How do cyclist behave when driving?

NeedsTraining

Just wondering how the cyclist on here behave when not on their bike but in a car/jeep etc?

The reason I ask, is I was out cycling this evening and a Landrover Freelander pulled out of an estate in Dunboyne and came very close to hitting me. Thankfully he didn't and thankfully I now know my brakes are capable of an emergency stop.
I am assuming he is/was a cyclist as there was a bike rack over the spare wheel on the back.
He did stop (only after I shouting at him), and said he never saw me plus a number of other choice words. Bright red top must be hard to see these days.

I like to think that I am very aware of cyclist when I am in my car. How are others when driving?

P.S. If the driver of that Freelander happens to be on here, a fine example you are setting your kid (sitting in the back).

Victor

Humans are intelligent, people are stupid.

Just because someone sometimes uses a bike is no guarantee that they are aware, competent, etc.

jammygit

The only way to deal with potential risks on the road is to treat others as potentially dangerous - in other words drive and cycle defensively. Even the most careful road users can have a momentary lapse of concentration - although that never justifies the 'hand signals' and choice language that often accompanies bad driving. .

cdaly_

I find myself being more aware of cyclists and also realising that that manouvre I just made took no account of a potential cyclist and I must watch out next time.

I've also occasionally had to back off from a small gap when I remember I'm not on the bike.

DirkVoodoo

Much more aware of cyclists since I started riding a bike. I would never overtake one on a bend, give plenty of room. Sure what does it cost me, seconds as most. Much more aware when turning left also, something that most people in this country seem to be oblivious to.

My parents also say they are more aware of cyclists and give them plenty of room when overtaking.

If anything, people should be given a bike for a few weeks before sitting their driving test to get an idea of what it is like. I would imagine a lot of the "sure there is a perfectly good cycle lane there" argument would disappear, much like the stop-start cycle lanes actually.

Alkers

The bike rack could have been for his kid's bike or he could have been a mountainbiker. As far as my own behaviour, I was a regular cyclist before learning to drive any other form of vehicle. When getting driving lessons my instructor constantly gave out to me for driving too close to the centre of the road, my defence being that I was leaving room inside me for bikes. I would be far more aware of looking in my mirrors before turning left or right than any of my friends or family even those with much more driving experience than me. A reason I think people should have to re-take their driving test every five to ten years.

Civilian_Target

Same. When I was learning to drive after years on a bicycle, I was told I was too close to the kerb when driving normally, and overtook with too much clearance. Old habits die hard.

Of course, I believe I am a reasonably good driver, but I'm not in a good position to evaluate that one...

BostonB

Cyclists completely under estimate how easily they are hidden behind blind spots in vehicles. Especially A pillars when pulling out of side roads, or C pillars when changing lanes, or turning. You could be lit up like a xmas tree and still completely hidden. Even as you and the car move, you might stay in the blind spot relative to each other, and you'd be convinced the car must see you.

thebouldwhacker

Simona1986 wrote: »

or he could have been a mountainbiker.

WTF? is it Friday already??? Easy on the splitter comments, there is no evidence to show roadies and MTBers drive differently.... anyway he was probably a triathleate

wayne0308

When I come across a group of cyclists on the roads in my area and slow up behind them to pass safely I always check to see how fast their going . But I tend to give them a lot of space when passing as I've nearly been hit a couple of times myself.

SerialComplaint

I always give any cyclists that I see lots of room when I'm driving. Also, I try to leave decent sized gaps between me and the car in front when stopped in traffic, to allow a biker to cut through. I do confess that occasionaly forget, e.g. doing a manoevre (e.g. moving towards left to undertake someone turning right), I cringe and think 'wow, good job there wasn't a cyclist coming'

ednwireland

Simona1986 wrote: »

he could have been a mountainbiker. QUOTE]
or a triathlete

when driving i (mostly) give cyclists more room, but my mileage has gone from 15000 to about 5000 miles a year so dont tend to see that many cyclists.

