy take EVERYTHING into account, not just whats written on your college results, and if your attitude in this thread is anything to go by I can see exactly why you didnt get through!! results are one thing, an interview is something completely different, you obv got to the first round on your results & after that its up to your performance in interviews etc. which seemingly wasnt at the same level as the other candidates which is unfortunate for you, but not their problem regardless of where they are from.

Murilloinf

Me thinks that you did not get the job for the same reason that you get no sympathy here, but then it's just an opinion of a non-Irish graduate in Ireland, what for you probably isn't worth much...:rolleyes:

RealistSpy

With your attitude I can see why they didn't employ you.

Do you have any work experience in this position? extra activities? were you polite during the interview? were you passionate about the job? Do you speak another EU language? Do you know the history an dfact about this company?

Do you know what college does to you? it makes you really smart but it doesn't give you work experience!!

You didnt get through sorry but you have to deal with it, motivate yourself to get stronger.

esharknz

starfish12 wrote: »

get over yourself, define better qualifications, how do you know what they have worked at in the past, charity work they may have done, achievements in school, what they do outside of work...big companies like Davy take EVERYTHING into account, not just whats written on your college results, and if your attitude in this thread is anything to go by I can see exactly why you didnt get through!! results are one thing, an interview is something completely different, you obv got to the first round on your results & after that its up to your performance in interviews etc. which seemingly wasnt at the same level as the other candidates which is unfortunate for you, but not their problem regardless of where they are from.

Constructively, when I was turned down for a graduate position I would have liked, I considered what the other candidates might have that I didn't have at that stage, and made changes. Yes, it's really hard to be turned down for a position you'd love. I, and a huge number of university graduates have been there.

I ended up staying in University for a year longer, and picked up work as a course coordinator/tutor, and worked like crazy to get a first class honours degree. I also applied for a number of scholarships that could be mentioned in a CV, and was granted some of these. I'm in no way suggesting that you should take this route, it's the route I took. I ended up getting a position I was very happy with after doing this.

Nevermind the non-EU nationals, I think you are far better off focusing on what changes you could make to make yourself more appealing to employers, rather than them.

starfish12

johnhargrove wrote: »

Where do we set limits?


Maybe we should make everyone stay in their own county while we're at it, keep all our dublin jobs for ourselves!!!

good on Davy....glad to see people like the OP don't slip thru the recruitment net!!!!!

tatli_lokma

so my husband should leave Ireland and leave his family and responsibilities, rather than have a job here, because an Irish person could do that job?? WTF?? skewed logic there - you do realise that if my husband did that I would then be a deserted wife and therefore entitled to social welfare benefits, which taxpayers would foot the bill for. Yes that is a much better idea than having my husband work for a living and support his family and pay taxes!

From what you are saying the government should go into every place of business in Ireland and insist that all members of staff be prove they are EU. any non EU staff would be removed immediately and replaced with an EU person from the dole queue. Non-EU individuals who own their own businesses should hand them over to the government for them to be reassigned to an EU national.

Ok, I'm chosing not to read any more of OP's utter nonsense - ill formed logic driven by bitterness.

From your attitude on here, OP, I wouldn't give you a job sweeping the streets - be glad you didn't get the job, god imagine having to work along side all those 'foreigners' when you could be working with green in the blood paddy's! how terrible that would be for you!

Your comments are just insulting and blatantly racist. I am recommending that mods either close the thread or move it - it has no place in this forum as it has turned into OP ranting about non-EU migrant workers, rather than a post looking for advice/info on work and jobs.

OP, I hope I never have to meet anyone like you in my working life. Only because I don't want to be banned I would tell you exactly what I think of you (and its not much).
your attitude will stand in the way of your future career substantially more than any non-EU candidate will.

johnhargrove

RealistSpy wrote: »

With your attitude I can see why they didn't employ you.

Do you have any work experience in this position? extra activities? were you polite during the interview? were you passionate about the job? Do you speak another EU language? Do you know the history an dfact about this company?

