Wife and 2 young kids..... can you live on the jobseekers allowance alone?

alyuciao

Picture this scenario and please feel free to let us know what you think.......

a) Ok, so you are in the enviable position of owning your home outright, but you lost your job last year and are about to go on the job-seekers assistance.

b) There is little or no savings in the bank (say... 3000 yoyo's).

c) Husband, wife and 2 children (under 10 years' old) = 384.7 p/week allowance

d) Child benefit = 300 p/month

e) You may or may not be entitled to extra benefits, you can think about applying for those later.

The question is simple, while searching for a new job ( and hopefully it wont take another year ); can you live on the jobseekers allowance ?

Can it be done and still have some semblance of a normal life?

Sleepy

It depends on what you mean by semblance of a normal life tbh. Two cars on the road and a couple of holidays a year isn't going to happen.

Even if one doesn't own their home outright, they'd qualify for rental allowance sufficient to rent a 3 bed house in most parts of the country (including some very nice areas).

I think I can safely say I'd be able to support my family on €23604.40 a year tax free if I'd no loans to pay and a comfort zone of three grand in the bank for emergencies. It's just under 2 grand a month which is roughly the equivalent of a job with a salary of €25000 per annum but as per your scenario with no rent or mortgage to pay out of it.

I may well be in this situation in a couple of months time and assuming I get rent allowance, I'll be okay even whilst paying off an old personal loan.

The only way it's hard to live in this sort of situation is if you're drowning in credit card debt or have a huge mortgage and are in negative equity.

With no debts you could actually live quite a reasonable life on that - I'd certainly fancy my chances of keeping a car on the road and managing to take the family away for a week in the summer on that budget.

alyuciao

mmmmmmmm ...........　Cheers Sleepy for the reminder

I'd forgotten about the car..... and the motorbike.

So the bills that are necessary to be paid are

Car insurance (Over 40, 1st time insurer)
Motorbike insurance 350cc (as above)
Gas
Electricity
Phone / Internet bundle
TV license
2 x mobile phones
Bin collections
Water rates
School books
School Uniforms

and anything else that I've forgotten

The_Honeybadger

OP I am foolish enough to be working full time when I'd be better off on the dole and have two young kids like yourself. After I pay rent and petrol for my commute I wouldn't have any more than that left I don't think and have managed ok, my wife will be going back to work at weekends shortly and this will greatly ease the burden, but once you are not expecting to live a yuppie lifestyle you'll be ok. Like sleepy said don't plan any hols, watch what you spend and remind yourself every time it gets you down that it won't be forever.

EDIT, are things like motorbike insurance necessary? Not trying to judge but maybe you could look at selling the bike or at least taking it off the road until you are back on you feet?

bullpost

Think you'd be entitled to allowances for school stuff so you can discount those tbh

alyuciao

Indeed the motorbike could be taken off the road, for that matter so could the car. There is a bus service (of sorts), the motorbike is what I use ( or used to use ) for going to work.

Capt'n Midnight

There is another forum ..

State Benefits (9 Viewing)
Anything and everything to do with state benefits.


If you think about it the JA should not allow you to lead a normal life. But yes you should be able to live on it as you cull any surplus spending.

stuff like satellite TV , fags / drink

many schools will allow you to pay less if you can prove hardship,

Bottom line is you aren't going to starve

If things were bad
you'd be growing some food in the back garden
taking in lodgers or language students
walking the kids to school

compared to what previous generations went through this recession is a walk in the park


Look on the bright side , think of all the quality time you get with the kids


And yes I'm really pissed off that it costs people without jobs twice as much to put out a bin as someone who can write it off against income tax :mad: :mad:

flames

I work full-time yet after i pay rent, bills, travel etc i have to live on 36 euro a week and thats for food, clothes school etc etc i'm a single mum with 3 kids so i think yes you can live on jobseekers allowance

Stinicker

flames wrote: »

I work full-time yet after i pay rent, bills, travel etc i have to live on 36 euro a week and thats for food, clothes school etc etc i'm a single mum with 3 kids so i think yes you can live on jobseekers allowance

Good for you flames, times are not so easy yet you still trundle on, I think it is a disgrace that people working full time like yourself are left in a far worse situation than those living on welfare. Because you are working you probably don't qualify for a medical card or rent allowance. We need a massive reevaluation of our social welfare system I think.

Nehaxak

Stinicker wrote: »

We need a massive reevaluation of our social welfare system I think.