Canis Lupus

I always give cyclists a wide berth and try (as one is supposed to) to check my inside mirror before taking a left turn.

Having said that, people make mistakes. I've pulled out in front of cars I've missed and in turn cyclists, peds and other cars have done the same to me.

Shorter answer: **** happens.

Dr_Colossus

NeedsTraining wrote: »

The reason I ask, is I was out cycling this evening and a Landrover Freelander pulled out of an estate in Dunboyne and came very close to hitting me.
..............
He did stop (only after I shouting at him), and said he never saw me plus a number of other choice words. Bright red top must be hard to see these days.
..............
P.S. If the driver of that Freelander happens to be on here, a fine example you are setting your kid (sitting in the back).

People will always have lapses in concentration and do stupid/dangerous things. I can forgive these transgressors if they realise their error and explain/apologise for the actions. If the driver of the Freelander in question had said that he never saw you, genuinely apologised for his actions and asked if you were ok, then I wouldn't have any real grievance and move on hoping that he'd leart from the experience. However what really annoys me is when these drivers/road users get all thick with verbal abuse and even threathening physical abuse etc even though they were in the wrong and stated that they didn't see you etc that I think action needs to be taken. I'd be all in favour of reporting the driver in question for dangerous driving and hopefully he'd receive a warning from the guards which might make him reflect on his actions and demeanour. My 2c anyway.

buffalo

I think there're people who are good drivers, and good people who are bad drivers. Or just make an occasional mistake. Whether you're a cyclist or not probably has little to do with it.

I was chatting with a friend who doesn't cycle, but does drive, and it transpired that she's become far more vigilant and aware of cyclists due to my being a cyclist. Various tales of near misses and inconsiderate behaviour have had an influence on her driving.

droidus

I cycled for years before getting a driving license and Im definitely more aware of cyclists as a result - but I sometimes wonder if this doesnt in someway make my driving hazardous as Im behaving in a way that most cyclists dont expect.

One example - A few months ago I was driving North up the Swords road in Santry. It was about 8.30 and the roads were reasonably busy. I was heading towards Northwoods in Santry Woods intending to turn left. I had overtaken a ninja cyclist in the cycle lane to my left and as I slowed and indicated whilst approaching the turn about 20m ahead of him I (almost) rolled to a stop to allow the cyclist to undertake me on the inside - but when I checked my mirror he was gone.

Next thing I know there's a massive screech beside me and I see the cyclist violently crash to the ground in front and to the right of the car. I thought he was dead TBH. He'd obviously assumed that I was going to cut across him (as is the custom) so he decided to overtake on the right. Unfortunately he did so just as a Tesco arctic was coming up the lane and struck him. The reaction of the truck driver? He jumped out of the cab and immediately screamed at me that I had cut the cyclist off, forcing the cyclist to overtake on the right. Seeing as my car was pretty much stationary at the time of the accident I resisted the temptation to argue and simply point to the empty cycle lane and the massive gap on my left.

Now, it turned out that he was OK. He was a Czech lad who immediately took respnsibility for the accident. The guards couldnt have given a **** about him, but the fire/ambulance guys were brilliant. He wouldnt go to hospital so I ended up driving him home to Phibsbrough. He claimed he was OK, but his left leg was obviously very stiff. Bike wasnt too badly damaged apart from a destroyed front wheel. Very lucky...

Now - if I had done the usual and simply taken the left hand turn at normal speed (with the possibility of cutting him off) rather than slowing down and allowing him to pass on the inside, that accident wouldnt have happened...

Canis Lupus

droidus wrote: »

I cycled for years before getting a driving license and Im definitely more aware of cyclists as a result - but I sometimes wonder if this doesnt in someway make my driving hazardous as Im behaving in a way that most cyclists dont expect.

