What is it like to believe in God?

Terry

Firstly, I ask this in the Christianity forum because I was brought up as a Christian.
Secondly, my memory is not great, so the following is from what I do remember.
Thirdly, I do not believe in any higher power. I am not here to challenge beliefs. I'm just curious as to how people who do believe in God are affected by their beliefs.

When I was a child, I was given the standard Catholic version of a vengeful God who smites all of those who so much as fart in public (forgive the extreme analogy. I'm just riffing here).
As I got older, I learned of other versions of Christianity where God was not so vengeful, but still did not take kindly to transgressions. However, there was still the ingrained Catholic guilt in the back of my mind.

I was then exposed to the vastness of the Universe and my beliefs and fears began to dwindle.

I have not believed in a God for over 20 years now. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

As people who do believe in god, I ask this; Is your God vengeful, and do you fear him?
Do you find solace in your beliefs?
Can you explain, if possible, what it is like to have faith in a being you have never seen, but have only read about in the bible?

Please note once again that I am not challenging beliefs. I know it may come across that way, but I'm just really curious.

BrianCalgary

I don't find God vengeful. I see Him as being loving and caring and wanting the best for me and to live my life to the fullest using what he has given me to do so.

I find God to be a great comfort as we have gone through some pretty crappy stuff and find Him to be a great comfort as I go through some crappy stuff as we speak. To know He is there and in control keeps my spirits up and my sense of humour alive and well.

But I have met him outside of the pages of His book. I have known His physical presence and his blessed assurance in times of need. I have known His presence during times of joy.

He is real and He desires for me to be the best I can and I strive to do so.

PDN

Terry wrote: »

As people who do believe in god, I ask this; Is your God vengeful, and do you fear him?

I fear Him in the sense that I revere Him and, because He has sone so much for me, don't want to do anything that would grieve Him.

I don't fear Him in the sense of cringing or thinking that He's going to zap me.

I think He is amazingly merciful, doing everything He can to avoid having to punish us - only doing so when we persist in spending an entire lifetime rejecting His forgiveness.

Do you find solace in your beliefs?

Yes, when my daughter died I found great comfort in my beliefs. I also draw strength from my faith.

Can you explain, if possible, what it is like to have faith in a being you have never seen, but have only read about in the bible?

I haven't seen Him in a physical sense, but I feel His presence with me on many occasions. Also He has answered prayer innumerable times, so my knowledge of Him is not just from reading the Bible.

antiskeptic

Terry wrote: »

Firstly, I ask this in the Christianity forum because I was brought up as a Christian.

Lucky you. Imagine if you were brought up a Confucian

Welcome.

I'm just curious as to how people who do believe in God are affected by their beliefs.

It's a good question. Belief for it's own sake is hollow. We, being motion-based beings (in thought or act) should be interested in the direction a belief causes us to go in.

When I was a child, I was given the standard Catholic version of a vengeful God who smites all of those who so much as fart in public (forgive the extreme analogy. I'm just riffing here).

Don't worry about us, worry about the God who smites you for farting Standard RC exposure noted.

As I got older, I learned of other versions of Christianity where God was not so vengeful, but still did not take kindly to transgressions. However, there was still the ingrained Catholic guilt in the back of my mind.

In my own opinion, the issue isn't so much that RC gets it completely wrong. It's that it tweaks things just enough to cause a diversion down the wrong track.

Guilt exists and is the result of transgression against God. But the purpose God has for deploying this "tool" isn't to condemn us to a life of misery. Rather, his purpose is to lever us free from our limpet-like grip on the rock of sin.

In other words; guilt ain't necessarily the enemy (althought the problem is discerning God-given guilt from Catholic guilt)

I was then exposed to the vastness of the Universe and my beliefs and fears began to dwindle.

Which indicates that the size of the God you were brought up with was to be contained within the walls of a church. Whereas Gods purpose in creating the heavens was to indicate to you the majesty and enormity of God. That he stands outside the heavens - not that he is subject to them.

I have not believed in a God for over 20 years now. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

You might agree that the only way it will make sense to you is if God turns up personally. If not don't worry, discussion in this forum will soon convince you that no one has ever been reasoned into into believing in God by means of discussion.

Fortunately, non-RC Christianity generally holds that a personal, unmistakable-to-you relationship with God is the first base of any dealings you might have with him. And that if you don't have that yet then it is attainable.

To your questions:

As people who do believe in god, I ask this; Is your God vengeful, and do you fear him?

He is furious wrath against sin of any kind. There is no sin ever committed that will not have it's full price extracted by exposure to God's wrath.