No, we need a massive re-evaluation of our still stupidly high costs of living and poor wages that you're meant to get by on. That and people need to stop being stupid with their money and getting themselves into debts they know damn well they shouldn't have done in the first place.

tatli_lokma

Stinicker wrote: »

Because you are working you probably don't qualify for a medical card or rent allowance.

you can still apply for a full medical card if you work - its means tested, but you are not automatically exempt just because you work. At the very least in the situation flames outlined with only €36 disposable income and 3 kids you would be almost guaranteed a doctor only card, and very likely to get a full card.

bryaner

flames wrote: »

I work full-time yet after i pay rent, bills, travel etc i have to live on 36 euro a week and thats for food, clothes school etc etc i'm a single mum with 3 kids so i think yes you can live on jobseekers allowance

Ehh I hope your getting your full FIS entitlements for the three kidos

bryaner

Nehaxak wrote: »

No, we need a massive re-evaluation of our still stupidly high costs of living and poor wages that you're meant to get by on. That and people need to stop being stupid with their money and getting themselves into debts they know damn well they shouldn't have done in the first place.

Must feel great having remorse free debt!

flames

bryaner wrote: »

Ehh I hope your getting your full FIS entitlements for the three kidos

Nope because my oldest is 18 i am not entitled to anything for her they even cut her off the child benefit even though she is still in alternative education (she has a disability but it's not a disability you can see so i never went down the disability route, i never wanted her to grow up being classed as disabled when there is so many more out there much worse than she is)(thankfully they pay her travel costs), so they only class me as having 2 children, they say i am 26 euro over thier limits, they don't take into account how much is paid out in rent, bills etc etc...

I don't have a car (can't afford one) i live an hours walk away from the train station so we(me and 2 of the kids) do that walk every morning and evening even though i have a back problem...

And before someone jumps in and tells me to move closer to the train station i would if i could afford to save up a months rent deposit and a months rent in advance (which might take a few years,)(a little old car would cost less) and the local council have said i could be on thier waiting list for 8 years....

But i am looking for an evening job as well so fingers crossed, things can only get better :-)

Mrs OBumble

alyuciao wrote: »

So the bills that are necessary to be paid are

Car insurance (Over 40, 1st time insurer)
Motorbike insurance 350cc (as above)
Gas
Electricity
Phone / Internet bundle
TV license
2 x mobile phones
Bin collections
Water rates
School books
School Uniforms

and anything else that I've forgotten

Food! ... and cleaning/hygiene products
House and contents insurance
Some kind of recreation (even E5 for icecreams etc once a week can make the family feel a lot better about life)
Doctors bills

alyuciao

There ya go.... typical bloke..... I forgot the food

Ok so the JSA brings in 384.7 pw

Food (for a family of 4) 200 pw
Utilities ( for want of a better word ) 50 pw
That would work out at 400 every 2 months

That's the Necessary food and the essential bills covered.

That leaves around 134.7 for schools and emergencies.

Have I got my figures right or wrong ?

flames

According to MABS a family of 4 should be able to live on a food bill of €100 a week or less, I've tried this and the only way i can see it happening is if you grow your own veg and herbs and maybe have a pig and cow out the back and maybe a nice little spring lamb too lol, I think MABS need to go shopping and find out excatly how costly shopping for a family of 4 really is..

Mrs OBumble

flames wrote: »

According to MABS a family of 4 should be able to live on a food bill of €100 a week or less, I've tried this and the only way i can see it happening is if you grow your own veg and herbs and maybe have a pig and cow out the back and maybe a nice little spring lamb too lol, I think MABS need to go shopping and find out excatly how costly shopping for a family of 4 really is..

I'm shopping for two adults on about E22 each per week. And we live well, too. I could get it down further if I tried.

It's all about knowing which supermarket each item is cheapest in, and visiting at least two or three each week. And not taking any "but I don't like that" nonsense from the kids.

Breakfast, in particular, is a meal where self-discipline is makes a difference: a packet of rolled oats that will feed two for a week costs 38c from Lidl. I used to hate porridge, but have grown to rather like it. Necessity and all.

Capt'n Midnight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_history In 1907, the Harvester decision was handed down in Australia. It established a 'living wage' for a man, his wife and two children to "live in frugal comfort".

frugal comfort

check the phone internet bundle, you both have phones , you may be able to drop to a lower package, make sure you have the proper friends/free calls bundle on the mobiles, I went for free calls to mobiles instead of free texts

are both the car and motorbike essential ?

you can save money on the bin by recycling like crazy and squashing it - it's amazing how many times you can squash another full bag into the bit

tatli_lokma

JustMary wrote: »

I'm shopping for two adults on about E22 each per week. And we live well, too. I could get it down further if I tried.