One example - A few months ago I was driving North up the Swords road in Santry. It was about 8.30 and the roads were reasonably busy. I was heading towards Northwoods in Santry Woods intending to turn left. I had overtaken a ninja cyclist in the cycle lane to my left and as I slowed and indicated whilst approaching the turn about 20m ahead of him I (almost) rolled to a stop to allow the cyclist to undertake me on the inside - but when I checked my mirror he was gone.

Next thing I know there's a massive screech beside me and I see the cyclist violently crash to the ground in front and to the right of the car. I thought he was dead TBH. He'd obviously assumed that I was going to cut across him (as is the custom) so he decided to overtake on the right. Unfortunately he did so just as a Tesco arctic was coming up the lane and struck him. The reaction of the truck driver? He jumped out of the cab and immediately screamed at me that I had cut the cyclist off, forcing the cyclist to overtake on the right. Seeing as my car was pretty much stationary at the time of the accident I resisted the temptation to argue and simply point to the empty cycle lane and the massive gap on my left.

Now, it turned out that he was OK. He was a Czech lad who immediately took respnsibility for the accident. The guards couldnt have given a **** about him, but the fire/ambulance guys were brilliant. He wouldnt go to hospital so I ended up driving him home to Phibsbrough. He claimed he was OK, but his left leg was obviously very stiff. Bike wasnt too badly damaged apart from a destroyed front wheel. Very lucky...

Now - if I had done the usual and simply taken the left hand turn at normal speed (with the slim possibility of cutting him off) rather than slowing down and allowing him to pass on the inside, that accident wouldnt have happened...

You know oddly enough I hate when drivers do what you describe Whilst you do it with consideration the fact is once a car overtakes me and indicates an intention to turn left in due time then you have right of way. Cyclists do understand this you know

I get it all the time when I see drivers looking at me in the side mirror and I sigh to myself and I either have to go to the right and into traffic or just slow and stop and wait them out and then struggle back up to speed again.

So, long story short, I'd prefer you just turned left and got out of my way.

DirkVoodoo

Yeah I don't like cars slowing down to let you pass either, unless they are right alongside you of course. It was all my own fault however.

I nearly had a bad crash about 2 years ago, the car could have turned across my path and I would not have passed the same point for another 2-3 seconds. Instead I looked over my shoulder and prepared to move out of the cycle lane (on road) as I always do at this point (the slip road on the N11 that leads up to Stillorgan). Looked back in front and there was the car stopped, managed to swerve inside and braked hard, snapped a spoke in the process.

I was about 4 feet away from hitting the back of a stopped car at ~ 40 kph, driver was very apologetic and I was a bit shaken. Could have been worse than a broken spoke. Stupid Dirk!

On the flipside however, on Tuesday I was coming out of town, turned left off that road linking Baggot street and Leeson street, back onto Leeson street and this knob in a Honda Accord starts waving his hand, pointing at the cycle lane. I was out on the road because there were 2 vans loading/unloading in the bus lane. Did he want me to cycle on the footpath? Was there a need for the aggressive overtake? I caught him at the red light and, yes I'm sorry, I gave him the finger. I was in front of a bus at the lights, when it went green mr.Honda accelerated in front of both of us, cut in front of the left lane and sat in traffic. As I was cycling in the cycle path and came alongside his car, he started moving it towards the kerb trying to cut me off and as soon as he got a gap to turn left over Leeson street bridge, swerved across me again.

I think somewhere between the two is where I would like most drivers to treat cyclists, not overly cautious and not overly aggressive.

droidus

Well - legally speaking he has to let me turn if he sees me indicate BUT, it depends on how close I am to the turn when I overtake him.

In this case I judged that he could easily have covered the distance between the time I overtook and the time I went to turn. This opinion was pretty much vindicated by the fact that he crashed only an instant after I slowed to turn. If I had taken the turn and he had stayed in the cycle lane I doubt he could have stopped in time to avoid crashing into me and I would have pulled the classic 'overtake then quickly turn left' maneuver that causes so many accidents. I'm certain that had I performed that turn in a driving test it would have been an instant fail.