He issues amazing grace to sinners who want him. There is no sin they can commit that he will not transfer onto Christ, who bears those sins on their behalf

I don't fear God in a craven, shrinking way. I know I am going to heaven when I die. I know my sin has been forgiven: past, present and future. I know I can't please God more than I do.

I do fear God in an awestruck way. Take a look at the Universe and imagine yourself meeting such a one face to face. Only a fool would approach such a meeting flippantly.

Do you find solace in your beliefs?

I can fully understand Christians preferring to be thrown to lions. There is nothing that the world could offer me that I would trade for what I have with God. If you saw my day-to-day life you'd hardly believe it though - I'm still a sinner and rack sin up at a horrendous rate.

But I'm saved and I've an eternity with God and without sin to look forward to.

Yes, it brings solace. In so many way. Consider it a scent that pervades every aspect of life. And that scent is perhaps best called "peacefulness" - even when I'm in trouble, even when I'm down, even when lifes a bitch. There's this background drumbeat: all is well, all will be well.

Can you explain, if possible, what it is like to have faith in a being you have never seen, but have only read about in the bible?

It's difficult. The relationship isn't just Bible based, it's direct one-to-one in which God deals with you directly: sometimes through the Bible, sometimes through what he has created, sometimes through a direct thought. You need to imagine a being for whom there is no barrier, day or night.

Consider:

A women down our way is in transition between no relationship with God and relationship with God. This state is often characterised by hazy notions about God and a desire for God. In a hazy, fuzzy way she's wanting some way in which God will "demonstrate" his existance in a way that is clear to her. This is natural and God expects nothing different.

She's with her daughter in Tescos doing the shopping, a 20 minute drive from her house. Her daughter pesters and is finally bought, one of those foil, helium-filled balloons and bounces around after her mum to the car. The balloon is red with a picture of a bear on it.

Putting the shopping into the car, the daughter loses her grip on the balloon and it's gone: up, up and away. Tears..home.

The next morning this woman opens her kitchen door and steps out into the yard. In a bush by the door is caught by it's string, a red, helium filled balloon with a picture of a bear on it. This woman has been waiting for an unmistakable sign and recieves an sign which satisfies her (if not the assembled atheists who are busily working out probabilities).

And so the relationship begins proper. And not a Bible in sight yet.

Please note once again that I am not challenging beliefs. I know it may come across that way, but I'm just really curious.

Challenge isn't something to be feared so challenge away.

1 peter 3:15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander

kelly1

Terry wrote: »

When I was a child, I was given the standard Catholic version of a vengeful God who smites all of those who so much as fart in public (forgive the extreme analogy. I'm just riffing here).
As I got older, I learned of other versions of Christianity where God was not so vengeful, but still did not take kindly to transgressions. However, there was still the ingrained Catholic guilt in the back of my mind.

Hello Terry, unfortunately in past decades, God's mercy and love was rarely heard or preached about, it was all hell-fire and brimstone (apparently). Lots of people have told me this. These days the pendulum has swung the other way and we don't hear very much about sin and damnation.

Last week, the Gospel in Sunday Mass was about the story of the woman caught in the act of adultery and the Pharisees asked Jesus what should be done with her. Instead of saying that she should be stoned, Jesus basically made it clear that they had no right as sinners to judge her. Jesus didn't condemn her but instead told her to change her ways.

The Gospel the week before was about the famous Prodigal Son. Again this parable is about mercy and shows how ready God is to forgive. He forgives with open "arms".

Terry wrote: »

I was then exposed to the vastness of the Universe and my beliefs and fears began to dwindle.

I have not believed in a God for over 20 years now. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

My view is the opposite, I don't think life makes a whole lot of sense without God. It means life on this planet has no ultimate purpose.

Terry wrote: »

As people who do believe in god, I ask this; Is your God vengeful, and do you fear him? Do you find solace in your beliefs? Can you explain, if possible, what it is like to have faith in a being you have never seen, but have only read about in the bible?

I don't believe that God is vengeful at all. I believe the God is love itself and if God does punish us in any way, it could only be for our own good - like a parent punishing a wayward child. I only fear God in the sense that I would fear offending His goodness and mercy to me. I have fear in the sense of respect for God's will. And yes, I find great comfort in knowing that there is a God who loves each and every one of us and wants to give us all that He has and only wants our love in return. I find comfort in knowing that life has an ultimate purpose which is to share eternally in the joyful divine life of God.