It's all about knowing which supermarket each item is cheapest in, and visiting at least two or three each week. And not taking any "but I don't like that" nonsense from the kids.

Breakfast, in particular, is a meal where self-discipline is makes a difference: a packet of rolled oats that will feed two for a week costs 38c from Lidl. I used to hate porridge, but have grown to rather like it. Necessity and all.

Whilst I agree that generally most of us could save more than we realise, and most of our food spending is out of habit and convenience, in terms of saving money, you have to weigh up the cost of going to several different supermarkets against the potential savings. We used to shop in Tesco for x,y,z and Lidl for a, b,c. When you factor in petrol then sometimes the saving we had wasn't much or most times nil.

Also, I've noticed that a lot of the cheaper items are much more full of salt, preservatives, enhancers, MSG, etc than slightly dearer brands. There have been bundles of studies in the UK showing that a lot of people on lower income have diets that are particularly poor because in order to save money, people are buying the cheaper brands not realising that they are much more full of crap. For eg - some of the cheaper brands of bread are full of additives - I mean its not natural for a loaf of bread to last a week! A more expensive bread will go off much quicker. If you are on a tight budget and don't want to be throwing bread away you'll buy the cheap stuff, but its incredibly bad for you. same goes for meat products - a lot of the cheaper stuff is full of fillers and fat.

Sometimes you just have to spend more to feed decent quality to your family - its a fact. The only way to avoid it is to cook everything from scratch and do away with jars of pasta sauce etc (great if you have time), or buy the cheaper quality foods, which will undoubtedly be full of crap.
Its tough for a mother on a restricted income to feed her child decent quality stuff, so I do appreciate that its not always as easy as it seems.

Slydice

so this might be completely unhelpful but I wrote down a smattering of thoughts thinking I could whip it into a proper post.

then I figured it might take a year to two to explain all the bits so I decided not to.

here's the smattering of thoughts in case it might help at all:

Actual needs:
=============
- Water Rates
- Food
- GAS
- Electricity
- Bin Collection
- School Books
- School Shoes and Clothing
- Non-school Shoes and Clothing
- Stuff to keep yourselves and house clean

Maybe an eircom telephone but no mobiles. Only for incoming calls, no outgoing unless it is to help get a job.

384.7 * 4 = 1538.8 and add child benefit of 300 = 1838.8.

So set aside €600 per month on food and buy cheap but as healthy as possible.

That leaves €1238.8 per month

Set aside €200 per month for all kinds of shoes and clothes which is €2,400 or €600 per family member per year. Again buy cheap but try and get the best quality available for the price.

On the dole means time available to shop around. Also being out of the house shopping around means less electricity/heating being used.

so that leaves 1038.8 per month.

Unsure how much a family of 4 pays for bin charges, guessing €150 per month max.

so that leaves 888.8 per month.

with electricity only powering cooking, maybe a radio, lights, clocks, maybe heat, let's be generous and budget 300 per month.

so that leaves 588.8

how much can water cost? Let's say 50 per month max

so that leaves 538.8
let's be generous and say 100 per month on gas (but I doubt it'd be that high)

so that leaves 488.8

let's allow €100 per month for school books. would kids need more than €600 each for books each year? that would be more expensive than college books I buy

so that leave 388.8

stuff to keep the house clean... like a brush or mop and cleaning stuff like cif/jif... max €100 per month

so that leaves 288.8

Lovely, that's some money to use for transport to/from town etc to try and get a job.

It might even pay for a tv & licence but not any extra channels than the free ones you can currently pick up.

don't even think about the pub bud

Sleepy

Your calculations are a little out Slydice:

384.7 * 4 only allows for 48 weeks in a year so there's actually another €1538.8 over the course of the year.

You're also being very conservative on your estimates - we spend about €400/€500 a month to feed a family of 4 but that includes at least one take-away a week and baby formula / nappies etc.

A family on the dole would be entitled to a Bin Charges waiver from the CC, we don't have water charges (yet), there's a back to school allowance to help out with children's school books (which shouldn't come to more than €300 or so for both children) and €100 a month is extravegent on cleaning stuff - I think we spend about €10 - €15 a month in Aldi and that could be reduced by doign the washing up instead of using a dishwasher.