I don't think that would have been preferable. As a motorist I am obliged to show due consideration to other road users. My point is that this behaviour in itself seems to be reasonably rare in relation to cyclists, and as a result cyclists 'expect the worst' from motorists.

Raam

Once a vehicle overtakes me and signals to go left, or if it even makes any kind of shape to go left, I will not pass it on the left, cycle lane or no cycle lane. A few times, some drivers have overtaken, signaled left then slowed down to allow me to pass as I choose. If it's too busy to overtake on the right, then I'll just sit there waiting for them to finish. There is just too much of a chance for something to go wrong due to a misinterpretation of intentions.

droidus

Raam wrote: »

Once a vehicle overtakes me and signals to go left, or if it even makes any kind of shape to go left, I will not pass it on the left, cycle lane or no cycle lane. A few times, some drivers have overtaken, signaled left then slowed down to allow me to pass as I choose. If it's too busy to overtake on the right, then I'll just sit there waiting for them to finish. There is just too much of a chance for something to go wrong due to a misinterpretation of intentions.

I'm kind of the same - but if I know someone has seen me and traffic is moving slowly Ill generally take the left...

But if cyclists expect motorists to generally behave like cnuts, is it actually safer to behave that way when driving?

DirkVoodoo

I think the most dangerous setup I have seen is the new pedestrian filter at Fosters avenue. Traffic turning left onto Fosters avenue now gets a red light if the pedestrian crossing is in use. I have seen, countless times, drivers either forget or ignore this and turn left anyway.

Anyway, normally when the light is red you can cruise up ahead of the traffic and sit there in plain view, no problems.

If it's green, you simply move with the traffic, the cars moving ahead of you turn and any behind you wait for you to go through.

Unfortunately with the red light on left, you are allowed to breeze through if going straight on your bike, on the inside of any stopped traffic turning left. The guys waiting to turn left are normally pretty annoyed that they are on a red when (most times) there is no one crossing as they have pushed the button and crossed already. This means they are looking across at the little green man, waiting to turn, foot hovering over accelerator, hands gripping the wheel. I normally slow down when I see this, I've already seen a few drivers gun it left as soon as the light goes green. It's a place where one of those mirrors positioned on a pole with a "have you looked left for cyclists?" kind of signs would be handy.

DirkVoodoo

Hmm..wrong thread.

Alkers

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

WTF? is it Friday already??? Easy on the splitter comments, there is no evidence to show roadies and MTBers drive differently.... anyway he was probably a triathleate

I said he might have been a MTBer to explain the bikerack, as in he may not have much experience of cycling a bike on the road which is what the whole thread is about. What's with the Friday reference?

DirkVoodoo

Simona1986 wrote: »

I said he might have been a MTBer to explain the bikerack, as in he may not have much experience of cycling a bike on the road which is what the whole thread is about. What's with the Friday reference?

Friday is typically when the "Yiz shud all be cyclin on the footpad!", "Why do peddlers brake red lights?" threads pop up.

cosmic

I've been cycling for 10 years now and I've just started learning to drive too. I've only been driving for about 6 weeks but I'm super conscious of cyclists on the roads and of not going over the line into the bike lane. Having been on the other side of things for so long has me very aware now.

blorg

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I think the most dangerous setup I have seen is the new pedestrian filter at Fosters avenue. Traffic turning left onto Fosters avenue now gets a red light if the pedestrian crossing is in use. I have seen, countless times, drivers either forget or ignore this and turn left anyway.

Far from the only place where there is a pedestrian filter on a left turn, they are common enough things. Off the top of my head Clonskeagh Road at the junction with Milltown and Haddington Road leading onto Baggot Street have similar. A reasonably high percentage of drivers simply ignore the filter red and jump the light... irrespective of whether a pedestrian is crossing. Motorists break lights as commonly as cyclists, they just do it in a different way.

petethedrummer

blorg wrote: »

Motorists break lights as commonly as cyclists, they just do it in a different way.