Do you know what college does to you? it makes you really smart but it doesn't give you work experience!!

You didnt get through sorry but you have to deal with it, motivate yourself to get stronger.

Work experience? Yep did 9month co-op with Dolmen
Extra activities - set up my own 11-a-side football team
Passionate bout the job- very!
Speak another EU language? Non but I speak Fluent Japanese, as I spent a year there studying the language in Kobe
Do I know about Davys? - I was emailing 4 Davy staff members for weeks about the position.

Again I wouldn't care as long as EU citizens got the job

Again people have failed to answer my question of allowing unrestricted access to Irish labour market to anyone.
Why don't we replace everyone in the country?

esharknz

Access to the Irish Labour market is restricted. I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

I personally don't require a work permit, but that is only because my husband is Irish, and even then, I have to register with immigration authorities here, and tell them if a number of things happen (e.g. I have a baby, they need to know, I change my mobile number, they need to know etc etc).

Trust me, employers don't want to go through the hassle of getting a work permit/green card if they don't have to. Firstly, there are no guarantees it will even be approved. Secondly, they can take some time to process.

Welease

johnhargrove wrote: »

Again people have failed to answer my question of allowing unrestricted access to Irish labour market to anyone.
Why don't we replace everyone in the country?

They don't have unrestricted access to the Irish labour market.. question answered..

Will you go away now?

starfish12

OP do you realise how recruitemnt & selection policies work? the company picks the person that is best suited to their needs...not the person that thinks they are the best....no-one has answered your question because its a joke. Finding a job is tough, and there is alot of competition out there, including people who make the effort to come to ireland to seek a job, with no guarantee of getting one and nothing to back them up if they dont.

by go and start your bitter, ill informed, racist thread elsewhere and leave this forum to people seeking advice on jobs/careers etc.

johnhargrove

Cincikchick wrote: »

so my husband should leave Ireland and leave his family and responsibilities, rather than have a job here, because an Irish person could do that job?? WTF?? skewed logic there - you do realise that if my husband did that I would then be a deserted wife and therefore entitled to social welfare benefits, which taxpayers would foot the bill for. Yes that is a much better idea than having my husband work for a living and support his family and pay taxes!

From what you are saying the government should go into every place of business in Ireland and insist that all members of staff be prove they are EU. any non EU staff would be removed immediately and replaced with an EU person from the dole queue. Non-EU individuals who own their own businesses should hand them over to the government for them to be reassigned to an EU national.

Ok, I'm chosing not to read any more of OP's utter nonsense - ill formed logic driven by bitterness.

From your attitude on here, OP, I wouldn't give you a job sweeping the streets - be glad you didn't get the job, god imagine having to work along side all those 'foreigners' when you could be working with green in the blood paddy's! how terrible that would be for you!

Your comments are just insulting and blatantly racist. I am recommending that mods either close the thread or move it - it has no place in this forum as it has turned into OP ranting about non-EU migrant workers, rather than a post looking for advice/info on work and jobs.

OP, I hope I never have to meet anyone like you in my working life. Only because I don't want to be banned I would tell you exactly what I think of you (and its not much).
your attitude will stand in the way of your future career substantially more than any non-EU candidate will.

First off did I say Irish?? - No, just EU

Racist?? - Emmm, there are many non-EU folk whiter than me, I still think EU citizens, white, Black, Muslim whatever should get preference.
I'm sure if the same thing happened in their countries they wouldn't like it.

Govt. go in to every place of business and remove non-EU workers? No, employment laws should be in place so employers so preference for EU workers. Again this has already been done by the Irish government, were they wrong??
We should not renew their visas or issue new visas - Both of which have been done by the Irish govt., the US govt, and other EU govts.

We cannot expect unemployment to decrease if we allow unrestricted access to the Irish labour market

Get off your high horse

GoneShootin

Oh BOLLOX to this.

johnhargrove - I hope you never have to immigrate to find employment only to find that the companies that you interview for have a "we only hire locals here ... boy" policy.