Sleepy

Cincikchick wrote: »

Sometimes you just have to spend more to feed decent quality to your family - its a fact. The only way to avoid it is to cook everything from scratch and do away with jars of pasta sauce etc (great if you have time), or buy the cheaper quality foods, which will undoubtedly be full of crap.

And shouldn't someone on the dole have enough time to cook properly?

I can get enough good quality meat in a local butchers to form the basis of dinner for 4 adults for 5 days for €20 at the moment. Vegetables are cheap. Something like a healthy spaghetti bolognese to cover 4 adults can be made for about €2 a head* (assuming you already have basil, oregano, pepper etc. and if you don't they're a once in a blue moon purchase anyway)

*Prices from Tesco website:

Tesco Healthy Living Steak Mince 500G - €4.60
Tesco Value Chopped Tomatoes 400G - 54c x 2
M.Value Irish Mushrooms 250G - 99c
Red Peppers Loose Each Class 1 - 99c
Tesco Value Spaghetti 500G - 49c

Total Cost: €8.15

tatli_lokma

Sleepy wrote: »

And shouldn't someone on the dole have enough time to cook properly?

on your high horse much?? :rolleyes:
not every one on a low income is on the dole - in fact many people are working and getting less than some on the dole. Flames mentioned that she works F/t, has a few kids and has to manage on less than €40 per week when all is told. People like her don't always have the luxury to stay at home and make meals from scratch. Likewise a lot of people are working but on minimum wage - by the time they pay out all their living costs before food, they haven't got much left. They don't have the time or the money to use petrol driving from supermarket to supermarket to save €10. Its a false economy often to drive to several supermarkets for different items.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Sleepy wrote: »

And shouldn't someone on the dole have enough time to cook properly?

What an ignorant statement...

OP, you should have more than enough, but you won't have a "normal" life. If you cut out the non essentials, then you can live on that amount no problems. The emergencies one might encounter may be the problem though.

Shelflife

Agustin Yellow Pot wrote: »

What an ignorant statement...

OP, you should have more than enough, but you won't have a "normal" life. If you cut out the non essentials, then you can live on that amount no problems. The emergencies one might encounter may be the problem though.

To be fair it seems a reasonable and logical statement to make, the poster was merely saying that it doesnt cost alot to make a dinner from scratch, they werent been smart.

you can easily make good quality dinners from cheaper cuts of meat, even if you cant shop around by buying the offers and being sensible you can cook quality dinners for very low per head prices. it just takes a little time and a bit of thought.

alyuciao

Luckily my wife and I are dab hands at the furnace. We both enjoy cooking and make most of our meals from scratch.

Once you get used to cooking, meals take next to no time to prepare, also if it's a curry or a spag bol, we usually cook in bulk and freeze the excess

We do use a lot of fresh veg, but cereals, bread, milk and rice seem to be the biggest cost for us.

It's the bills that I can never seem to keep down. I even have a compost heap to keep down on the amount of bins that we use. Hoping to plant some potatoes this week.

tatli_lokma

unfortunately for some people, regardless of how hard they try they just cannot cook! I have a family member like that - Gordon Ramsey himself could stand beside her and instruct her all the way, and she would make a mess of it! she could burn water! Last time she made Spag bol, she forgot about the pasta, the water all boiled off and what was left was a congealed lump of spaghetti in the end of the pot, the bottom of which was burned to a crisp! I know its hard to believe, right? I mean who can't cook Spag bol???? :eek:
When she cooks she actually wastes money because guaranteed something will go wrong, its cheaper to get a take away! lol:D

in all seriousness though, plenty of us could save a lot more money on food if we were more conscientious of what we buy and more so, what we waste. My hubby is a great man for making meals out of the reminants of something else - we have some weird concoctions at times, but usually its always nice, we'd never go hungry thats for sure. Before we lived together I was a divil for wasting things - I bought what I felt like having, not what I needed. Now we don't buy veg until we literally need it - we've even used up brussel sprouts in a tomato stew type thing! sounds really weird but it was actually really nice! If that'd been left to me I would have gone to the shop and bought something to make dinner, but instead my hubby used what was already in the house.

I think we have all just got a bit too used to convenience. But I do appreciate it is that much harder if you work f/t and have kids - sometimes you just don't have the time to make something from scratch and opt for the fish fingers and beans for the sake of speed and sanity.