They also break a different subset of the traffic laws. Living on the malahide road, I would say only the oldest and ditheriest of drivers obey the speed limit on that stretch.

There are some people that are just useless in cars and on bikes. its like they are differently abled in the spatial awareness department. I have one acquaintance I hate cycling near and also hate being a passanger in their car, due to a general lack of observation, delayed reactions and over correction in both modes.

IM0

droidus wrote: »

Well - legally speaking he has to let me turn if he sees me indicate BUT, it depends on how close I am to the turn when I overtake him.

In this case I judged that he could easily have covered the distance between the time I overtook and the time I went to turn. This opinion was pretty much vindicated by the fact that he crashed only an instant after I slowed to turn. If I had taken the turn and he had stayed in the cycle lane I doubt he could have stopped in time to avoid crashing into me and I would have pulled the classic 'overtake then quickly turn left' maneuver that causes so many accidents. I'm certain that had I performed that turn in a driving test it would have been an instant fail.

I don't think that would have been preferable. As a motorist I am obliged to show due consideration to other road users. My point is that this behaviour in itself seems to be reasonably rare in relation to cyclists, and as a result cyclists 'expect the worst' from motorists.

Yep sounds like you are indeed being TOO aware of cyclists and what they will or wont do, concentrate on the rules rather than interpretations.

None of us are mind readers, you carry on driving by the road rules and let the rest of us treat all drivers as muppets, its just safer that way

I could of course be missing some small detail in your post or whatever, but bottom line please drivers dont over take and then turn left in front of us
and ESPECIALLY dont dont overtake indicate STOP/SLOW wait and expect me to go up the inside of your left side now that you've decided to let me through :mad:

droidus

me@ucd wrote: »

Yep sounds like you are indeed being TOO aware of cyclists and what they will or wont do, concentrate on the rules rather than interpretations.

None of us are mind readers, you carry on driving by the road rules and let the rest of us treat all drivers as muppets, its just safer that way

I could of course be missing some small detail in your post or whatever, but bottom line please drivers dont over take and then turn left in front of us
and ESPECIALLY dont dont overtake indicate STOP/SLOW wait and expect me to go up the inside of your left side now that you've decided to let me through :mad:

I think youre missing both the small and the big details TBH.

The rules of the road state that a cyclist should not pass on the inside of a vehicle turning left - fine.

In relation to driving, the rules of the road state:

Turning left from a major road to a minor road

• Check your mirrors well in advance for traffic following behind you.
• Give a left-turn signal and slow down.
• Keep as close as you safely can to the left-hand edge of the road, using your mirrors to watch for cyclists or motorcyclists coming up on your left.
• Watch for flashing amber arrows that allow you to proceed to the left if no traffic is approaching from the right.
• Where possible, leave room for other vehicles to pass on the right.
• Make the turn, keeping close to the left-hand edge. Do not hit or mount the kerb.

Whch puts the burden of responsibility on me to ensure that I dont hit a cyclist or pedestrian approaching on the inside when I turn.

In this case there was such a short distance between where I overtook the cyclist and where I would have made the turn that I felt the only safe option was to assume the cyclist would pass on the inside and to slow down as required and allow him to do so. I cant assume that every cyclist knows the rules of the road, in fact it would make more sense to assume they dont. My main priority when driving is to avoid killing or injuring both others and/or myself.

Lumen

me@ucd wrote: »

I could of course be missing some small detail in your post or whatever, but bottom line please drivers dont over take and then turn left in front of us and ESPECIALLY dont dont overtake indicate STOP/SLOW wait and expect me to go up the inside of your left side now that you've decided to let me through :mad:

It's fine to overtake then turn left immediately, just do it without braking.

Cars have four wheels, you only need to use two at once