But it's not all a bed of roses. Being Christian means a total commitment to following Christ which means making a lot of personal sacrifices. But doing God's will brings great peace and a joy that's hard to describe. It's like an inner light and it lifts you above all mundane things.

God bless,
Noel.

Fanny Cradock

Hey Terry!

Those are all good questions. They are also big questions. And as is often with the big things in life, a concise answer is not always possible or desirable. Deep understanding can take some effort.

When I was a child, I was given the standard Catholic version of a vengeful God who smites all of those who so much as fart in public (forgive the extreme analogy. I'm just riffing here).

It is good to see that we already have something in common. As a Christian, I don't believe in that God either. Like the image of a some dothery auld fella who favors white robes and can be seen surfing fluffy clouds, I reject the notion of a capricious tyrant God who is as fond of smiting as he is in desperate need of our affections. Why? Because it is a caricature, a shallow representation of a Being who, in some very real sense, is infinitely more complex than we could ever hope to grasp. This complexity is reflected in the long, mysterious and often troubled interactions between man and God. An understanding of the scope of the bible - its time-span and cultural context - is often required to gain a better understanding of what is being said. This doesn't always remove the challenges though.

I was then exposed to the vastness of the Universe and my beliefs and fears began to dwindle.

If by that you mean that the very existence of the universe - primarily its size - helped shed you of the fears of such a tyrant God existing, I'm happy for you. Though I would be confused as to why the size of the universe would disprove God, even if it is the nasty one that neither of us believes in. I actually think there is interesting evidence to suggest that the universe had to be something like this size to form stars, planets, etc.

As people who do believe in god, I ask this; Is your God vengeful, and do you fear him?

Simple answer: no and no. With regards to the first question, I think a longer answer would expand on the idea that God is not just love, he is also a God of justice, which is different to being nasty and spiteful. (I'll see if I can dig up a little more on this if you like.)

Do you find solace in your beliefs?

Let me put it this way. Does the belief that God is a God of love and justice, and that he, through Jesus, had a plan to redeem all of fallen creation (and us in it!) from sin and death and decay bring me solace? Damn right it does!

I think that David B. Hart said it very well when he wrote the following.

We can rejoice that we are saved not through the immanent mechanisms of history and nature, but by grace; that God will not unite all of history’s many strands in one great synthesis, but will judge much of history false and damnable; that He will not simply reveal the sublime logic of fallen nature, but will strike off the fetters in which creation languishes; and that, rather than showing us how the tears of a small girl suffering in the dark were necessary for the building of the Kingdom, He will instead raise her up and wipe away all tears from her eyes—and there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor any more pain, for the former things will have passed away, and He that sits upon the throne will say, “Behold, I make all things new.”
Link

Can you explain, if possible, what it is like to have faith in a being you have never seen, but have only read about in the bible?

I'm not sure that it is entirely possible. Dare I suggest that it is like a short man asking what it is like to be a tall woman. A type of understanding my be reached, but full understanding is out of reach.

Anyway, while it is possible that I'm reading your intent incorrectly, I detect at the root of your question the implication that faith is blind - "Christians have a book and that's it!" (We have had this discussion here quite recently. I could probably unearth the thread given time). My opinion is that there are different types of knowing - seeing isn't always the foundation of believing - and Christians will often attest to God - a personal God - who is present in their lives, not just as a nice idea or a good feeling that came from an old book but as a real being who is taking loving interest in all our lives.

Please note once again that I am not challenging beliefs. I know it may come across that way, but I'm just really curious.

No need to worry, we get challenged about our beliefs here all the time

Thomas828

"Is God vengeful? Do you fear Him?" I fear Him because He can end my life just as easily as He started it. But I also love Him for all the beauty in the world and for making my life a small part of it. "Do you find solace in your beliefs?" Yes, with my beliefs I can find a lot of answers to life, the universe and everything, especially things that can't be explained by science alone. "What's it like to have faith in something unseen?" That's hard to explain. It's easy in your everyday life to forget all about God. He's not a physical presence like a mountain or a building, and you often need a reminder that He is there. But He manifests Himself numerous and unexpected ways. Off the top of my head I can think of a change in the weather, plants growing where you would not normally expect them to grow, the behaviour of animals... or me coming back to the Christian faith.

TravelJunkie

Everyone's answered very nicely.

I have something to add.

In a way, the RC and growing up with the christian message around you, gives the impression that God is a conceptual figure. And that Jesus is a historical figure.

But, Jesus is alive. and God is real and around you all the time. If you look for Jesus and God you will find them because they are in the present and not in the past.